997 Gen 1 to Gen 2 conversion V Hartech £10k rebuild

[Rossco196x]

Hi folks thanks for all the replies relating to my 997 engine needing a rebuild.

I did ask for advice on converting from a Gen 1 3.8 to the Gen 2 and fully accept this isn't plug and play however can any one advise what the fundemental differences are in terms of get the engine to fit in particular enging mounts, gearbox fitment and exhaust manifold connections etc. I would think the existing Gen 1 loom could be retro fitted as i'm not aware of any additional sensors that need to be incorporated but what about the ECU or is this simply to adventurous to be worth considering. I've seen a post of it being done on the Cayman.

Its basically just over £10k to do the full Hartech rebuild if i just drop the car off with them and i will still have a (all be it) a 997 with an IMS that might also develop the same issues of bore scoring etc in the future.

Are there any reports of Hartech rebuilt 3.8's covering over 100k miles

Thanks

[ScienceTeacher]

The Hartech rebuild is bullet proof. It would be inconceivable / very expensive indeed to successfully convert to a 9A1 from the M97 lump. Bonkers. Do the Hartech, they're great.

[systech]

Lots of changes to wiring, exhaust, airbox, DME, driveshafts, changes to spoiler etc etc and clearly a nightmare (and worse if not manual gearbox)

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=103105&highli...

[Slippydiff]

systech said:

Lots of changes to wiring, exhaust, airbox, DME, driveshafts, changes to spoiler etc etc and clearly a nightmare (and worse if not manual gearbox)

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=103105&highli...

And the clocks as well IIRC. No doubt the fuel supply system for the DFi engine is significantly different too. Much as I like the idea of a 3.8 Gen S engine with 385hp (and easily tweaked to 400+hp with some choice/ well thought out mods) it just doesn't stack up financially.

[EGTE]

Even if you could do it for the same money, the value of your car would most likely take a big hit, come re-sale.

[Benny McCafferty]

Just wondered I know it's an old thread or topic but does anyone know if there is a 997 gen 1 that's been converted to gen 2 yet I might take it on see what's involved

[Discombobulate]

Benny McCafferty said:

Just wondered I know it's an old thread or topic but does anyone know if there is a 997 gen 1 that's been converted to gen 2 yet I might take it on see what's involved

Not that I know of. But some Hartech rebuilt cars with 90K + and going strong.
I have a 4.1 conversion and would go for this over a 997.2 every day. Great engine.

[ChrisW.]

I believe that Lichfield did a Gen1 to Gen2 engine transplant for a journalist ... it took ages, was a world of pain, and I'm not sure that we heard the final outcome ??

[mr pg]

ChrisW. said:

I believe that Lichfield did a Gen1 to Gen2 engine transplant for a journalist ... it took ages, was a world of pain, and I'm not sure that we heard the final outcome ??

Jethro Bovingdon had a 4l (I thnk) put in his 996. Seem to recall it took a lot of fettling.

[ChrisW.]

Good call ...

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/205873/porsche-9...

I don't believe that he stayed happy ... suspension was returned to standard ?? But I guess that's a different story ...

[TDT]

It was a 991 3.8 put into Jethro’s car.

[LemonTart]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gbgDFMzqu7w&pp=y...

This one

[FriedMarsBar]

Discombobulate said:

Not that I know of. But some Hartech rebuilt cars with 90K + and going strong.
I have a 4.1 conversion and would go for this over a 997.2 every day. Great engine.

I'm the proud owner of gen 2 but if I had a gen 1, in the right colour with the right options, and I could afford a Hartech rebuild (and capacity expansion) I would LOVE to go this route.

Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 30th January 10:34

Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 30th January 12:03

[FriedMarsBar]

mr pg said:

Jethro Bovingdon had a 4l (I thnk) put in his 996. Seem to recall it took a lot of fettling.

It was years being completed and I imagine if you were paying commercial rates, which JB wasn't, it would surely be ruinous. From memory a custom loom was required, a custom exhaust, new engine mounts in the rear shell and possibly a custom ECU? on top of the issues the encountered and the initial cost of the 9A1 engine.

Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 30th January 10:35

[Discombobulate]

FriedMarsBar said:

I'm the proud owner of gen 2 but if I had a gen 1, in the right colour with the right options, and I could afford a Hartech rebuild (and capacity expansion) I would LOVE tog this route.

Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 30th January 10:34

Feels like a torquier GTS

[FriedMarsBar]

Discombobulate said:

Feels like a torquier GTS

Perfect car in my opinion, you have the sound of the gen 1 and torque

[LordHaveMurci]

FriedMarsBar said:

It was years being completed and I imagine if you were paying commercial rates, which JB wasn't, it would surely be ruinous. From memory a custom loom was required, a custom exhaust, new engine mounts in the rear shell and possibly a custom ECU? on top of the issues the encountered and the initial cost of the 9A1 engine.

Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 30th January 10:35

Read the EVO article recently & pretty sure he said the exhaust cost him the same as he orginally paid for the car!

[FriedMarsBar]

LordHaveMurci said:

Read the EVO article recently & pretty sure he said the exhaust cost him the same as he orginally paid for the car!

Jesus H Christ!!!

I've seen a couple of updates about on YT but didn't go into huge detail on the costs. I think I'm right in saying that Litchfields took it to use it as potential thing to offer customers but quickly realised it was too much work and costs and nobody would every do it again.

[f6box]

FriedMarsBar said:

Jesus H Christ!!!

I've seen a couple of updates about on YT but didn't go into huge detail on the costs. I think I'm right in saying that Litchfields took it to use it as potential thing to offer customers but quickly realised it was too much work and costs and nobody would every do it again.

As much as I'm a fan of Jethro and 996s, hard to make sense of that project. Even at mates rates for some of the work, he must be well on the way to having invested 996.2 GT3 money into the thing. And, honestly, I'd far rather have a 996.2 GT3. I'm sure the 9A1 3.8 is giving it lots of shove. But character matters. And that's before you get into recouping your investment at resale etc.

Reminds me of another Evo project car, Barker's Capri, though that was arguably a fair bit worse from what little I recall. Both classic examples of sunk cost fallacy leading people astray, I fear!

[Slippydiff]

FriedMarsBar said:

LordHaveMurci said:

Read the EVO article recently & pretty sure he said the exhaust cost him the same as he orginally paid for the car!

Jesus H Christ!!!

I've seen a couple of updates about on YT but didn't go into huge detail on the costs. I think I'm right in saying that Litchfields took it to use it as potential thing to offer customers but quickly realised it was too much work and costs and nobody would every do it again.

Correct, and Ian Litchfield has since estimated the cost of the conversion to have been £60k plus, in his own words, he basically stopped counting at £60k …

They did indeed undertake it as they thought there might be mileage in doing future conversions for customers, but Ian has since said they wouldn’t entertain doing another …
As the Yanks would say “Go figure”.

There are multiple issues in converting a non-DFi platform to run a DFi power train, non of them insurmountable, but the considerable labour required for such an undertaking isn’t cheap these days, nor are decent standalone ECU’s compatible with modern (ish) canbus systems, and that’s without the cost of having a custom loom made up, or the existing loom adapted.
Porsche aren’t helping with massive price increases on their parts either …

The exhaust was a pointless extravagance that JB wanted, and the cost of the exhaust could have been reduced drastically, by buying off the shelf componentry.