F90 Ceramic brakes
Discussion
I’m looking at ordering a new M5 next week and as we know ceramic brakes are £7k or so.
Given my steel disks in my last F10 lasted about 35000 miles with front pads already changed at 16000 miles, I was looking forward to a bill of around £3k just for the disks all round and more to include pads. Bearing in mind I would like to think I’ll keep this car to 50,000 miles or so are the ceramics worth the investment?
I’m not fussed about braking power as I don’t track the car, I’m simply looking at £’s here....albeit I suspect they are a brilliant bit of kit!
Anyone with any experience on these lovely braking systems?
Given my steel disks in my last F10 lasted about 35000 miles with front pads already changed at 16000 miles, I was looking forward to a bill of around £3k just for the disks all round and more to include pads. Bearing in mind I would like to think I’ll keep this car to 50,000 miles or so are the ceramics worth the investment?
I’m not fussed about braking power as I don’t track the car, I’m simply looking at £’s here....albeit I suspect they are a brilliant bit of kit!
Anyone with any experience on these lovely braking systems?
First of all, hands up, I have no experience of these on BMW. I have had four Ferrari’s with CCB though and driven my business partners CCB Porsche extensively. IMO they are great on a supercar driven in fine weather only. Good at savings unsprung weight, not that you’d really notice too much in a car as heavy as an M5. Historically i’ve found them poor when wet and cold and although the outright stopping power is great, feel under these conditions is not as good as a well set-up standard system. Unless repeated high speed hard braking.... it won’t actually slow the car any quicker than a standard system... it is nice not to have any brake dust though! A stone chip on one of my Ferrari’s disc led to a £3,900 replacement but I assume the BMW would hopefully be less?
With the above experience I personally wouldn’t bother with CCB on my daily and I don’t doubt over 50k miles you’d still be £3-£4K out of pocket. You’d get nothing extra back as a trade in as I can’t see many people who buy theses down the line will want to stomach the eventual replacement cost.
With the above experience I personally wouldn’t bother with CCB on my daily and I don’t doubt over 50k miles you’d still be £3-£4K out of pocket. You’d get nothing extra back as a trade in as I can’t see many people who buy theses down the line will want to stomach the eventual replacement cost.
Those used cars for sale with CC brakes don’t appear to carry a premium.
Does anyone with an F90 with either type of brake suffer from them screeching?
My F10 was terrible for it and that had steel so if CC meant it wouldn’t make any noise then I would consider them more for that than any other reason.
Does anyone with an F90 with either type of brake suffer from them screeching?
My F10 was terrible for it and that had steel so if CC meant it wouldn’t make any noise then I would consider them more for that than any other reason.
The0bald said:
Those used cars for sale with CC brakes don’t appear to carry a premium.
Does anyone with an F90 with either type of brake suffer from them screeching?
My F10 was terrible for it and that had steel so if CC meant it wouldn’t make any noise then I would consider them more for that than any other reason.
My car (standard brakes) makes no noise. I have read posts from others that have had screeching - don’t know if it is based in use or slight differences in discs / pads?Does anyone with an F90 with either type of brake suffer from them screeching?
My F10 was terrible for it and that had steel so if CC meant it wouldn’t make any noise then I would consider them more for that than any other reason.
FWIW there are a couple of well known Porsches with their original PCCB over 150k miles.
If you’re religious about swapping pads out they can run the discs for huge mileages.
The only thing on a daily and as mentioned above would be stone damage, or a clumsy tyre fitter knocking a disc on a innocuous tyre change.
I’ve only ever had two cars that routinely got stones caught in the disc and they were both BMWs-though I suspect that could be down to nothing more than bad luck.
If you’re religious about swapping pads out they can run the discs for huge mileages.
The only thing on a daily and as mentioned above would be stone damage, or a clumsy tyre fitter knocking a disc on a innocuous tyre change.
I’ve only ever had two cars that routinely got stones caught in the disc and they were both BMWs-though I suspect that could be down to nothing more than bad luck.
I had a 911 with ceramic brakes. Motorway drives in the wet were especially a nightmare, If you hadn't used the brakes for a while they would get damp and cold and when you needed them again they were atrocious and if it was an emergency you could be in real trouble. I got into the habit of having to use them every 5 minutes or so to keep them warm and dry them out which on an 8 hour trip in wet conditions became quite tiring. I'm surprised they have approval for use on road cars and really can see no benefit to them at all except for track use.
I have the Carbon Ceramic brakes on my M4CS and I have to say, before I collected it I was a bit concerned by the potential costs, and the apparent noises they make.
For the first 100 miles or so I was getting some loud groans at slow speeds, not a squeal, and I’m only meaning under 20mph. I did 3 or 4 hard hard stops from 100ish on a private road, and they have been silent ever since. I’m now over 3000 miles and find them utterly brilliant. In general day to day driving you can’t tell them apart from the steel brakes, yet the feel is just better, the pedal feels nicer and they inspire confidence. As above, in the rain on the motorway they disappear, which is a bit concerning, but my steel braked F80’s did this too so nothing major there.
I have done 30k miles in 2 F80’s with steel brakes and I found them massively underwhelming, noisy, rusty and shakey through the steering wheel. Couple this with no brake dust and ease of washing, the CCB’s would be the first box I tick from now on.
For the first 100 miles or so I was getting some loud groans at slow speeds, not a squeal, and I’m only meaning under 20mph. I did 3 or 4 hard hard stops from 100ish on a private road, and they have been silent ever since. I’m now over 3000 miles and find them utterly brilliant. In general day to day driving you can’t tell them apart from the steel brakes, yet the feel is just better, the pedal feels nicer and they inspire confidence. As above, in the rain on the motorway they disappear, which is a bit concerning, but my steel braked F80’s did this too so nothing major there.
I have done 30k miles in 2 F80’s with steel brakes and I found them massively underwhelming, noisy, rusty and shakey through the steering wheel. Couple this with no brake dust and ease of washing, the CCB’s would be the first box I tick from now on.
HoHoHo said:
I’m looking at ordering a new M5 next week and as we know ceramic brakes are £7k or so.
Given my steel disks in my last F10 lasted about 35000 miles with front pads already changed at 16000 miles, I was looking forward to a bill of around £3k just for the disks all round and more to include pads. Bearing in mind I would like to think I’ll keep this car to 50,000 miles or so are the ceramics worth the investment?
I’m not fussed about braking power as I don’t track the car, I’m simply looking at £’s here....albeit I suspect they are a brilliant bit of kit!
Anyone with any experience on these lovely braking systems?
Got these on my F90 M5 Martin, they are great and fade free, however the new F90 M5 CP I pick up in a week or so will not have them, I am not a heavy user of brakes (I use the engine all the time) so not bothered.Given my steel disks in my last F10 lasted about 35000 miles with front pads already changed at 16000 miles, I was looking forward to a bill of around £3k just for the disks all round and more to include pads. Bearing in mind I would like to think I’ll keep this car to 50,000 miles or so are the ceramics worth the investment?
I’m not fussed about braking power as I don’t track the car, I’m simply looking at £’s here....albeit I suspect they are a brilliant bit of kit!
Anyone with any experience on these lovely braking systems?
My M5 does not have ceramics and whilst the brakes are fine, it’s still one option I wish it did have.
Plenty of my previous cars have had ceramic brakes, as does my current R8, and I do think it’s harder to go back to steels once you’ve had them. As has been mentioned, they don’t stop you any quicker and they can be a bit disconcerting in the wet (although my previous F12 M6 had ceramics and BMW’s self drying tech seemed to mitigate the issue in that car).
What they do have is excellent and, most importantly, consistent feel. They always feel great, pretty much whatever you put them through on the road. They create no brake dust and they look great.
They are also (in my experience) very robust for road driving as you don’t get any vibration or groaning from hard use as you can sometimes get from steels, especially on heavy cars like M5’s where I always get the impression the weight and performance are stretching the steel brakes.
I do find the steel brakes on my F90 M5 can squeal loudly, especially when they’re dirty. The car is so well insulated that you only hear it when you’ve got the window open. Conversely, ceramics in my experience across BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche over the last 6 years have not been noisy at all, save for some low speed grinding-like noise (much more subtle and less irritating than squealing).
Plenty of my previous cars have had ceramic brakes, as does my current R8, and I do think it’s harder to go back to steels once you’ve had them. As has been mentioned, they don’t stop you any quicker and they can be a bit disconcerting in the wet (although my previous F12 M6 had ceramics and BMW’s self drying tech seemed to mitigate the issue in that car).
What they do have is excellent and, most importantly, consistent feel. They always feel great, pretty much whatever you put them through on the road. They create no brake dust and they look great.
They are also (in my experience) very robust for road driving as you don’t get any vibration or groaning from hard use as you can sometimes get from steels, especially on heavy cars like M5’s where I always get the impression the weight and performance are stretching the steel brakes.
I do find the steel brakes on my F90 M5 can squeal loudly, especially when they’re dirty. The car is so well insulated that you only hear it when you’ve got the window open. Conversely, ceramics in my experience across BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche over the last 6 years have not been noisy at all, save for some low speed grinding-like noise (much more subtle and less irritating than squealing).
Thanks for the replies.
What about day-to-day cleaning etc., what happens if some snow foam for example falls on the disks.....are they then toast?
Edited to add over the last couple of years I’ve had at least one or two small stones trapped somewhere in my braking system, normally resolved by reversing quickly! does a small stone perhaps creating a line in the disk encourage the wallet to be opened?
What about day-to-day cleaning etc., what happens if some snow foam for example falls on the disks.....are they then toast?
Edited to add over the last couple of years I’ve had at least one or two small stones trapped somewhere in my braking system, normally resolved by reversing quickly! does a small stone perhaps creating a line in the disk encourage the wallet to be opened?
Edited by HoHoHo on Monday 11th March 06:38
HoHoHo said:
Thanks for the replies.
What about day-to-day cleaning etc., what happens if some snow foam for example falls on the disks.....are they then toast?
Edited to add over the last couple of years I’ve had at least one or two small stones trapped somewhere in my braking system, normally resolved by reversing quickly! does a small stone perhaps creating a line in the disk encourage the wallet to be opened?
No issue with general car cleaning products, and I’ve used several over the years on cars with ceramic brakes.What about day-to-day cleaning etc., what happens if some snow foam for example falls on the disks.....are they then toast?
Edited to add over the last couple of years I’ve had at least one or two small stones trapped somewhere in my braking system, normally resolved by reversing quickly! does a small stone perhaps creating a line in the disk encourage the wallet to be opened?
Edited by HoHoHo on Monday 11th March 06:38
With regards stone chips, I got a couple of scares with my last two 911’s, where a stone got stuck between the back plate and the wheel. It scored the inside of the wheel and sounded horrendous, but didn’t get to the brakes. Dealer confirmed it was a common issue due to the lack of clearance between backing plate and wheel. I found that the backing plates seem larger and more robust where ceramics are fitted, leaving very little clearance between wheel and backing plate, and this is obviously designed to protect them more.
I have only had ceramic brakes on my Giulia Quadrifoglio and overall happy with them, except some very strange corrosion- using it over this winter with salt on the road - that appeared in 2 months, bearing in mind these only had 10.000 km on them. Personally, I feel CCB are a financial liability that is maybe not fully justified.
jm doc said:
I had a 911 with ceramic brakes. Motorway drives in the wet were especially a nightmare, If you hadn't used the brakes for a while they would get damp and cold and when you needed them again they were atrocious and if it was an emergency you could be in real trouble. I got into the habit of having to use them every 5 minutes or so to keep them warm and dry them out which on an 8 hour trip in wet conditions became quite tiring. I'm surprised they have approval for use on road cars and really can see no benefit to them at all except for track use.
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=846803PowerMatters said:
jm doc said:
I had a 911 with ceramic brakes. Motorway drives in the wet were especially a nightmare, If you hadn't used the brakes for a while they would get damp and cold and when you needed them again they were atrocious and if it was an emergency you could be in real trouble. I got into the habit of having to use them every 5 minutes or so to keep them warm and dry them out which on an 8 hour trip in wet conditions became quite tiring. I'm surprised they have approval for use on road cars and really can see no benefit to them at all except for track use.
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=846803Colinv6 said:
Yeah that doesn’t look very nice!!
Your actual discs look much more “fibrey” than the ones on my M4, mine are smooth with some very fine surface cracks which is normal.
Seeing as there’s no metal in them, failing to see where the rust comes from?
The floating pins are clearly steel hence the rust. Your actual discs look much more “fibrey” than the ones on my M4, mine are smooth with some very fine surface cracks which is normal.
Seeing as there’s no metal in them, failing to see where the rust comes from?
The0bald said:
Those used cars for sale with CC brakes don’t appear to carry a premium.
Does anyone with an F90 with either type of brake suffer from them screeching?
My F10 was terrible for it and that had steel so if CC meant it wouldn’t make any noise then I would consider them more for that than any other reason.
I have had three F90 M5's my first one had CCB, and TBH I wish the other two had them.Does anyone with an F90 with either type of brake suffer from them screeching?
My F10 was terrible for it and that had steel so if CC meant it wouldn’t make any noise then I would consider them more for that than any other reason.
Never had and "M' car with brake squeal, my LCI F90 is great.
Don't bother with them until you buy new IF you really don't like cleaning wheels.
I have found a great wheel cleaner which has a Rust inhibitor built in, "Brake Buster Total wheel cleaner", outstanding for cleaning wheels.
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