Sport 160 Buying Advice

[rjben]

Hi Gents,

I'm totally new to Lotus but really fancy an Elise for the summer. I have a background of TVR (Cerbera & Chim) so was thinking of something a little more potent than the standard Elise. Would a Sport 160 be the way to go? Is there some kind of a buyers guide or a link to a check list?

There are 2 on PH classified that I have noticed, any comments?

www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=40926&s=12

www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=41100&s=12

Thanks in advance,

Rob

[S Works]

I've heard mixed reports both good and bad about the 160's. In general they're more biased towards trackwork and I believe more 'lumpy' as a result at lower revs. Also some have problems with hot restart IIRC and various other niggles. I was tempted by one once and was warned off them by Miles @ Fibreglass Services who said they were just a pain in the backside to get right, regularly struggled to make the emissions tests at MOT time and you'd be better off with a Sport 135.

There's a driveability (dunno if thats exactly the right word for it!) upgrade which I believe helps, also getting verniers and having the timing set properly will improve things considerably. Some also go for an Emerald ECU with a remap.

I'm sure there are many previous threads discussing this subject (and various bods who know far better than I have expanded on the topic before - Bruce from Ragtop Roadsters being one I remember) so best to have a search. If in doubt give someone like Bruce, Wayne @ Sinclaires or Miles @ Fibreglass Services a call and have a chat to them before you go looking in seriousness.

Of the two links you posted, both look to be in decent condition but only a full checkout by a specialist will tell you what you want to know. Personal preference would be for black/red for no other reason than it looks bad-ass. I'd be looking at minimum to swap the rubber on both though which will cost in the region of £3-500 depending on what you choose.

Happy hunting. Tim

[rjben]

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to see the Black one, if it's any good it's going for an inspection at MORLAND JONES Hammersmith (for no other reason than the fact that it's close to home). Have you heard anything about these?

Also, when you say rubber I assume that you don't rate the new tyres on the black one? What would you recomend?

Thanks,

Rob

[S Works]

I've never heard of them - who are they?

If not a Lotus specialist I strongly suggest you try one or all of the following who come well recommended here and on SELOC:

Steve Williams in Maidenhead - www.swlotus.com 01628 770066.

Lakeside - Capital House, Woodham Park Road, Addlestone, Surrey KT15 3TG
Tel: [phone]
www.lakesideengineering.com/

Plans Motorsport
19 Dunsfold Park
Dunsfold
Surrey
GU6 8TB
www.plansmotorsport.com/contact/

If you don't mind travelling go to Miles @ Fibreglass Services in Arundel (might be a bit of a trek though and the above places are well known and respected).

With respect to the Pirellis, if they are PZero's (and they look like they are), they were not designed for the Elise and the footprint of the car is generally agreed to be too light for them to be as effective as they are on other brands/models. In the dry they are ok, in the wet very shady. If money is no object the generally accepted route to go is a full set of Yoko Advan Neova LTS's (specifically designed for the S1 Elise). If you need to budget many on here recommend Toyo TR-1's... see threads in the forum for more info.
I think it's generally accepted that the PZero's are cack though.

HTH


>> Edited by S Works on Wednesday 27th April 18:14

[rjben]

Once again, thanks for the help!


MORLAND JONES are apparently Lotus only specialists who specialise in restoration, service and engine rebuilds. Apparently they have 25 years experience!

Unfortunately the search facility does not seem to be working so I can't see if they have any history on here.

Cheers,

Rob

[340ragtop]

Hi - I am 'Bruce' of whom they speak!

Happy to give you advice on the 160 if you like - being an owner and also having upgraded / tweaked lots of them.

All depends what you want the car for - out of the box the best alrounders are the sport 135 and the 111s. For track work, best looks and fun on the open road (when set up right) it's a 160 every day.

IMHO the suspension and the engine need reworking considerably. An S160 with Nitrons, Advan Neova tyres, a 160 throttle body, a remap and a retime is simply sublime.

Notice you've come from high power, high torque cars though - don;t be fooled into thinking an elise can be the same- it's simply not about power with the elise - it's about corner speed and handling.

Cheers

[rjben]

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the reply. I'm buying the 160 for use on track and also the occasional weekend hoon. I'm new to track days, in fact my first time out was at Donnington in the Cerbera. That's when I decided to get something that handled! I don't expect the Elise to be TVR quick but I do hope it's going to be quickish upto 100mph.

I really want a car that's not going to cost a fortune to maintain for track work and will be relatively good for me from the outset. As for upgrades, well with my record that will be inevitable!

I'm thinking of taking it home to South Wales for a weekend (from London), just to get to grips with it, I assume that it's going to be an uncomfortable journey!

Cheers,

Rob

[ayjay]

My favourite Elise is the S160 and I got very close to buying one... BUT,,, unless the lumpy idle is sorted out (verniers etc), they can be a pain in the ass to drive at low speeds. Do also bear in mind that they require more frequent servicing and the insurance will be very high.

Instead, I bought a mint S1 111S and fitted an eliseparts zorts, hurricane and 160TB... The power was up and only just shy of the S160 and with the close-ratio gearbox and VVC engine, it absolutely flew all the way across the rev-raneg. The engine felt unburstable.

Having owned a few Loti now and been immersed in the Elise world for many years... my ultimate spec real-world S1 would be as follows:-

S1 111S
Eliseparts Zorst
Hurricane
160TB
Nitron suspension
Proper tyres
(essential toe-link kit)
Pagids
braided hoses

To be honest, you don't really need more without spending silly money.

[rjben]

Thanks Ayjay,

I'm giong to the balck one tonight and hopefully, if all is well, I'll get it inspected tomorrow and but it!

This is scarey stuff! I haven't even bought the car yet and there are a list of mods as long as my arm. Can somebody please tell me that this car is going to be great to drive in standard guise and work perfectly well on track for a beginner like me?

Cheers,

Rob

[S Works]

rjben said:

Can somebody please tell me that this car is going to be great to drive in standard guise and work perfectly well on track for a beginner like me?

BUUUT, it looks ing sweeeeeeeeet!

Be prepared to get your wallet out though almost as soon as you've bought it. Here's hoping for your sake that its had some of the above done.

[rjben]

S Works,

Please elaborate. Are you saying this car is going to be horrible without:

Suspension
Verniers
Throttle Body
Remap
...and finally tyres?

Don't forget, I'm used to a very hard poor handling car (Cerbera), is this going to worse than that?

Thanks,

Rob

[dannylt]

A standard Elise's handling will blow you away if all you're used to is a standard Cerbera. Actually, even a well sorted Cerbera will still feel heavy, and will have nowhere near the steering feel. But you'll need at least 160bhp to make it not feel slow, and you'll never have the same 120+ mph punch of the Cerbie.

[dannylt]

Oh, and the standard Elise is a far better track car cost-wise than a standard Cerbera. And, a Nitron-ed Elise is certainly a lot quicker than a standard one, but not necessarily more fun - so it's something you can do later.

[rjben]

Thank you! That is exactly what I wanted to hear!

Cheers,

Rob

[Davey S1]

ayjay said:

Instead, I bought a mint S1 111S and fitted an eliseparts zorts, hurricane and 160TB... The power was up and only just shy of the S160 and with the close-ratio gearbox and VVC engine, it absolutely flew all the way across the rev-raneg. The engine felt unburstable.

and then sold it when I became a hairdresser and bought one of these

[S Works]

rjben said:

S Works, Please elaborate. Are you saying this car is going to be horrible without: Suspension Verniers Throttle Body Remap ...and finally tyres? Don't forget, I'm used to a very hard poor handling car (Cerbera), is this going to worse than that? Thanks, Rob

Horrible? No, but I'm going back to your post where you said...

rjben said:

Can somebody please tell me that this car is going to be great to drive in standard guise and work perfectly well on track for a beginner like me?

I'm referring back to what Bruce noted in his post - he's someone who really knows the S160's well and I think you should take note of his main points...

340ragtop said:

Happy to give you advice on the 160 if you like - being an owner and also having upgraded / tweaked lots of them. All depends what you want the car for - out of the box the best alrounders are the sport 135 and the 111s. For track work, best looks and fun on the open road (when set up right) it's a 160 every day. IMHO the suspension and the engine need reworking considerably. An S160 with Nitrons, Advan Neova tyres, a 160 throttle body, a remap and a retime is simply sublime.

If I read him right, I think he's saying things which are consistent with opinions I've read before - if set up right, the S160 is a fantastic variant of the Elise, if not, then you'll have to get your wallet out and invest some time and money getting it there.

My suggestion would be to pick up the phone and give Bruce a call or email him and take up his offer. Then you'll be fully clued up as to what to look/listen/feel for and what questions to ask when you view.

Saying that car A will be faster round a track than car B just because it has this or that upgrade is total nonsense. A standard Elise in good hands will give hours of pleasure and enjoyment on road or track with handling poise that I guess will give you lots of smiles compared with a car of the size and dynamics of a Cerb. A well set up S160 in the same hands will probably blow away most things on 4 wheels, unless you have TURBO, 355, 360, Gallardo on the boot etc.

Hope that helps?
Tim

>> Edited by S Works on Thursday 28th April 13:47

[Martin_S]

dannylt said:

A standard Elise's handling will blow you away if all you're used to is a standard Cerbera. Actually, even a well sorted Cerbera will still feel heavy, and will have nowhere near the steering feel. But you'll need at least 160bhp to make it not feel slow, and you'll never have the same 120+ mph punch of the Cerbie.

Damn right!

The steering feel of the Elise is the best of any car I've ever driven (including any other Lotus) and the handling will be way, way ahead of the Cerbera, if not completely viceless (Lotus have never matched the poise and balance of the original '60's Elan for road use, IMHO).

But it won't match the punch of the Cerbera at any speed, let alone 120+ mph!

[rjben]

S Works said:

rjben said: S Works, Please elaborate. Are you saying this car is going to be horrible without: Suspension Verniers Throttle Body Remap ...and finally tyres? Don't forget, I'm used to a very hard poor handling car (Cerbera), is this going to worse than that? Thanks, Rob Horrible? No, but I'm going back to your post where you said... rjben said: Can somebody please tell me that this car is going to be great to drive in standard guise and work perfectly well on track for a beginner like me? I'm referring back to what Bruce noted in his post - he's someone who really knows the S160's well and I think you should take note of his main points... 340ragtop said: Happy to give you advice on the 160 if you like - being an owner and also having upgraded / tweaked lots of them. All depends what you want the car for - out of the box the best alrounders are the sport 135 and the 111s. For track work, best looks and fun on the open road (when set up right) it's a 160 every day. IMHO the suspension and the engine need reworking considerably. An S160 with Nitrons, Advan Neova tyres, a 160 throttle body, a remap and a retime is simply sublime. If I read him right, I think he's saying things which are consistent with opinions I've read before - if set up right, the S160 is a fantastic variant of the Elise, if not, then you'll have to get your wallet out and invest some time and money getting it there. My suggestion would be to pick up the phone and give Bruce a call or email him and take up his offer. Then you'll be fully clued up as to what to look/listen/feel for and what questions to ask when you view. Saying that car A will be faster round a track than car B just because it has this or that upgrade is total nonsense. A standard Elise in good hands will give hours of pleasure and enjoyment on road or track with handling poise that I guess will give you lots of smiles compared with a car of the size and dynamics of a Cerb. A well set up S160 in the same hands will probably blow away most things on 4 wheels, unless you have TURBO, 355, 360, Gallardo on the boot etc. Hope that helps? Tim >> Edited by S Works on Thursday 28th April 13:47

Tim, that helps loads! Thank you very much.

Looks like I'm getting a good base car that will grow with my trackday experience and my wallet!

Cheers,

Rob

[tricky 100]

I had sport160 for a while and never had any problems with it . Drivability was fine , ok tick over was lumpy but that just made it sound better , and not like a sewing machine . You dont buy an elise because its easy to live with, MX5'S do that. Much better than any standard or the bell and colville upgraded ones that i ve owned.
Plus you dont have to buy any silly " zorchts ,cans , induction kits " .

[ayjay]

Davey S1 said:

ayjay said: Instead, I bought a mint S1 111S and fitted an eliseparts zorts, hurricane and 160TB... The power was up and only just shy of the S160 and with the close-ratio gearbox and VVC engine, it absolutely flew all the way across the rev-raneg. The engine felt unburstable. and then sold it when I became a hairdresser and bought one of these

must admit that i'm a little bored of it now... i had to save some cash and the missus had a mx5 so couldn't really justify having two 2-seaters and no practical car.

now toying with the idea of flogging the saab and buying a £2.5k Audi A4 and a £8k Westfield for the weekend

we'll see