Lying bar-steward Recruitment Consultants
Discussion
Chaps,
I am looking for (contract) work.
I am looking using jobserve.
The quality of some of the recruitment consultants on there really needs to be seen to be believed. They too often know nothing about the roles they are recruiting for, and are willing to tell you things which are blatently untrue.
I am looking for work in an odd bit of consultancy. I know that there are very few people out there with the experience and qualifications I have. I can look at job descriptions on JS, and tell exactly what stage the client has got to in their project, who their principal supplier is and usually the client as well (yes, the world is that small). And yet, the recruitment consultant is happy to dismiss me because I don't know enough about it.
"Hello, I am an expert on EDRMS."
"Oh, do you know anything about ESCR?"
"ESCR is a very small part of EDRM, and I have over 5 years experience of this."
"Oh, sorry, we need someone who knows about ESCR".
Two other irritations today.
1. I applied for job last week. CV went forward, along with one other. RC calls me back today "Sorry, they liked you but decided to fill the post internally." Fair enough, thinks I. Quick look on JS 4 hours later, and exactly the same role is up there again, with someone else from the same recruitment consultancy as the contact point.
2. I applied for a job earlier on this week. I sent my CV in. RC called me this morning saying "They like you, I'll arrange an interview." She then calls me back this evening saying "Oh, sorry, they interviewed someone else for another job this morning, and gave him the one they wanted you for as well." OK, fair enough it may have really happened like this, in which case my beef is with the client, but it still annoys me.
There, rant over. Thanks for listening.
Oli.
Edited to add: If there are any PH'ers who are recruitment consultants, I am sure you are lovely reliable people who wouldn't dream of lying to a potential candidate. There. Just so I don't upset anyone.
>> Edited by zcacogp on Wednesday 25th May 19:16
I am looking for (contract) work.
I am looking using jobserve.
The quality of some of the recruitment consultants on there really needs to be seen to be believed. They too often know nothing about the roles they are recruiting for, and are willing to tell you things which are blatently untrue.
I am looking for work in an odd bit of consultancy. I know that there are very few people out there with the experience and qualifications I have. I can look at job descriptions on JS, and tell exactly what stage the client has got to in their project, who their principal supplier is and usually the client as well (yes, the world is that small). And yet, the recruitment consultant is happy to dismiss me because I don't know enough about it.
"Hello, I am an expert on EDRMS."
"Oh, do you know anything about ESCR?"
"ESCR is a very small part of EDRM, and I have over 5 years experience of this."
"Oh, sorry, we need someone who knows about ESCR".
Two other irritations today.
1. I applied for job last week. CV went forward, along with one other. RC calls me back today "Sorry, they liked you but decided to fill the post internally." Fair enough, thinks I. Quick look on JS 4 hours later, and exactly the same role is up there again, with someone else from the same recruitment consultancy as the contact point.
2. I applied for a job earlier on this week. I sent my CV in. RC called me this morning saying "They like you, I'll arrange an interview." She then calls me back this evening saying "Oh, sorry, they interviewed someone else for another job this morning, and gave him the one they wanted you for as well." OK, fair enough it may have really happened like this, in which case my beef is with the client, but it still annoys me.
There, rant over. Thanks for listening.
Oli.
Edited to add: If there are any PH'ers who are recruitment consultants, I am sure you are lovely reliable people who wouldn't dream of lying to a potential candidate. There. Just so I don't upset anyone.
>> Edited by zcacogp on Wednesday 25th May 19:16
I know what you mean... Been job hunting since January, and I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the average quality of service from agencies. If they can't even do the simple stuff right like giving your CV a good read through so they don't end up asking you a bunch of questions that are clearly answered on said CV, or calling you back when they promise to do so, then you have to wonder what else they're getting wrong without you knowing about it.
C'mon guys and gals, it's peoples lives you're messing with here, stop messing us around and do your jobs!
C'mon guys and gals, it's peoples lives you're messing with here, stop messing us around and do your jobs!
zcacogp said:
Chaps,
I am looking for work in an odd bit of consultancy. I know that there are very few people out there with the experience and qualifications I have. I can look at job descriptions on JS, and tell exactly what stage the client has got to in their project, who their principal supplier is and usually the client as well (yes, the world is that small). >> Edited by zcacogp on Wednesday 25th May 19:16
So why not get on the phone and do it yourself, you dont need a RC to pay you weekly there are plemty of middle men who will chase your bills for you?
BTW I'm in the business and I wouldn't dispute for a second that 90% of my industry is populated with halfwits.
Mr Chim Girl is in the same position as you, although looking for another perm job. He's also using Jobserve and has found that many of the adverts shown are for jobs that generally fall into three categories, i)they don't exist, ii) have been filled already or iii)the closing date has already passed. Don't get me started on the amount of bull these people come out with. I accept that 'creative embellishment' is common practice, but some of the stuff that some of them come out with is suitable for Jackanory! I don't subscribe to the idea that all recruiters are bad, but there seems to be a large number of agents who are giving the industry a poor reputation.
So, if anyone has any sensible advice both he and I would be very very grateful to hear it. Or, if you're a great recruitment agent looking for a top notch candidate, please shout up!
So, if anyone has any sensible advice both he and I would be very very grateful to hear it. Or, if you're a great recruitment agent looking for a top notch candidate, please shout up!
miniman said:
Mate of mine went for a meeting with a recruitment consultant yesterday to discuss potential jobs etc. Turned out to be a one-man-band selling "make yourself more employable" training for £3k
I would have reported them to Trading Standards for that sounds like false Advertising !
One day I'd quite like to try IT contracting. The style and type of work would suit me, I think.
However I'm rapidly being put off by tales like this AND the fact I don't have one particular specialisation in the field of IT.
I assume there are people out there who have good experiences with it?
How "specialised" do you need to be? eg for a tech architect type role
However I'm rapidly being put off by tales like this AND the fact I don't have one particular specialisation in the field of IT.
I assume there are people out there who have good experiences with it?
How "specialised" do you need to be? eg for a tech architect type role
I'm getting fed up with halfwits who only know how to do a keyword search (or of they're slightly technical, grep) of CVs but can't be arsed to read the wider context to see if you're actually suitable.
Or the
wits that e-mail everyone technical they have to see if they'd like to do a 20 grand VB job. So there's me, 34, with a couple of degrees
and security writ through my CV as if blackpool rock. Grrrr.
My e-mail replies are becoming increasingly sarcastic, especially as my contract has gone (fairly nicely) full time now. 16 miles from my front door too.
Or the
wits that e-mail everyone technical they have to see if they'd like to do a 20 grand VB job. So there's me, 34, with a couple of degrees and security writ through my CV as if blackpool rock. Grrrr.
My e-mail replies are becoming increasingly sarcastic, especially as my contract has gone (fairly nicely) full time now. 16 miles from my front door too.
john_p said:
How "specialised" do you need to be? eg for a tech architect type role
Put it this way: If you are recruiting for a TA for a specific project, you want a specialist who has a strong track record of whatever you are looking for. You do need to specialise.
Of course, if you can demonstrate being a VERY good TA in a particular 'general' field - applications / infrastructure / security then that can be your 'broad' specialism
well I have to say I think about 80-90% of recruitment agency's are proper SH1T!
I won't go into too much detail, but I was forced into accepting a job on a given day... I am a strong willed chap and he was pissing me of so much I just said yes so it worked after a good few hours of if you don't accept now you won't get the job, it's so great there I have 6 other guys working there blah blah blah!
Obviously lying to get me to accept job, then as I already knew, he delayed my mega urgent start date... for a week! then as I knew when I started spoke to the guys recruiting, there was no pressure from them, they wanted me, so were happy to wait. WHAT A C"$T the guy was...
Just to add insult to injury then he changes there tune from you'll be paid weekly, to your going to be paid monthly. Then to my surprise I get a email from someone with a different surname - he changed his name! How dodgy are some of these idiots!!!
hope everyone looking for work has some luck soon, and as for IT specalists I would question how much you need to know, as I've bumped into some right monkeys I wouldn't employ to clean the floors (have to much respect for cleaners) doing some pretty important jobs in the past!
I won't go into too much detail, but I was forced into accepting a job on a given day... I am a strong willed chap and he was pissing me of so much I just said yes so it worked after a good few hours of if you don't accept now you won't get the job, it's so great there I have 6 other guys working there blah blah blah!
Obviously lying to get me to accept job, then as I already knew, he delayed my mega urgent start date... for a week! then as I knew when I started spoke to the guys recruiting, there was no pressure from them, they wanted me, so were happy to wait. WHAT A C"$T the guy was...
Just to add insult to injury then he changes there tune from you'll be paid weekly, to your going to be paid monthly. Then to my surprise I get a email from someone with a different surname - he changed his name! How dodgy are some of these idiots!!!
hope everyone looking for work has some luck soon, and as for IT specalists I would question how much you need to know, as I've bumped into some right monkeys I wouldn't employ to clean the floors (have to much respect for cleaners) doing some pretty important jobs in the past!
UpTheIron said:
Of course, if you can demonstrate being a VERY good TA in a particular 'general' field - applications / infrastructure / security then that can be your 'broad' specialism
The other question is, what do you define a technical architect as ? As I believe this is the role I currently hold in my company .. but I might be wrong
zcacogp said:In my experience, both of these mean there wasn't a job in the first place. The recruitment company just needs more CV's. I have seen loads of jobs that look ideal "vb + drinking beer + 'avin' a laugh urgently required"... great thinks you - send it t'CV. Only to be told Jobs gone but we'll keep you on file. Just means that when another job comes in, they get first pick of the people rather than having to advertise, wait for replies, sift replies etc.
1. I applied for job last week. CV went forward, along with one other. RC calls me back today "Sorry, they liked you but decided to fill the post internally." Fair enough, thinks I. Quick look on JS 4 hours later, and exactly the same role is up there again, with someone else from the same recruitment consultancy as the contact point.
2. I applied for a job earlier on this week. I sent my CV in. RC called me this morning saying "They like you, I'll arrange an interview." She then calls me back this evening saying "Oh, sorry, they interviewed someone else for another job this morning, and gave him the one they wanted you for as well." OK, fair enough it may have really happened like this, in which case my beef is with the client, but it still annoys me.
My advice - get over it. I don't mean to sound harsh but true "recruitment consultants" are few and far between. What you mostly come across are sales-men (sales people!). To me, recruitment constulants interview you, guage your skills and requirements and find roles that suit both you and the client. Sales-men see a key-word (ie VB) find 30 people looking for work with VB on their CV and then push through the 5-10 that look most likely to get interviews/take the job. After all, they are paid commission, they don't give a shit whether its the right job - just whether they can get the money for a bit of charlie for the weekend (OK a generalisation - but it is in my experience. No skills generally required to be an agency bod)
In my experience, a good agency is McGregor Boyle - they specialise in Investment Banking (which is my area) but when I was looking (albeit permanent) they were very good. Took time to understand what I wanted and only ever approached me with jobs that fitted.
The more you deal with agencies, the more you'll get to know who to go with. One thing is for sure, DON'T be pressurised by any of them - I am a fairly strong character but still have been victim of this. ALL they want is their commission - so they'll play on your weaknesses like any other high-pressure salesman. Just be aware of this.
No offence to genuine recruitment consultants - you guys are worth your weight. It's the 90% of 2w@ts that make up the rest of the industry that ruin it. Basically - if they sound like a "wide-boy" they generally are!
If you have specific questions about a particular agency, feel free to mail me - if I know anything/have any experience - I'll certainly let you know. I also have a number of friends who contract so I'm sure between us, we'll have some ideas!
Cheers,
Phil
Marshy said:
I'm getting fed up with halfwits who only know how to do a keyword search (or of they're slightly technical, grep) of CVs but can't be arsed to read the wider context to see if you're actually suitable.
Or the
and security writ through my CV as if blackpool rock. Grrrr.
My e-mail replies are becoming increasingly sarcastic, especially as my contract has gone (fairly nicely) full time now. 16 miles from my front door too.
Chim part deaux?
Prologue: I appreciate that there are good, genuine, professional Recruitment Agents out there. I am not talking about you. Unfortunately, like the entire IT market, you are being flooded out by charlatans and geezers who "can do a bit of that, like". Sadly, they end up getting a new GT3 from the year's bonus. 
Here's someone else who is mid 30s, 2 Degrees, and shares a common opinion of agencies. *Wave*. Boy oh boy, I'm glad it's not just me who is suffering from the actions of these people.
Hint to anyone who is thinking of contracting: Don't ever expect to go back permanent. Once the agents see "contracting" on your CV, they will assume you are used to earning 500/day and will leave your new permanent role within a month.
I have fairly recently moved my search over to Embedded Software roles. The reason being that 12 years experience of IT gets me £15-18k and competition with the "been on a course, I know everyfink about compu'ers" market, but 2 years of programming 'C' and assembler seems to put me on the £25-35k scale. Madness. This is another of those markets which is pretty small, and I too have similar observations to the previous writers:
"Go forth and multiply"
Day 1. A job (often trawled from a company web site or newspaper) appears from Agent 'A' on Jobserve at £(offered rate plus £1k).
The other agencies work out who this job is with, have a look at their web site (or ring up Agent 'A' and pose as a candidate) and....
Day 2. Miraculously, 2 more agents have a spookily similar job. Salary is now £(offered rate plus 1k) to (offered rate plus 5k) "depending on experience".
Day 3. Golly, it's a veritable flood of roles now. Half a dozen of the blighters, offering anything up to double the salary, car (no thanks, I'll take the allowance), training and 35 days holiday. None of which the employer has promised, but the agency rely on you being "hooked" when the employer offer you the job at a lower rate than you expected with no perks.
"Looking after your best interests"
When a RA phones you, and asks if you have applied for any other roles recently, they are ostensibly making sure they don't duplicate a submission (without 'enhancing' your CV anyway) but are also looking to see who is recruiting, and therefore may be worthwhile pimping a bunch of CVs to.
"Compu'er sez no.... *cough*"
Rather than look for the best person, RAs seem to look for the person who has fewest reasons to say "no" to. If you don't have the right letters in your CV (in IT support that's generally MCSE ) then it's straight in the bin.
"I have a new role, you may be interested in, it seems a great match"
Translated: "I have just got moved into this job, I'm going through the old agent's CV stash, trying to match them to jobs we can't find a match for." I have had this twice in the last 3 months. On both occasions they didn't realise Embedded 'C' is a different field to Visual C++ and C#.
I'm afraid my advice is only the same as before, thats how it is, get over it, learn, move on. There is new legislation about what RAs are supposed to do, but this (inevitably) just seems to have made our lives harder, with more stringent conditions on proof of identity (of course nobody in IT has access to a scanner, colour printer and Photoshop...).
Having said this, what I hate most is the ultra-convincing enthusiastic "they love your CV, and will get back to you" which makes you think you stand a chance, followed by *nothing*. We are still humans and it does get to you after a while. Why can't these people just tell the truth now and then?
Mike
P.S. Oli. At least they got back to you, it seems routine now not to contact any failed candidates at all, they leave it up to you to phone them when nothing happens.
P.P.S. Yearning for an Ur-Quattro. Me too
P.P(etc) If you have the skills and facilities, build a small (private) web page with an extended version of your CV on and add the URL to your "real" CV for the employer to see. That way the agency can't edit your submission (and oh boy, have I seen some creative editing). All they can do is leave off the URL.
Here's someone else who is mid 30s, 2 Degrees, and shares a common opinion of agencies. *Wave*. Boy oh boy, I'm glad it's not just me who is suffering from the actions of these people.
Hint to anyone who is thinking of contracting: Don't ever expect to go back permanent. Once the agents see "contracting" on your CV, they will assume you are used to earning 500/day and will leave your new permanent role within a month.
I have fairly recently moved my search over to Embedded Software roles. The reason being that 12 years experience of IT gets me £15-18k and competition with the "been on a course, I know everyfink about compu'ers" market, but 2 years of programming 'C' and assembler seems to put me on the £25-35k scale. Madness. This is another of those markets which is pretty small, and I too have similar observations to the previous writers:
"Go forth and multiply"
Day 1. A job (often trawled from a company web site or newspaper) appears from Agent 'A' on Jobserve at £(offered rate plus £1k).
The other agencies work out who this job is with, have a look at their web site (or ring up Agent 'A' and pose as a candidate) and....
Day 2. Miraculously, 2 more agents have a spookily similar job. Salary is now £(offered rate plus 1k) to (offered rate plus 5k) "depending on experience".
Day 3. Golly, it's a veritable flood of roles now. Half a dozen of the blighters, offering anything up to double the salary, car (no thanks, I'll take the allowance), training and 35 days holiday. None of which the employer has promised, but the agency rely on you being "hooked" when the employer offer you the job at a lower rate than you expected with no perks.
"Looking after your best interests"
When a RA phones you, and asks if you have applied for any other roles recently, they are ostensibly making sure they don't duplicate a submission (without 'enhancing' your CV anyway) but are also looking to see who is recruiting, and therefore may be worthwhile pimping a bunch of CVs to.
"Compu'er sez no.... *cough*"
Rather than look for the best person, RAs seem to look for the person who has fewest reasons to say "no" to. If you don't have the right letters in your CV (in IT support that's generally MCSE ) then it's straight in the bin.
"I have a new role, you may be interested in, it seems a great match"
Translated: "I have just got moved into this job, I'm going through the old agent's CV stash, trying to match them to jobs we can't find a match for." I have had this twice in the last 3 months. On both occasions they didn't realise Embedded 'C' is a different field to Visual C++ and C#.
I'm afraid my advice is only the same as before, thats how it is, get over it, learn, move on. There is new legislation about what RAs are supposed to do, but this (inevitably) just seems to have made our lives harder, with more stringent conditions on proof of identity (of course nobody in IT has access to a scanner, colour printer and Photoshop...).
Having said this, what I hate most is the ultra-convincing enthusiastic "they love your CV, and will get back to you" which makes you think you stand a chance, followed by *nothing*. We are still humans and it does get to you after a while. Why can't these people just tell the truth now and then?
Mike
P.S. Oli. At least they got back to you, it seems routine now not to contact any failed candidates at all, they leave it up to you to phone them when nothing happens.
P.P.S. Yearning for an Ur-Quattro. Me too
P.P(etc) If you have the skills and facilities, build a small (private) web page with an extended version of your CV on and add the URL to your "real" CV for the employer to see. That way the agency can't edit your submission (and oh boy, have I seen some creative editing). All they can do is leave off the URL.
Blimey! That was a full and quick response! Thanks everyone for writing back – I really thought that I was somewhere at the bottom of the heap with regard to this – it’s very heartening to know that there are others who are similarly disaffected and hacked off! Maybe I have hit upon a fairly common raw nerve …
Cotty,
Yes. No-one ever fails to say “you can send us your CV so that … “
Miniman,
I’d go along with John75 with a grumble for false advertising. But I suspect that sort of thing happens quite a lot …
Twister, Marshy, (Mr)Chim-Girl,
Pleased to know that you are in the same position. No, not “Pleased”, but knowing there is someone else out there going through the same is heartening. I hope your searches go better than mine. As Zad said, “Boy oh boy, I'm glad it's not just me who is suffering from the actions of these people.”
Chim-Girl,
I quite agree with the “Creative Embellishment” that happens. But, if you talk to a RC, they swear blind that they embellish nothing, it’s always the applicants who embellish their CV’s. However, I refuse to do this, maybe because I am a bad liar, maybe because I will act with integrity. The trouble is, if my CV goes to the client along with 2 others, and they both have less experience but more bullsh1t, I am going to lose out because of my integrity. Is this therefore a bad thing, that I should miss out because I am trying to do the right thing? I don’t know but I won’t lie to them.
Xm5er,
Yes, making direct contact has to be the way to go. I am rapidly concluding that good contacts in various organisations are worth much more than a world’s worth of half-witted RC’s. And I am striving to make as many of these good contacts as I possibly can. Interested that you are in the industry … I should probably put the other point of view in that I have come across one RC who I would rate as excellent. Honest, direct, polite, considerate, they will tell it as it is, and really do work on my behalf. One in particular springs to mind as being very good. Why can’t they all be more like that one?
John p
Go contracting if you have other sources of income. I am lucky in that Mrs zcacogp works, and I’m not going to starve. Drop me a line via PM if you want more advice.
Phil chim-knee
Thanks. I’ll not name and shame consultancies here. Thanks for the tip about Mcgregor Boyle. I have seen jobs rippling through Recruitment Agencies as you describe – and you can be sure that 3 out of 4 is having a laugh.
Zad
*waves back*. Not 100% sure about not being able to go perm again. I have a perm interview next week. When there are lots of opportunities out there, every large company realises that in order to make the most of them, they need to hoover up the contractors in the market and make money off their backs. So, if you are a good contractor, with good experience, I think that perm jobs will come your way as well. But I do agree that the transition would be a difficult one.
I quite agree about RC’s only being able to match acronyms. They have no understanding whatsoever of what they are talking about, and to anyone who has even the faintest inkling of the subject in hand, this is blatently obvious. And highly irritating. They sound thicker than a whale sandwich, and their greasy-nosed sycophantic smarmyness really grates. Their grasp of proper use of the English language leaves much to be desired (when will they grasp that using the word “Yourself” instead of “You” does not sound respectful, polite or educated, it sounds like a BR ticket collector trying to overcharge you for a return ticket and pocketing the difference.) I have a personal opinion that they use KY jelly instead of hair-gel in order to get up people’s arses better.
They get back to me simply because I hound them and they need me to stop.
I’ll afford that UR Quattro one day. When I get a job …
Private website is the next way to go. I have a domain, I just need to get to grips with making it work.
I guess the better way to look at this is to say that I am running a business, and I need to work on my marketing. The current strategy (RC’s) is not working, I need to think of a better strategy. Let’s keep that in mind, and see if it helps.
Oli.
Cotty,
Yes. No-one ever fails to say “you can send us your CV so that … “
Miniman,
I’d go along with John75 with a grumble for false advertising. But I suspect that sort of thing happens quite a lot …
Twister, Marshy, (Mr)Chim-Girl,
Pleased to know that you are in the same position. No, not “Pleased”, but knowing there is someone else out there going through the same is heartening. I hope your searches go better than mine. As Zad said, “Boy oh boy, I'm glad it's not just me who is suffering from the actions of these people.”
Chim-Girl,
I quite agree with the “Creative Embellishment” that happens. But, if you talk to a RC, they swear blind that they embellish nothing, it’s always the applicants who embellish their CV’s. However, I refuse to do this, maybe because I am a bad liar, maybe because I will act with integrity. The trouble is, if my CV goes to the client along with 2 others, and they both have less experience but more bullsh1t, I am going to lose out because of my integrity. Is this therefore a bad thing, that I should miss out because I am trying to do the right thing? I don’t know but I won’t lie to them.
Xm5er,
Yes, making direct contact has to be the way to go. I am rapidly concluding that good contacts in various organisations are worth much more than a world’s worth of half-witted RC’s. And I am striving to make as many of these good contacts as I possibly can. Interested that you are in the industry … I should probably put the other point of view in that I have come across one RC who I would rate as excellent. Honest, direct, polite, considerate, they will tell it as it is, and really do work on my behalf. One in particular springs to mind as being very good. Why can’t they all be more like that one?
John p
Go contracting if you have other sources of income. I am lucky in that Mrs zcacogp works, and I’m not going to starve. Drop me a line via PM if you want more advice.
Phil chim-knee
Thanks. I’ll not name and shame consultancies here. Thanks for the tip about Mcgregor Boyle. I have seen jobs rippling through Recruitment Agencies as you describe – and you can be sure that 3 out of 4 is having a laugh.
Zad
*waves back*. Not 100% sure about not being able to go perm again. I have a perm interview next week. When there are lots of opportunities out there, every large company realises that in order to make the most of them, they need to hoover up the contractors in the market and make money off their backs. So, if you are a good contractor, with good experience, I think that perm jobs will come your way as well. But I do agree that the transition would be a difficult one.
I quite agree about RC’s only being able to match acronyms. They have no understanding whatsoever of what they are talking about, and to anyone who has even the faintest inkling of the subject in hand, this is blatently obvious. And highly irritating. They sound thicker than a whale sandwich, and their greasy-nosed sycophantic smarmyness really grates. Their grasp of proper use of the English language leaves much to be desired (when will they grasp that using the word “Yourself” instead of “You” does not sound respectful, polite or educated, it sounds like a BR ticket collector trying to overcharge you for a return ticket and pocketing the difference.) I have a personal opinion that they use KY jelly instead of hair-gel in order to get up people’s arses better.
They get back to me simply because I hound them and they need me to stop.
I’ll afford that UR Quattro one day. When I get a job …
Private website is the next way to go. I have a domain, I just need to get to grips with making it work.
I guess the better way to look at this is to say that I am running a business, and I need to work on my marketing. The current strategy (RC’s) is not working, I need to think of a better strategy. Let’s keep that in mind, and see if it helps.
Oli.
john_p said:
Of course, if you can demonstrate being a VERY good TA in a particular 'general' field - applications / infrastructure / security then that can be your 'broad' specialism
The other question is, what do you define a technical architect as ? As I believe this is the role I currently hold in my company .. but I might be wrong
A TA is a programmer who talks a lot, but doesn't actually write any code.
Zad said:
I have fairly recently moved my search over to Embedded Software roles.
Ah, so THAT'S why I can't find any jobs, it's all you IT types coming in and nicking them all
Zad said:
2 years of programming 'C' and assembler seems to put me on the £25-35k scale. Madness.
Yeah, salaries tend to shoot up quite quickly in the embedded world, but the downside is that they then also tend to level off pretty quickly too - 6 years of low-level firmware and hardware design experience is still only good for 25-35K unless you happen to get lucky with one of the few companies who're prepared to offer over the odds for exceptional people.
Zad said:
None of which the employer has promised, but the agency rely on you being "hooked" when the employer offer you the job at a lower rate than you expected with no perks.
Yeah, been there, done that, walked away. I might be eager to get back to work, but I'm not going to be taken for a ride in the process. I know what I'm worth, I know how much wiggle-room I'm prepared to give a company when it comes to salaries and benefits, and if they still expect me to do the job for less then good luck to them finding some other mug who's happy to have their experience undervalued.
Zad said:
On both occasions they didn't realise Embedded 'C' is a different field to Visual C++ and C#.
Argggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! You can take it as read from that scream of anguish that I know *exactly* what you mean...
Zad said:
Having said this, what I hate most is the ultra-convincing enthusiastic "they love your CV, and will get back to you" which makes you think you stand a chance, followed by *nothing*.
If I believe one agency, I've been on the shortlist for a second interview for just over a month now, yet every time I call them to find out the latest the response is always the same - "oh, they're just running first interviews for a couple more candidates, they should be starting the second round soon, but don't worry, they've confirmed you're still on the shortlist" - and meanwhile I've just noticed the same vacancy being newly re-advertised with a 5K cut in the starting salary...
Zad said:
We are still humans and it does get to you after a while. Why can't these people just tell the truth now and then?
Exactly. As I said before, it's peoples lives they're playing with, maybe they should stop and think how they'd like to be treated if they were suddenly out of a job.
work in a city firm, and i've spent much of the morning dealing with them... my manager has dashed off to Wales leaving me to fend off some baying pimps.
one of their most annoying traits apart from constant pestering for names of colleagues, is that they send unsuitable candidates with next-to-zero knowledge of the specialist field we actually require (credit derivatives in this case).
P.S. why do they all wear those HUGE cufflinks?
twister said:
We are still humans and it does get to you after a while. Why can't these people just tell the truth now and then?
Exactly. As I said before, it's peoples lives they're playing with, maybe they should stop and think how they'd like to be treated if they were suddenly out of a job.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff