Chargecooler question.

[Skerd]

After all this talk of decreasing performance due to vanes breaking off the chargecooler impeller, I decided to have mine replaced today. After looking at the one they took out, there is NO WAY the vanes on mine could ever fall off. There are 10 short, rock solid (still bendable and pliable) 1/4" vanes that I could not get off with a chainsaw! This is after 56,000 miles and never a replacement. Did they improve them so replacement is not necessary for 1995? More importantly, did I just waste $ 700?

I also had a BOV from Moto-Concept installed. It does not make that "phhttt" noise, ever. Yes the engine is warmed up, yes I tested it under full boost, and yes they said they adjusted it correctly. Did I waste
another $ 300?

I trust my dealer completely, but does 3.5 and 5.5 hours labor, respectively, seem reasonable to install these.

Mike "from now on if it is not broke, don't fix it".

[adrianmugridge]

I replaced the chargecooler impellor after about 55,000 miles. The vains looked fine but it was leaking coolant (1-2 litres a week). The chargecooler was also hot to the touch. Since then, no coolant leak and a cold chargecooler. It took me several hours because i'd not done it before and I made a cock up of noting which way the spindle went back in. If you know what you are doing I would say it would take 1.5 hours. So, lets say £50/hour ( £75 ) and £50 for the parts, that's less than $200 !! I think you're been well and truely done.

Adrian Mugridge
www.adrianmugridge.co.uk

[Skerd]

Adrian:

Thanks for your input. My chargecooler thing was cool to the touch and no coolant was leaking anywhere.

I meant to say 5.5 hours for the impeller and 3.5 for the BOV, but the prices mentioned were correct.

Mike

[cnh1990]

What do you mean $700.00? the impeller rebuild kit costs $60.00 with the coolant and oil seals. Labor 2 hrs. Where does the $700 come from? The BOV kit is $160 from Marcus. with an 30 min. install and adjustment. Where does $300 come from? Yes they make a whoosh sound if vented to atmosphere. What product did you get? Do not like to anyone to get ripped. There is no way the impeller can last over 50K miles you have had your impeller replaced a little while ago.
Calvin 90 SE

[wbillybobw]

I just rebuilt my charge cooler pump about two weeks ago! the kit cost me $60.00 and about 3to 4 hrs labor, I could have done it in alot less time, but I was trying to do it from the side of the car. I finally gave up and climbed into the back hatch which was so much easier to get to. Mine had 28,000 miles on it and it was completely gone and leaking fluid. I did get a estimate from a very well known lotus shop here on the west coast and they said $200.00 total for parts and labor.

[Skerd]

Calvin:

This is what I mean.
Chargecooler impeller:
Labor 5.3 hours @ 86.00 = 455.80
Repair kit and shipping = 201.19
Environmental charge = 15.00
Sales tax = 39.42
Total 711.41

I am 100% certain it was never replaced before.

BOV:
Labor 3.5 @ 86.00 = 301.00
Miscellaneous parts = 10.94
Sales tax = 18.12
Total 330.06

This does not include the $ 160 cost
for the BOV itself.

Any other inputs (no pun intended)
would be appreciated.

Mike



>> Edited by Skerd on Thursday 26th September 02:11

[cnh1990]

You find yourself another dealer or learn to fix it yourself. There is no way anyone should pay that much. How can anyone markup a $60 rebuild kit to over $200 is beyond me. The labor/hr. is okay but the time spent is not good. For a rookie or hobbyist maybe, not for an experienced mechanic. Also how can anyone take so long to unclamp the hose between chargecooler and intake plenum, swap it with the T hose, insert the BOV in the T, yank off the purge line, insert the small T in the purge line and into the BOV actuator valve and give the valve adjuster one rotation is beyond me. 1 hour tops for even challenged. Also if he tried to hook up the purge line without the circ clip installed and pressed the valve head in, it is stuck. The only way to unstick the valve is remove the BOV from the T hose, remove the circ clip, rotate the valve adjuster to it's lowest possible psi setting and suck hard on the valve while pressing on the rubber stopper inside the BOV throat with one finger until it retracts. The BOV will unstick at this point. The most suction you can generate is about the 12 psi dump setting on the BOV. Don't ask how I know this as I am kind of embarassed to make such a rookie mistake as to try and install the purge hose with the circ clip off.
Calvin

[Skerd]

Calvin:

Thanks again. Do you think I should e-mail Clyde Shepherd and complain, or just forget about it?

I am a bit confused about how to maybe unstick it. Before it was installed, I noticed I could not push in with my finger that valve(?) that is about an inch below the big plastic T-hose, sort of inside the metal cylinder BOV thing itself. Should this push in easily or what?

Mike

[cnh1990]

Well yes and no about it pushing in. What you will be pushing is a black rubber seal down the throat of the BOV, the big opening. It will not move unless a vac pressure has been first applied to the small end with the 10mm hex adjustment. First off do you have the adjustment instructions? If you do it should make reference to 12-30 psi BOV, remove the circ clip off the brass fitting. Using a 10 mm wrench rotate the brass fititng to it's lowest psi trigger setting (12psi), if yours is the same as mine and you are holding the BOV and looking at the brass end it will be in a clockwise direction. Turn it counter clockwise first just a quarter or half turn so you know what the valve adjuster should feel like and the pressure on the wrench used to adjust the BOV. Then turn the adjuster clockwise until resitance is felt, do not over tighten. You may or may not hit a detent every full revolution depending on the BOV. Depending on how the mechanic has adjusted the BOV you may have to spin it quite a lot. From 30 psi to 12 psi is approximately 10 full revolutions of the adjuster. The stock SE/S4 trigger is about 12 psi. It is important the you do not over tighten or do so in a rough way. As damage can result to the BOV. Once you have set the BOV to the lowest setting apply vac pressure to the brass fitting while pressing your finger(12psi worth) on the rubber stopper in the throat. When enough vac pressure is applied on the brass fitting the rubber stopper will all of a sudden release and move inward just a little. This what you want. If don't have a vac pump you must suck on the brass fitting with enough pressure to trigger the release. Just pressing the stopper without vac pressure, it will not just press in. You must suck on it very hard (you may get a slight hint of gas fumes while sucking and is normal) and if the setting is more than the 12 psi trigger it is impossible to for a human to suck that hard. Although many a joke has been made about a particular female we know and it has been suggested that we send her around to help all the people with stuck BOV's. After the BOV has been unstuck put the circ clip back on if it does not go back on wrap a cloth around the brass fitting and gently give the fitting a tug rearward with pliers to expose the circ clip groove. At this point do not push in on the fitting without the circ clip installed. re-install BOV, Push on the purge hose from the small plastic T to the fitting, make sure the small plastic T is after check valve going to the charcoal canister and he other end attached to the manifold. When the throttle plates close when you let up on the gas with the clutch in it will trigger the BOV and with the windows up you will hear a quiet but distinct pa-chew sound reminicent of the old F1 turbo cars. The duration, tone, volume of the sound will vary with how hard the turbo is spooled and how long you take to get back on throttle. It is not an objectionable sound unlike the boy toy Japanese machines. If you have an S4s chip and want the psi trigger set to 14, rotate on full revolution of the adjuster then drive. Repeat the process until the BOV releases at where you want it. Oh complaining to Clyde will not help the dealer situtation they are all independant service centers and may charge what ever they feel like. Paying $200 for a part that one pays $60 retail for is outrageous. Where do you live, can I get you in touch with local help nearby?
Calvin

[Skerd]

Calvin:

Thanks again. I live 20 minutes north of Philadelphia, PA actually in Burlington, NJ. This weekend (raining next two days) I will try out your advice. If I cannot figure it out........"ask Calvin again!!!"

Mike

[cnh1990]

Philly has a club of some sorts. Atwell and his bunch are in NJ. I think there is some kind of get together for the NY,NJ,CT area. Get a hold of Atwell if you know him or I'll get you in touch with him.
Calvin

[Skerd]

Calvin:

I am a member of that Lotus ReMarque thing. Atwell's number is in there. I will contact him if necessary. I did decide find another mechanic. Thanks.

[lovemonkeysd]

Quick question: Where can I buy the $60 a chargecooler rebuild kit? Thanks.

[Skerd]

You can buy it for $ 49 from Moto-Concept, or you could go to my
ex-dealer and pay over $ 200.

Click on www.moto-concept.de
Click on "Lotus", then click on "Esprit", then click on "Motor Tuning". It is the last one on the page. There is a way to convert it to english which I have somewhere if you need it.

I think you can also buy it from
Sanj, since he is their US distributor.

Note they have a lot of other useful items also. They have brake pads for around $ 250. My dealer was $ 900.

[cnh1990]

Sanj,
Does have the pump rebuild kit in stock for $60 or just the impeller as it is a USA Jabsco part, I have heard that it can be had for as low $20 from some of the Chicago guys. One would have to be carefull with the process in taking apart the pump and would recomend the kit for first time rebuilders as the paper gasket may tear on the cover removal and unless you are experienced enough to tell the difference if the coolant and the oil seals need replacements it might be better to replace the those as well at the same time as the impeller replacement. If you order from Moto-Concept email Marcus because he is the only one the coresponds in English the others take a while for return emails due to translation of emails and sometimes thoughts get lost in the process. Marcus can be reached at [e-mail] Even with Luft (air) mail it will take 7-10 days to arrive with 10-15 in postage. They deal in Euro dollars and is almost an even USD exchange. Marcus is very good with 4 cyl. Esprit's and is a former owner. Just recently totaled his Esprit on the expressway. If you have an SE the front brakes for our cars is from a Toyata and the can be had from anywhere. You can get Porterfields,Ferodo, or Mintex (I have them in my car). The fronts are easy to get and do most of the work to stop the car. I have had no problems mixing different brands of pads in pairs during very hard braking. The rears are Girling and will be a problem for us in the future. If you have caliper problems they have to be rebuilt as replacemnts are not available and you must change them to Brembo, AP, etc. which is not a bad idea.
Calvin

[Mark91SE]

JAE in CA (805-967-5767) also has the chargecooler rebuild kit. I just ordered one for $51.50 + shipping. I don't know if there's any difference between these sources though.

[cnh1990]

No difference if they have all the parts.
Impeller, paper gasket, o-ring, shaft oil seal, shaft coolant seal. I'll shoot you an email for quick hint on the keyed alignment that will save loads of time if you want.
Calvin

[Mark91SE]

Thanks... yes, I noticed on Sanj's site, it appears there are a few things which need to be done a certain way.
http://turboesprit.tripod.com/CCooler/index.html
I'll drop you a line when I get bewildered (shouldn't take too long for that) heh.
Though, I'm also looking into an electric pump. I found a really efficient (takes less than .8 amps), lifetime reliable, glycol capable, brushless pump used for solar powered hot water transfer, which is small and looks ideal. Though, the distributor cost is $134 (nearly $200 retail).
Stock is nice too though.

[cnh1990]

Well Sanj and I discussed the pump rebuild at LOG. I really had to twist my pump to get it to come off. The key for the drive shaft was very hard to align afterwards. Many people asked about the speed of my reinstall. A little over 2 hrs. with the rebuild. With the pump cover and the o ring seal off but before the rebuild put the old impeller partially back on the shaft and use it as a knob to spin the key to align with the drive slot this is easy to align the key in this manner. This time removal of the pump is easy because the pump body does not have the hoses, o ring, and crud on it. Pull it straight out with out bumping the key, mark the position of the key with a marker the proceed with the rebuild. Once the impeller has been installed it is not advisable to move the impeller to align the key so the above step is critical in a speedy re-install. Impeller may be moved in only one direction once installed in the pump, if past the threshold it must be rotated all the way around. There are people that take 4-5 hours on the pump rebuild. It should take much less. Many people asked how did you think of presetting the shaft before the impeller replacement that limits the adjustment. The pump drive in older Esprit's is where distributor used to sit. To align the distributor shaft one turns the rotor. With the pump cover on it is very hard to align the key if it has drifted a lot during removal. More than one person has snapped off the ear of the block bolting on a mis keyed pump or distributor. If this happens you better be good with a welder. It is hints like these that are needed to make the difference between enjoying a beer and still stuffed into the trunk working for hours to finish.
Calvin

[MikeyRide]

FWIW, the PO of my car paid 1.5hrs labor to rebuild the chargecooler. He possibly got a slight break because he was already getting a B service and a few other things.

Maybe it was their (the Princeton guys?) first time and they just charged straight time?

>> Edited by MikeyRide on Wednesday 2nd October 20:30