Anyone running a late'ish Challenger ?
Discussion
My own experience may have some relevance to the question. Should preface this by stating that I live in the US, so sourcing cars like these is probably a little easier.
Back in 2008 I was on the sniff for a LX platform Challenger. I couldn't afford a new SRT-8, which, at that time came with a 425hp 6.1 Apache motor. I test drove an R/T (5.7 Eagle). It was a nice cruiser, but didn't really have the punch I was hankering for. The dealer suggested a 2007 SRT-8 Chrysler 300C which he had just acquired. This car had every option Chrysler then offered and despite not really being on my radar, it had the driveline I coveted. New, it would have cost close to $55k. One year (and one repossession) later it had s
t it's pants depreciation-wise and I bought it for $23k. We ran it for nearly 4 years, put 60k miles on it and with a few mods, I ran it in 11.97 bracket at my local strip with some success.
My wife was doing a 500 mile per week work commute in it and it averaged less than 20mpg, so we figured it was time for something a little more nimble and a little less thirsty. We ended up with a 2012 Ford Mustang GT Premium. Although I didn't really want to, I could not help but like this car. Going from a loping and torquey pushrod hemi to a smaller, more revvy DOHC Coyote was an adjustment, but it was a sweet car. I did a LOT of mods to this one and similarly raced it hard at the weekend. It didn't have the grunt that I'd enjoyed previously, but it was more responsive, steered better and drank significantly less premium gasoline.
While my ownership of the Mustang was a happy one, my desire for a powerful Challenger never really abated. I had a bit of a debacle trying to buy an early release Hellcat as an investment, but with hindsight I'm so glad the greedy dealer gazumped me. They are not the 'investment' that the pre-launch hype promised. I got really close to buying a Plum Crazy SRT-8 Core in 2014, but discovered it was a run-out model before a major facelift/upgrade in 2015, so I waited. The Scat Pack was aimed very squarely at people like me - needed the 392, but couldn't justify the stretch to SRT-8 money. I bought my TorRed R/T Scat Pack (with stripe delete option (don't like stripey cars) in May 2015 and it totally blew my socks off. 485/475 hp/lb-ft is really, really conservative. I added some power parts to mine and with the help of a pair of Nitto drag radials it would run 11 sec quarters all night long. Not only that, it was a pussy-cat to drive in traffic, was extensively equipped both tech and comfort-wise and had massively more human and luggage carrying capabilities than my Mustang. It was bad fast, looked great and was an absolute pleasure to own - but - it had one (major) short-coming. The stock 245/45/20 wheel and tire package is incapable of efficiently transmitting power to pavement without lots of smoke. Installing larger rears is very expensive and not without rubbing issues that require an angle-grinder to mitigate. If only Dodge would introduce a wide-body version.....
I bought the first wide-body Scat Pack to arrive in Orlando FL. The differences between this and its predecessor are many and very significant. Upgrading from a 245 to a 305 tire makes a massive difference in traction, lateral grip and wet weather performance. It also has electronically adjustable shocks and gigantic 6-piston brakes. With the addition of the fender flares, that adds a hefty $6k to the sticker price, but it is worth every cent. My red Challenger would not keep up with an aggressively driven 5.0 Mustang on anything but a straight road. This wide-body is SO well balanced that it's weight penalty is more than compensated for by it's handling and roadholding. It is unbelievably sure-footed for such a large (4200lbs) car.
Tech upgrades are numerous - some are super-useful, others a little gimmicky. U-Connect is the best infotainment system I've ever used and the 8 speed ZF/Torqueflite trans is lightning fast - in 'track' mode, the shifts are a little on the firm side, but insanely quick. Finally that utterly glorious 392cu in motor docile and composed on gentle throttle, bellowing monster on WOT. Rotating assembly is good for 1000hp (you will need forged reciprocating parts if you supercharge beyond about 8psi). This motor comes with factory shorty-headers and an utterly fantastic dual-mode exhaust system - aside from a mid-muffler delete to make it sound obnoxious, there is absolutely no point in going after market, it is that good.
It is a very different driving experience, compared to the Mustang or the 2015 R/T Scat Pack. Mustang is smaller, lighter and cheaper - but is less characterful, less brutal and a lot more common. Like I said - I enjoyed my Mustang, but it just didn't have the same bi-polar nature of either Challenger - and that's all down to the power plant in my view. The 392 Apache is an absolute gem - and makes this car what it is.
Hope this helps in some way.
Back in 2008 I was on the sniff for a LX platform Challenger. I couldn't afford a new SRT-8, which, at that time came with a 425hp 6.1 Apache motor. I test drove an R/T (5.7 Eagle). It was a nice cruiser, but didn't really have the punch I was hankering for. The dealer suggested a 2007 SRT-8 Chrysler 300C which he had just acquired. This car had every option Chrysler then offered and despite not really being on my radar, it had the driveline I coveted. New, it would have cost close to $55k. One year (and one repossession) later it had s
t it's pants depreciation-wise and I bought it for $23k. We ran it for nearly 4 years, put 60k miles on it and with a few mods, I ran it in 11.97 bracket at my local strip with some success.My wife was doing a 500 mile per week work commute in it and it averaged less than 20mpg, so we figured it was time for something a little more nimble and a little less thirsty. We ended up with a 2012 Ford Mustang GT Premium. Although I didn't really want to, I could not help but like this car. Going from a loping and torquey pushrod hemi to a smaller, more revvy DOHC Coyote was an adjustment, but it was a sweet car. I did a LOT of mods to this one and similarly raced it hard at the weekend. It didn't have the grunt that I'd enjoyed previously, but it was more responsive, steered better and drank significantly less premium gasoline.
While my ownership of the Mustang was a happy one, my desire for a powerful Challenger never really abated. I had a bit of a debacle trying to buy an early release Hellcat as an investment, but with hindsight I'm so glad the greedy dealer gazumped me. They are not the 'investment' that the pre-launch hype promised. I got really close to buying a Plum Crazy SRT-8 Core in 2014, but discovered it was a run-out model before a major facelift/upgrade in 2015, so I waited. The Scat Pack was aimed very squarely at people like me - needed the 392, but couldn't justify the stretch to SRT-8 money. I bought my TorRed R/T Scat Pack (with stripe delete option (don't like stripey cars) in May 2015 and it totally blew my socks off. 485/475 hp/lb-ft is really, really conservative. I added some power parts to mine and with the help of a pair of Nitto drag radials it would run 11 sec quarters all night long. Not only that, it was a pussy-cat to drive in traffic, was extensively equipped both tech and comfort-wise and had massively more human and luggage carrying capabilities than my Mustang. It was bad fast, looked great and was an absolute pleasure to own - but - it had one (major) short-coming. The stock 245/45/20 wheel and tire package is incapable of efficiently transmitting power to pavement without lots of smoke. Installing larger rears is very expensive and not without rubbing issues that require an angle-grinder to mitigate. If only Dodge would introduce a wide-body version.....
I bought the first wide-body Scat Pack to arrive in Orlando FL. The differences between this and its predecessor are many and very significant. Upgrading from a 245 to a 305 tire makes a massive difference in traction, lateral grip and wet weather performance. It also has electronically adjustable shocks and gigantic 6-piston brakes. With the addition of the fender flares, that adds a hefty $6k to the sticker price, but it is worth every cent. My red Challenger would not keep up with an aggressively driven 5.0 Mustang on anything but a straight road. This wide-body is SO well balanced that it's weight penalty is more than compensated for by it's handling and roadholding. It is unbelievably sure-footed for such a large (4200lbs) car.
Tech upgrades are numerous - some are super-useful, others a little gimmicky. U-Connect is the best infotainment system I've ever used and the 8 speed ZF/Torqueflite trans is lightning fast - in 'track' mode, the shifts are a little on the firm side, but insanely quick. Finally that utterly glorious 392cu in motor docile and composed on gentle throttle, bellowing monster on WOT. Rotating assembly is good for 1000hp (you will need forged reciprocating parts if you supercharge beyond about 8psi). This motor comes with factory shorty-headers and an utterly fantastic dual-mode exhaust system - aside from a mid-muffler delete to make it sound obnoxious, there is absolutely no point in going after market, it is that good.
It is a very different driving experience, compared to the Mustang or the 2015 R/T Scat Pack. Mustang is smaller, lighter and cheaper - but is less characterful, less brutal and a lot more common. Like I said - I enjoyed my Mustang, but it just didn't have the same bi-polar nature of either Challenger - and that's all down to the power plant in my view. The 392 Apache is an absolute gem - and makes this car what it is.
Hope this helps in some way.
SRT Hellcat said:
I've never driven any of the late model Mustangs. I own a 66 Mustang notch back. If you can stretch go for a Hellcat. Great fun and docile until you get into the throttle. You can fit 305's or even 315's on the back of a standard body but you will need wider wheels.
I'd also say go for the Hellcat if you can. The power, grin factor, smiles per gallon, etc, is fantastic. Loaded with toys. Can be driven daily, and will cruise around in peace and comfort as long as you don't press the right pedal a cm or so too far 
Press it too far and you'll overwhelm the traction for a second or so all too easy, but it's so addictive. Sounds brilliant on std exhausts IMO. Plenty of rear seat and boot space. Awesome brakes. But it is a big car to get into a UK garage.An additional $/GBP20,000-25,000 is more than a 'stretch' for most of us. I'd love a Hellcat, but can only 'stretch' to a used one, which I didn't want to do - and a new one isn't $25k better than widebody Scat Pack - just my opinion, mind...
305 and 315 tires will rub a stock R/T rear fender tub. Larger (wider) wheels require careful offset measurement and or shims to avoid the inner rim fouling the sway-bar drop links.
305 and 315 tires will rub a stock R/T rear fender tub. Larger (wider) wheels require careful offset measurement and or shims to avoid the inner rim fouling the sway-bar drop links.
I did get carried away and think about the possibility of a Hellcat albeit very briefly. As nice as it would be to own one they are still at £60k upwards - my '17 5.0 Mustang is probably worth half that on a good day - for limited use I cant really justify something costing twice as much.
For the value of the Mustang plus say £10k this would be right up my street ….
Do they all have the logos on the rear seats as I'm sure I've seen them on just the fronts in others ?
For the value of the Mustang plus say £10k this would be right up my street ….
Do they all have the logos on the rear seats as I'm sure I've seen them on just the fronts in others ?
Matt Harper said:
My own experience may have some relevance to the question. Should preface this by stating that I live in the US, so sourcing cars like these is probably a little easier.
Back in 2008 I was on the sniff for a LX platform Challenger. I couldn't afford a new SRT-8, which, at that time came with a 425hp 6.1 Apache motor. I test drove an R/T (5.7 Eagle). It was a nice cruiser, but didn't really have the punch I was hankering for. The dealer suggested a 2007 SRT-8 Chrysler 300C which he had just acquired. This car had every option Chrysler then offered and despite not really being on my radar, it had the driveline I coveted. New, it would have cost close to $55k. One year (and one repossession) later it had st it's pants depreciation-wise and I bought it for $23k. We ran it for nearly 4 years, put 60k miles on it and with a few mods, I ran it in 11.97 bracket at my local strip with some success.
My wife was doing a 500 mile per week work commute in it and it averaged less than 20mpg, so we figured it was time for something a little more nimble and a little less thirsty. We ended up with a 2012 Ford Mustang GT Premium. Although I didn't really want to, I could not help but like this car. Going from a loping and torquey pushrod hemi to a smaller, more revvy DOHC Coyote was an adjustment, but it was a sweet car. I did a LOT of mods to this one and similarly raced it hard at the weekend. It didn't have the grunt that I'd enjoyed previously, but it was more responsive, steered better and drank significantly less premium gasoline.
While my ownership of the Mustang was a happy one, my desire for a powerful Challenger never really abated. I had a bit of a debacle trying to buy an early release Hellcat as an investment, but with hindsight I'm so glad the greedy dealer gazumped me. They are not the 'investment' that the pre-launch hype promised. I got really close to buying a Plum Crazy SRT-8 Core in 2014, but discovered it was a run-out model before a major facelift/upgrade in 2015, so I waited. The Scat Pack was aimed very squarely at people like me - needed the 392, but couldn't justify the stretch to SRT-8 money. I bought my TorRed R/T Scat Pack (with stripe delete option (don't like stripey cars) in May 2015 and it totally blew my socks off. 485/475 hp/lb-ft is really, really conservative. I added some power parts to mine and with the help of a pair of Nitto drag radials it would run 11 sec quarters all night long. Not only that, it was a pussy-cat to drive in traffic, was extensively equipped both tech and comfort-wise and had massively more human and luggage carrying capabilities than my Mustang. It was bad fast, looked great and was an absolute pleasure to own - but - it had one (major) short-coming. The stock 245/45/20 wheel and tire package is incapable of efficiently transmitting power to pavement without lots of smoke. Installing larger rears is very expensive and not without rubbing issues that require an angle-grinder to mitigate. If only Dodge would introduce a wide-body version.....
I bought the first wide-body Scat Pack to arrive in Orlando FL. The differences between this and its predecessor are many and very significant. Upgrading from a 245 to a 305 tire makes a massive difference in traction, lateral grip and wet weather performance. It also has electronically adjustable shocks and gigantic 6-piston brakes. With the addition of the fender flares, that adds a hefty $6k to the sticker price, but it is worth every cent. My red Challenger would not keep up with an aggressively driven 5.0 Mustang on anything but a straight road. This wide-body is SO well balanced that it's weight penalty is more than compensated for by it's handling and roadholding. It is unbelievably sure-footed for such a large (4200lbs) car.
Tech upgrades are numerous - some are super-useful, others a little gimmicky. U-Connect is the best infotainment system I've ever used and the 8 speed ZF/Torqueflite trans is lightning fast - in 'track' mode, the shifts are a little on the firm side, but insanely quick. Finally that utterly glorious 392cu in motor docile and composed on gentle throttle, bellowing monster on WOT. Rotating assembly is good for 1000hp (you will need forged reciprocating parts if you supercharge beyond about 8psi). This motor comes with factory shorty-headers and an utterly fantastic dual-mode exhaust system - aside from a mid-muffler delete to make it sound obnoxious, there is absolutely no point in going after market, it is that good.
It is a very different driving experience, compared to the Mustang or the 2015 R/T Scat Pack. Mustang is smaller, lighter and cheaper - but is less characterful, less brutal and a lot more common. Like I said - I enjoyed my Mustang, but it just didn't have the same bi-polar nature of either Challenger - and that's all down to the power plant in my view. The 392 Apache is an absolute gem - and makes this car what it is.
Hope this helps in some way.
Great info Matt and really interesting read. Love your enthusiasm Back in 2008 I was on the sniff for a LX platform Challenger. I couldn't afford a new SRT-8, which, at that time came with a 425hp 6.1 Apache motor. I test drove an R/T (5.7 Eagle). It was a nice cruiser, but didn't really have the punch I was hankering for. The dealer suggested a 2007 SRT-8 Chrysler 300C which he had just acquired. This car had every option Chrysler then offered and despite not really being on my radar, it had the driveline I coveted. New, it would have cost close to $55k. One year (and one repossession) later it had s
t it's pants depreciation-wise and I bought it for $23k. We ran it for nearly 4 years, put 60k miles on it and with a few mods, I ran it in 11.97 bracket at my local strip with some success.My wife was doing a 500 mile per week work commute in it and it averaged less than 20mpg, so we figured it was time for something a little more nimble and a little less thirsty. We ended up with a 2012 Ford Mustang GT Premium. Although I didn't really want to, I could not help but like this car. Going from a loping and torquey pushrod hemi to a smaller, more revvy DOHC Coyote was an adjustment, but it was a sweet car. I did a LOT of mods to this one and similarly raced it hard at the weekend. It didn't have the grunt that I'd enjoyed previously, but it was more responsive, steered better and drank significantly less premium gasoline.
While my ownership of the Mustang was a happy one, my desire for a powerful Challenger never really abated. I had a bit of a debacle trying to buy an early release Hellcat as an investment, but with hindsight I'm so glad the greedy dealer gazumped me. They are not the 'investment' that the pre-launch hype promised. I got really close to buying a Plum Crazy SRT-8 Core in 2014, but discovered it was a run-out model before a major facelift/upgrade in 2015, so I waited. The Scat Pack was aimed very squarely at people like me - needed the 392, but couldn't justify the stretch to SRT-8 money. I bought my TorRed R/T Scat Pack (with stripe delete option (don't like stripey cars) in May 2015 and it totally blew my socks off. 485/475 hp/lb-ft is really, really conservative. I added some power parts to mine and with the help of a pair of Nitto drag radials it would run 11 sec quarters all night long. Not only that, it was a pussy-cat to drive in traffic, was extensively equipped both tech and comfort-wise and had massively more human and luggage carrying capabilities than my Mustang. It was bad fast, looked great and was an absolute pleasure to own - but - it had one (major) short-coming. The stock 245/45/20 wheel and tire package is incapable of efficiently transmitting power to pavement without lots of smoke. Installing larger rears is very expensive and not without rubbing issues that require an angle-grinder to mitigate. If only Dodge would introduce a wide-body version.....
I bought the first wide-body Scat Pack to arrive in Orlando FL. The differences between this and its predecessor are many and very significant. Upgrading from a 245 to a 305 tire makes a massive difference in traction, lateral grip and wet weather performance. It also has electronically adjustable shocks and gigantic 6-piston brakes. With the addition of the fender flares, that adds a hefty $6k to the sticker price, but it is worth every cent. My red Challenger would not keep up with an aggressively driven 5.0 Mustang on anything but a straight road. This wide-body is SO well balanced that it's weight penalty is more than compensated for by it's handling and roadholding. It is unbelievably sure-footed for such a large (4200lbs) car.
Tech upgrades are numerous - some are super-useful, others a little gimmicky. U-Connect is the best infotainment system I've ever used and the 8 speed ZF/Torqueflite trans is lightning fast - in 'track' mode, the shifts are a little on the firm side, but insanely quick. Finally that utterly glorious 392cu in motor docile and composed on gentle throttle, bellowing monster on WOT. Rotating assembly is good for 1000hp (you will need forged reciprocating parts if you supercharge beyond about 8psi). This motor comes with factory shorty-headers and an utterly fantastic dual-mode exhaust system - aside from a mid-muffler delete to make it sound obnoxious, there is absolutely no point in going after market, it is that good.
It is a very different driving experience, compared to the Mustang or the 2015 R/T Scat Pack. Mustang is smaller, lighter and cheaper - but is less characterful, less brutal and a lot more common. Like I said - I enjoyed my Mustang, but it just didn't have the same bi-polar nature of either Challenger - and that's all down to the power plant in my view. The 392 Apache is an absolute gem - and makes this car what it is.
Hope this helps in some way.
Not wanting to pick holes. Just more curious. You are Florida aren’t you? Tampa area? You mention the 2015 Challenger wouldn’t keep with the Mustang on anything other than straight roads.
What sort of good driving roads are there in FL? I searched long and hard and covered about 1900 miles from Orlando to Key West via Miami and then up the Gulf coast to Sarasota and Tampa. My biggest conclusion was, apart from some residential areas with very low speed limits I found almost no roads with bends/curves anywhere. Apart from on/off ramps for the freeway.
Would love to know of some decent driving roads for when I go back next. Thanks.
300bhp/ton said:
Great info Matt and really interesting read. Love your enthusiasm
Not wanting to pick holes. Just more curious. You are Florida aren’t you? Tampa area? You mention the 2015 Challenger wouldn’t keep with the Mustang on anything other than straight roads.
What sort of good driving roads are there in FL? I searched long and hard and covered about 1900 miles from Orlando to Key West via Miami and then up the Gulf coast to Sarasota and Tampa. My biggest conclusion was, apart from some residential areas with very low speed limits I found almost no roads with bends/curves anywhere. Apart from on/off ramps for the freeway.
Would love to know of some decent driving roads for when I go back next. Thanks.
I live in Belle Isle, which is a southern suburb of Orlando FL. You are correct, finding anything other than arrow straight roads is a challenge - but there are a few. Next time you are over here let me know and I'll make some suggestions.Not wanting to pick holes. Just more curious. You are Florida aren’t you? Tampa area? You mention the 2015 Challenger wouldn’t keep with the Mustang on anything other than straight roads.
What sort of good driving roads are there in FL? I searched long and hard and covered about 1900 miles from Orlando to Key West via Miami and then up the Gulf coast to Sarasota and Tampa. My biggest conclusion was, apart from some residential areas with very low speed limits I found almost no roads with bends/curves anywhere. Apart from on/off ramps for the freeway.
Would love to know of some decent driving roads for when I go back next. Thanks.
Matt Harper said:
MuscleSaloon said:
Do they all have the logos on the rear seats as I'm sure I've seen them on just the fronts in others ?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
The rear spoiler is gloss as well. It has also lost the stock exhausts somewhere along the way.
Here lies the biggest problem - finding a Scat Pack car already in the UK, particularly a stock one that has not been not messed with.
There has been a new one advertised at £50k ….
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-2019-Dodge-Challeng...
That's £10k further in than I would like to be, plus at that money you are temptingly close to a Hellcat.
Edited by MuscleSaloon on Wednesday 15th May 09:43
Bought my Hellcat from David Johnsons, Manchester, last year. A very pleasent experience. Little family run business. They've a couple or three Hellcats in stock, the scat pack on the link below, and an RT.
https://davidjohnsonpartnership.com/listings/2018-...
https://davidjohnsonpartnership.com/listings/2018-...
Edited by AndySheff on Wednesday 15th May 19:28
Oh, BTW. Have also owned a 12 Mustang GT Cali Special. This of course had the new 412hp Coyote V8. Was a nice drive. Plenty of get up'n'go. 6spd manual. I enjoyed it. The missus loved it. She was pissed when I sold it, but came round when she drove the Hellcat
I'll we out a couple of pics.
Previous Mustang.
Hellcat
And my Sn95 cab
I'll w
e out a couple of pics.Previous Mustang.
Hellcat
And my Sn95 cab
The S550 I have is my 5th Mustang. I am not truly a Ford person, but overall you cannot go far wrong with them.
They did a good job with the S550 - a big step forward from the last S197's as you would expect it to be. The Challenger appeals as I could do with more room in the rear for family and it is the one that seems to have stuck to the Muscle car idea the most. Mustang and Camaro seem to moved away from this to some degree. Styling wise the S550 Mustang already looks plain to me, the Camaro less so but the Challenger is a stand-out car in my eyes. S550's are common in the UK since they did right hand drive, I don't take a great deal of notice of them anymore. Yet I can remember each and every occasion I've seen a Challenger on the road in recent years.
They did a good job with the S550 - a big step forward from the last S197's as you would expect it to be. The Challenger appeals as I could do with more room in the rear for family and it is the one that seems to have stuck to the Muscle car idea the most. Mustang and Camaro seem to moved away from this to some degree. Styling wise the S550 Mustang already looks plain to me, the Camaro less so but the Challenger is a stand-out car in my eyes. S550's are common in the UK since they did right hand drive, I don't take a great deal of notice of them anymore. Yet I can remember each and every occasion I've seen a Challenger on the road in recent years.
If you want some back seat space you need a Challenger. Mustang has a little less space but useable. Camaro back seats are almost useless. And that was a shame for me since I love the look of the new Camaro. Went to look at a ZL1 which was gorgeous and drove fantastic, but so little space in the back. Might as well have been a Corvette. (Would like to try a C7).
AndySheff said:
Bought my Hellcat from David Johnsons, Manchester, last year. A very pleasent experience. Little family run business. They've a couple or three Hellcats in stock, the scat pack on the link below, and an RT.
https://davidjohnsonpartnership.com/listings/2018-...
Why are these places always miles from me https://davidjohnsonpartnership.com/listings/2018-...
Edited by AndySheff on Wednesday 15th May 19:28
Are there any in the Home Counties/midlands more so?
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