E92 M3 a good buy?
Discussion
I currently fancy a naturally aspirated V8 with a clutch pedal and hydraulic steering. I plan on keeping it a year or two and don't want to lose a heap on depreciation or shell out on running costs for something exotic like a Maserati.
Just started looking at the E92 M3. Am I right in my assumption that these are now depreciating slowly and probably close to reaching the end of their depreciation curve. To my mind they look like quite good value at c.£15k for an average miles car, especially compared to many over priced "modern classics".
The Buyers Guides appear to have been written a few years ago so don't cover issues that are arising now the cars are older. A bit of digging leads me to believe the main issues with a well looked after example will be throttle bodies, actuators and rod bearings. Can anyone provide an indication of what age/mileage each of these are likely to occur and repair costs please?
In terms of spec I assume EDC is a must have for resale. Anything else?
I like a manual gearbox but have read somewhere that the DCT is the preferred option. Would be interested in owners experiences and which box is in most demand.
Apologies if I have duplicated old threads.
Thanks in advance.
Pete
Just started looking at the E92 M3. Am I right in my assumption that these are now depreciating slowly and probably close to reaching the end of their depreciation curve. To my mind they look like quite good value at c.£15k for an average miles car, especially compared to many over priced "modern classics".
The Buyers Guides appear to have been written a few years ago so don't cover issues that are arising now the cars are older. A bit of digging leads me to believe the main issues with a well looked after example will be throttle bodies, actuators and rod bearings. Can anyone provide an indication of what age/mileage each of these are likely to occur and repair costs please?
In terms of spec I assume EDC is a must have for resale. Anything else?
I like a manual gearbox but have read somewhere that the DCT is the preferred option. Would be interested in owners experiences and which box is in most demand.
Apologies if I have duplicated old threads.
Thanks in advance.
Pete
Actuators most likely ; have heard from owners quotes of 400£ from rebuild.org with lifetime warranty , add travel costs if come to you. One customer, I know, other side of country from company 750£ all in he said.
Rod bearings , heard owners pay 1400£ from well respected evolve automotive.
These are only common issues I hear of , popular is budgeting £2k
CIC which is better iDrive is preferred (build date 1-9-2008 on) but most common it seems in 09 plates onward.
LCI April 2010 lots like the rear lights, but can retrofit.
EDC popular option
Individual audio much liked but rare.
Your real unicorn be a Competition Pack , 24 manuals built.
Rod bearings , heard owners pay 1400£ from well respected evolve automotive.
These are only common issues I hear of , popular is budgeting £2k
CIC which is better iDrive is preferred (build date 1-9-2008 on) but most common it seems in 09 plates onward.
LCI April 2010 lots like the rear lights, but can retrofit.
EDC popular option
Individual audio much liked but rare.
Your real unicorn be a Competition Pack , 24 manuals built.
I’m in the market for one of these, albeit with a DCT gearbox.
Lots of chat about values on M3 Cutters so worth having a look on there.
I’ve concluded that values are all over the place. Common faults as above, but worth pointing out that while the actuators might leave you inconvenienced/stranded, a spun shell might leave you looking for a new engine. Also seems to be cropping up more now.
I’ve test driven a fair few and would say it’s a hard car to get the measure of on a test drive. I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m just going to get one and then sell it on if I don’t end up loving it.
I’ll probably get shouted down by the fanboys, but I suspect that they could well drop further. Significant running costs (£570 RFL, 15mpg) and as they get older they will need more TLC (suspension refresh). A nice one might maintain its value but I could take ages to sell as you need to find someone who appreciates the maintainence record and doesn’t just look at the price for similar mileage/age.
I’ve seen a couple of older 2007/08 cars with 70-80k mileage sell for around 13k. Makes me worried that buying a 50k mile 2010 for 20k could lose a lot in 2 years.
Lots of chat about values on M3 Cutters so worth having a look on there.
I’ve concluded that values are all over the place. Common faults as above, but worth pointing out that while the actuators might leave you inconvenienced/stranded, a spun shell might leave you looking for a new engine. Also seems to be cropping up more now.
I’ve test driven a fair few and would say it’s a hard car to get the measure of on a test drive. I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m just going to get one and then sell it on if I don’t end up loving it.
I’ll probably get shouted down by the fanboys, but I suspect that they could well drop further. Significant running costs (£570 RFL, 15mpg) and as they get older they will need more TLC (suspension refresh). A nice one might maintain its value but I could take ages to sell as you need to find someone who appreciates the maintainence record and doesn’t just look at the price for similar mileage/age.
I’ve seen a couple of older 2007/08 cars with 70-80k mileage sell for around 13k. Makes me worried that buying a 50k mile 2010 for 20k could lose a lot in 2 years.
Driver101 said:
The market finally seems to be falling on these.
Cars weren't selling at the high prices that were being asked, but it looks like advertised prices have taken a dip lately.
Agree. I thought I bought one at the bottom of the depreciation curve last year at £14.5k. It was low miles, immaculate and fBMWsh and a stand-out car in terms of condition and price.Cars weren't selling at the high prices that were being asked, but it looks like advertised prices have taken a dip lately.
There are loads of them out there for that price now, just 6 months later. I think the issue is that they're hard to shift unless they're 09 LCi's with EDC and DCT gearboxes, so there are lots sitting in the market for a long time.
Personally I wouldn't have another manual E92. Better to have a great auto (DCT) than a terrible stick-shift.
I have an e92 come pack. Had for two years and only problem has been a nail in a tyre. Mine has DCT (which I prefer , easy to leave in auto before the engine is warmed up and it keep you at low revs) edc, harman . I get 19mpg - which isn’t bad for the power but the main issue is the small tank so you only get a range of 250-300. The car is quick , but for me it’s more about the handling , the mechanical feel of the car (I didn’t like the newer one because of this) and the fact it’s so practical . Sits 4 easily and a big boot . Not sure what I would replace it with tbh.
I really liked EDC on mine but the passive set up is fine as it is. Gearbox wise it is tricky...on the one hand its great to have a manual mated to a V8(I went manual with mine), but the gearbox isn't brilliant and the DCT suits the engine better I think.
The E92 M3 looks a really good value car at the moment I reckon.
The E92 M3 looks a really good value car at the moment I reckon.
I’m (hopefully) about to buy one and I still think they have a way to fall. That said, I can’t think of anything better for my needs even at a higher price point. Tried M2, new M3 and C63 AMG and the new BMWs seem to lack the feel offered by the previous generation. The AMG was fun for the sound, but was disappointed by the handling, gearbox and generally remote feeling.
Now my only dilemma is whether to hold out for a car with EDC. The one I’ve found has everything else I want, and TBH I want EDC for easy resale more than anything else - I’ve generally been happy with a decent passive setup and it could always be improved with Öhlins or KW.
Even if they do take a bit of a drop, it’s likely to be less than a F80 M3 or new(ish) M2 which justifies it in my mind.
Now my only dilemma is whether to hold out for a car with EDC. The one I’ve found has everything else I want, and TBH I want EDC for easy resale more than anything else - I’ve generally been happy with a decent passive setup and it could always be improved with Öhlins or KW.
Even if they do take a bit of a drop, it’s likely to be less than a F80 M3 or new(ish) M2 which justifies it in my mind.
Great input, thanks chaps.
Interesting comments on values. I've not spotted any low milers for £14.5k yet although I'm only looking at the coupe (I like the carbon roof). I'd have thought depreciation would slow to around a k pa now for next couple of years and then bottom out. Don't see why they should trade for less than the E46 as they appear to be respected as an excellent M car and thus a future classic.
Interesting comments on values. I've not spotted any low milers for £14.5k yet although I'm only looking at the coupe (I like the carbon roof). I'd have thought depreciation would slow to around a k pa now for next couple of years and then bottom out. Don't see why they should trade for less than the E46 as they appear to be respected as an excellent M car and thus a future classic.
Not sure who suggested low milers will trade for 14k, depending on your definition of low mileage.
That said I’d say that E46 prices are rising while E9X ones are still dropping. For low mileage stuff I’d say that they are getting closer to being even. Arguably that’s because most E46 are now being bought as weekend cars and/or garage queens, increasingly few good ones are daily drivers.
That said I’d say that E46 prices are rising while E9X ones are still dropping. For low mileage stuff I’d say that they are getting closer to being even. Arguably that’s because most E46 are now being bought as weekend cars and/or garage queens, increasingly few good ones are daily drivers.
I always found the idea that EDC is essential very strange. I owned two from new, factory ordered, One with, one without EDC. The non EDC LCI car was a tremendous passive set up, to me, part way between comfort and sport in the EDC equipped car. If I ever bought another it would be music to my ears that I could buy a little cheaper what I consider to be the better car. I always found ‘comfort’ a little too soft and ‘sport’ a little too firm in the adjustable car.
P.s. it’s a much, much better car with the DCT imo.
P.s. it’s a much, much better car with the DCT imo.
I can't comment on values as I bought mine new and sold it several years ago.
Personally, I think EDC adds little or nothing to the driving experience although I appreciate those who've never owned one might think it's a must have so could affect resale values.
My main input would be on the gearbox, assuming you plan to drive it as intended. The engine is a masterpice in my view but it only really delivers in the final 2,500 revs, that's where all the action and the noise is. If ever an engine was built to do justice to a DCT box, it is this one as it makes it so natural to keep the engine singing in the sweet spot.
My preference is actually for manual gearboxes but this car cries out for a DCT box in my view.
Only my opinion of course
Personally, I think EDC adds little or nothing to the driving experience although I appreciate those who've never owned one might think it's a must have so could affect resale values.
My main input would be on the gearbox, assuming you plan to drive it as intended. The engine is a masterpice in my view but it only really delivers in the final 2,500 revs, that's where all the action and the noise is. If ever an engine was built to do justice to a DCT box, it is this one as it makes it so natural to keep the engine singing in the sweet spot.
My preference is actually for manual gearboxes but this car cries out for a DCT box in my view.
Only my opinion of course
Anybody who follows my Readers' Cars thread will know that I'm probably a bit of a fanboy for my E92 M3, however, I try to be as honest and subjective about the whole experience as I can be too.
There is no doubt that the E9* M3 are looking like very good value at at the moment; they have dropped in price a little over the past 9-12 months with only the low mileage, decent spec and Limited/Edition/Competition Pack cars holding onto their value.
The whole EDC/non-EDC thing is something you can only work out yourself after driving both, for what it's worth, my car is a Competition Pack so has EDC (although slightly different EDC settings, but are easily coded onto non-CP cars) and it's almost exclusively left in Comfort setting.. with the very occasional switch to Sport mode on the correct road/surface. I have only used the hardest suspension mode once, when I was at the Nurburgring and Spa. Therefore I don't think that it actually matters whether you get one with or without the EDC option, providing the rest of the car ticks the correct boxes for you.
There is no point discussing the DCT/Manual subject any further in my opinion, it's been done to death for a long time now. The DCT gearbox is definitely more suited to the S65 V8 engine, however, I bought a manual (which isn't a terrible manual gearbox despite what internet people will tell you) car because no matter how good an automatic gearbox is... pulling a paddle/knocking a lever up or down and having a computer execute the perfect gearchange is absolutely no substitute for the involvement that pulling a stick/operating a third pedal gives. However, if I was using the car as a daily driver and encountered heavy traffic on a regular basis then I'd reluctantly be shopping for the automatic version because it's horrific having a manual gearbox in stop start traffic regardless of what car you're driving.
Rod Bearings - yep, they can go.. but the failure rate is something like 1% of all cars produced, but, almost that entire 1% of owners post about it on the internet and the other 99% don't post about how uneventful their car has been; so it appears to be far more common than it actually is IMO. It's easy to avoid being bitten by this issue, you can buy a car with a decent warranty (BMW AUC ideally..) and you are covered in the event of suffering a failure, alternatively find one which has had the work done (there are PLENTY of owners doing this as a preventative measure) or set aside a 1200-1400 lump to cover the cost of having the work done post-purchase.
Throttle Actuators - they go wrong, in fact they will definitely go wrong on ALL cars at some point. But there is a fit and forget lifetime warranty/guaranteed solution available for ~500, so once replaced, they're done for good.
There is no doubt that the E9* M3 are looking like very good value at at the moment; they have dropped in price a little over the past 9-12 months with only the low mileage, decent spec and Limited/Edition/Competition Pack cars holding onto their value.
The whole EDC/non-EDC thing is something you can only work out yourself after driving both, for what it's worth, my car is a Competition Pack so has EDC (although slightly different EDC settings, but are easily coded onto non-CP cars) and it's almost exclusively left in Comfort setting.. with the very occasional switch to Sport mode on the correct road/surface. I have only used the hardest suspension mode once, when I was at the Nurburgring and Spa. Therefore I don't think that it actually matters whether you get one with or without the EDC option, providing the rest of the car ticks the correct boxes for you.
There is no point discussing the DCT/Manual subject any further in my opinion, it's been done to death for a long time now. The DCT gearbox is definitely more suited to the S65 V8 engine, however, I bought a manual (which isn't a terrible manual gearbox despite what internet people will tell you) car because no matter how good an automatic gearbox is... pulling a paddle/knocking a lever up or down and having a computer execute the perfect gearchange is absolutely no substitute for the involvement that pulling a stick/operating a third pedal gives. However, if I was using the car as a daily driver and encountered heavy traffic on a regular basis then I'd reluctantly be shopping for the automatic version because it's horrific having a manual gearbox in stop start traffic regardless of what car you're driving.
Rod Bearings - yep, they can go.. but the failure rate is something like 1% of all cars produced, but, almost that entire 1% of owners post about it on the internet and the other 99% don't post about how uneventful their car has been; so it appears to be far more common than it actually is IMO. It's easy to avoid being bitten by this issue, you can buy a car with a decent warranty (BMW AUC ideally..) and you are covered in the event of suffering a failure, alternatively find one which has had the work done (there are PLENTY of owners doing this as a preventative measure) or set aside a 1200-1400 lump to cover the cost of having the work done post-purchase.
Throttle Actuators - they go wrong, in fact they will definitely go wrong on ALL cars at some point. But there is a fit and forget lifetime warranty/guaranteed solution available for ~500, so once replaced, they're done for good.
Not enough happens lower down the rev range and this is where you are likely to spend most of your time. I love the look of the saloon which is why I bought one but its not the best V8 experience. That goes hands down to the B8 RS4. Looks, sound, practicality and performance. OK people will blow the same crap about how the Audi doesn't offer any involvement but neither does the M3 unless going well beyond the speed limit.
moonigan said:
Not enough happens lower down the rev range and this is where you are likely to spend most of your time. I love the look of the saloon which is why I bought one but its not the best V8 experience. That goes hands down to the B8 RS4. Looks, sound, practicality and performance. OK people will blow the same crap about how the Audi doesn't offer any involvement but neither does the M3 unless going well beyond the speed limit.
Is the extra 22 lb ft even noticeable in a heavier car?chow pan toon said:
Is the extra 22 lb ft even noticeable in a heavier car?
22lb-ft at the engine is irrelevant anyway without knowing the final drive gearing between the two. Torque to the floor is much more important than torque at the flywheel - after all that's what a gearbox is for. I don't understand why people compare engine torque without considering gearing.chow pan toon said:
Is the extra 22 lb ft even noticeable in a heavier car?
Don't know where the figure of 22lb ft comes from but I'm assuming its the difference between the B8 and E9x and of course you wont feel this. What the Audi gives that the BMW doesn't is the theatre of a V8 even when pootling around (as long as you have pressed the right buttons). Fire the RS4 up first thing in the morning and there can be no mistake as to what engine is under the bonnet. The M3 doesn't give you that theatre and that is a key part of the ownership imho.moonigan said:
chow pan toon said:
Is the extra 22 lb ft even noticeable in a heavier car?
Don't know where the figure of 22lb ft comes from but I'm assuming its the difference between the B8 and E9x and of course you wont feel this. What the Audi gives that the BMW doesn't is the theatre of a V8 even when pootling around (as long as you have pressed the right buttons). Fire the RS4 up first thing in the morning and there can be no mistake as to what engine is under the bonnet. The M3 doesn't give you that theatre and that is a key part of the ownership imho.
Seeing how much they are cherished .. I'm wondering whether to keep mine now :-/
It's a compromised car for sure (ideally manual but the DCT is better, small capacity V8 vs slightly heavy car) but it's still a great drive. The DCT and weight I can live with (until the M2 competition drops into my price range) but the the brakes I find way too soft for a daily driver, let alone performance car.
It's a compromised car for sure (ideally manual but the DCT is better, small capacity V8 vs slightly heavy car) but it's still a great drive. The DCT and weight I can live with (until the M2 competition drops into my price range) but the the brakes I find way too soft for a daily driver, let alone performance car.
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