Any electricians in the house...?
Discussion
I know this is *way* off-topic but you lot are a knowledgable bunch and would clearly approve of me wanting to save money on an electrician so I can buy more optimax so what the hell...
About half the time we use our iron (Tefal) in the kitchen it throws the breaker circuit box which just supplies the kitchen. You can plug it in and use it for a bit and it's fine but then suddenly it throws the circuit. Then when you plug it back in after resetting the breaker the iron works fine until you move it from vertical (sitting on it's arse) to horizontal (to iron) and it throws the breaker. The iron is rated at 1800W. I run the dishwasher, the tumble dryer, the washing machine, the fridge/freezer and the toaster and none of them trip the circuit until I move the iron from vertical to horizontal and all the above appliances go off and the circuit is tripped.
If I plug the iron into an extension lead into a socket in the dining room (a circuit not on the kitchen circuit breaker) and use the iron it's fine and the power stays on.
My guess is that water accumulates in the iron during use and after a bit there's enough to cause a bit of a short when the iron is moved to horizontal. This is enough of a short to throw the sensitive breaker circuit but not enough to throw the main house circuit breaker.
So to solve the problem I think I should get a new iron (the old one is just over a year old, predictably) but I'm confused as to why it works everywhere else in the house.
I'm far from being knowledgable on the matter and don't want to blow myself (well, I don't do that much of the ironing) or the missus to kingdom come so any better guesses as to the cause of the trippages would be most welcome.
Thanks very much,
Mark
>>> Edited by mhibbins on Thursday 12th September 21:56
About half the time we use our iron (Tefal) in the kitchen it throws the breaker circuit box which just supplies the kitchen. You can plug it in and use it for a bit and it's fine but then suddenly it throws the circuit. Then when you plug it back in after resetting the breaker the iron works fine until you move it from vertical (sitting on it's arse) to horizontal (to iron) and it throws the breaker. The iron is rated at 1800W. I run the dishwasher, the tumble dryer, the washing machine, the fridge/freezer and the toaster and none of them trip the circuit until I move the iron from vertical to horizontal and all the above appliances go off and the circuit is tripped.
If I plug the iron into an extension lead into a socket in the dining room (a circuit not on the kitchen circuit breaker) and use the iron it's fine and the power stays on.
My guess is that water accumulates in the iron during use and after a bit there's enough to cause a bit of a short when the iron is moved to horizontal. This is enough of a short to throw the sensitive breaker circuit but not enough to throw the main house circuit breaker.
So to solve the problem I think I should get a new iron (the old one is just over a year old, predictably) but I'm confused as to why it works everywhere else in the house.
I'm far from being knowledgable on the matter and don't want to blow myself (well, I don't do that much of the ironing) or the missus to kingdom come so any better guesses as to the cause of the trippages would be most welcome.
Thanks very much,
Mark
>>> Edited by mhibbins on Thursday 12th September 21:56
OK.
Rule number one. Breakers are there for a reason. If it breaks then you have a problem and hence need to get it fixed! Just "tripping" it back after a few minutes is a bit like sticking your finger into a serious wound - whilst it might stop the blood, you really need to go and get it sorted by a professional.
Rule number 2. If something trips more than 2 times, then *STOP USING IT*. Trips are there for 2 reasons - a) there is excess current or 2) there is current going to earth. Neither is good, and *both* can kill you - so stop using it!
Two reason why your iron may be tripping the circuit.
a) There is a loose connection, and every time you move it from horizontal to vertical the live is going either straight to neutral or ground.
b) There is some other fault with the element or plug, and the movement of the cable is causing the excess current to flow, and that is causing 1) above.
For both - *please* stop using the iron, and either throw it away, or take it back to an approved repair centre who will check it for you. What ever you do, do not carry on using it - most irons are now double insulated (i.e. they have no earth due to the "double" wall of insulator between you and any electricity), but if you have an old iron then it may not be doubly insulated and you could easily kill yourself if you carry on using it.
You've answered your own question really, in that all the other appliances are fine, but it's just the iron. QED - the iron is shagged.....
Please please STOP using it and either get it checked, or throw it away and get a new one. Do NOT plug it back in unless you go and get it checked out.
Fundamentally a circuit breaker should *never* trip, if it does - then something is wrong and so don't just keep on resetting it!
Joust (BEng in Electrical and Electronic Engineering who as part of my course was shown pictures of what can happen to people and 220V - not nice if you just happen to involve a better conductor than skin....)
Rule number one. Breakers are there for a reason. If it breaks then you have a problem and hence need to get it fixed! Just "tripping" it back after a few minutes is a bit like sticking your finger into a serious wound - whilst it might stop the blood, you really need to go and get it sorted by a professional.
Rule number 2. If something trips more than 2 times, then *STOP USING IT*. Trips are there for 2 reasons - a) there is excess current or 2) there is current going to earth. Neither is good, and *both* can kill you - so stop using it!
Two reason why your iron may be tripping the circuit.
a) There is a loose connection, and every time you move it from horizontal to vertical the live is going either straight to neutral or ground.
b) There is some other fault with the element or plug, and the movement of the cable is causing the excess current to flow, and that is causing 1) above.
For both - *please* stop using the iron, and either throw it away, or take it back to an approved repair centre who will check it for you. What ever you do, do not carry on using it - most irons are now double insulated (i.e. they have no earth due to the "double" wall of insulator between you and any electricity), but if you have an old iron then it may not be doubly insulated and you could easily kill yourself if you carry on using it.
You've answered your own question really, in that all the other appliances are fine, but it's just the iron. QED - the iron is shagged.....
Please please STOP using it and either get it checked, or throw it away and get a new one. Do NOT plug it back in unless you go and get it checked out.
Fundamentally a circuit breaker should *never* trip, if it does - then something is wrong and so don't just keep on resetting it!
Joust (BEng in Electrical and Electronic Engineering who as part of my course was shown pictures of what can happen to people and 220V - not nice if you just happen to involve a better conductor than skin....)
quote:
Joust (BEng in Electrical and Electronic Engineering who as part of my course was shown pictures of what can happen to people and 220V - not nice if you just happen to involve a better conductor than skin....)
I thought we used 240V and it was changing to 230V
Farmboy (can twist two 12V wires together without blowing a fuse - sometimes
)
Part of the BEAB approval tests requires that the appliance in question must be safe to operate at a significantly higher voltage for a prolonged period, so most things are designed to operate over a wide voltage range nowadays. It's always worth looking for BEAB approval. The number of devices that get rejected for safety reasons either by design or by inspection of the manufacturing facilities is higher than you might think. That speaks volumes about those manufacturers who don't bother seeking BEAB approval.
If we have the washing machine on plus the tumble dryer plus the dishwasher and I put the kettle on, the trip goes – too many heating elements etc – building up and overloading me 16 fuse (I think).
Gonna put in a new 32 amp and put two of the four on that.
Well I'm not personally you understand ... me sparky is.
Electricity – can be dangerous ... if you can't SEE it etc ...
Gonna put in a new 32 amp and put two of the four on that.
Well I'm not personally you understand ... me sparky is.
Electricity – can be dangerous ... if you can't SEE it etc ...
I used to work in Horticultural machinery Sale & repair (Posh way of saying "Lawnmower Shop") and the Cylindrical grinder, which was run off a 3 pin 13 amp plug, was forever blowing fuses, so the owner of the shop decided to remedy the situation once and for all. He hacksawed the head off of a 1/4 inch bolt and used the threaded section as a replacement fuse!! 
The plug did get a bit warm, but we never managed to blow another fuse!
The plug did get a bit warm, but we never managed to blow another fuse! Irons can do that simply due to power surge when they switch on. An old fashioned fuse would cope, but breakers are a bit more fickle and will trip. A different iron might "fix" it, but in fact there *might* not be anything at all wrong with the old one. Ask yourself why the other ring doesn't trip when you use it on an extension! Its just the combined background load in the kitchen (fridge/freezer, and probably washing machine/tumble dryer if its wash/iron day!). The surge from the iron is the straw that breaks the camels back.
I had fun with this after installing my home office, as for some reason that one bedroom is on the same ring as the kitchen, and when the missus was ironing it would trip and bring down my computers! Solution - she uses an extension now. No problems. And the iron is fine, no faults.
BTW, I'm sure everyone realises that fuses/breakers are there for a purpose? Replace with a higher rating and you do risk overloading. You don't really want your ring main acting as a secondary central heating system! Replace with a bolt (!), or the old favourite of wrapping the fuse in silver paper, and you are asking to be fried to a crisp. Don't mess!
PS I a NOT a qualified electrician, but I did serve 3 years as an apprentice before being made redundant (to make way for another apprentice - lower wages).
I had fun with this after installing my home office, as for some reason that one bedroom is on the same ring as the kitchen, and when the missus was ironing it would trip and bring down my computers! Solution - she uses an extension now. No problems. And the iron is fine, no faults.
BTW, I'm sure everyone realises that fuses/breakers are there for a purpose? Replace with a higher rating and you do risk overloading. You don't really want your ring main acting as a secondary central heating system! Replace with a bolt (!), or the old favourite of wrapping the fuse in silver paper, and you are asking to be fried to a crisp. Don't mess!
PS I a NOT a qualified electrician, but I did serve 3 years as an apprentice before being made redundant (to make way for another apprentice - lower wages).
quote:The iron won't trip the switch when it comes on (when the thermostat realises the iron is too cold and heats up the element again) but only when I tip it from vertical to horizontal and then only after I've been using it for 10 minutes or so. It trips the breaker in exactly the same fashion regardless of what else is on... in other words it'll happily sit on the side switching intself on and off over time even when all the other appliances are running and only trip when moved to horizontal.
Irons can do that simply due to power surge when they switch on. An old fashioned fuse would cope, but breakers are a bit more fickle and will trip. A different iron might "fix" it, but in fact there *might* not be anything at all wrong with the old one. Ask yourself why the other ring doesn't trip when you use it on an extension! Its just the combined background load in the kitchen (fridge/freezer, and probably washing machine/tumble dryer if its wash/iron day!). The surge from the iron is the straw that breaks the camels back.
I think the chaps are right, new iron time. How do they know when they are just out of warranty?
Thanks,
Mark
quote:
Excuse my ignorance but....
What's an iron ??
Ask Mrs Corrigible
Amusingly enough, we recently had a purge of unused tat in our house (well, garage).. I disposed of a Tefal iron bought for me by a kindly old aunt as a present when I went away to Uni. Having disposed of it this week, it was used twice is precisely 10 years
>> Edited by CarZee on Friday 13th September 10:25
Mark, you did the right thing mate, binning the iron. Our old Phillips knacker did precisely the same thing until it decided one night to catch fire when I was pressing me work shirts with the damn thing.
The look on Emma's face as she said to her sister on the phone "I'll have to go now Jen, Greg's just caught fire"
No major burns - it just flamed a bit and fizzed until I pulled the plug. Oh, and it blew the breaker - no change there.
Incidentally, if you've got money to burn you may wish to invest in a steam generating iron - ours is Tefal and cost about 150 smackers (God, I'm talking irining here...) - excellent bit of kit and really has cut ironing time - not my favorite chore.
The look on Emma's face as she said to her sister on the phone "I'll have to go now Jen, Greg's just caught fire"
No major burns - it just flamed a bit and fizzed until I pulled the plug. Oh, and it blew the breaker - no change there.
Incidentally, if you've got money to burn you may wish to invest in a steam generating iron - ours is Tefal and cost about 150 smackers (God, I'm talking irining here...) - excellent bit of kit and really has cut ironing time - not my favorite chore.
Breakers or mcb's (miniature circuit breakers) trip for two reasons: short circuit and overload. Short circuit happens when there is a dead short between the live conductor and neutral (or earth). Overload occurs when there is a high current draw on a mcb greater than its rated current. So if a 20A mcb passes 21A it will trip after a while. This occurs due to a thermal overload in the mcb. This can also occur if there is a high resistance short between live and neutral (or earth).
So your iron may be causing the kitchen to trip as it adds just enough load to trip the kitchen with all the other appliances too. A kitchen should have at least two socket circuits. The iron may not be at fault as it works fine on the other circuit. My advise would be to get it checked out by a technician. If its just out of warranty, why not get a friend to buy the exact iron and you bring yours back with their up to date receipt? Else chuck it irons are cheap and the manufacturers don't bother with servicable items much any more.
So your iron may be causing the kitchen to trip as it adds just enough load to trip the kitchen with all the other appliances too. A kitchen should have at least two socket circuits. The iron may not be at fault as it works fine on the other circuit. My advise would be to get it checked out by a technician. If its just out of warranty, why not get a friend to buy the exact iron and you bring yours back with their up to date receipt? Else chuck it irons are cheap and the manufacturers don't bother with servicable items much any more.
Boring fact No..............
The use of RCD's (residual current detectors-sorry can't remember the PC name for them) to detect line-earth leakage has greatly improved domestic electrical safety.
The trip time of the original items was set to be below 75 milliseconds, which is the spacing of the human cardiac rythem.
However "newer" ones can trip in as little 40 mSec with a current of 30mAmps thus increasing greatly your chance of avoiding electrocution.........ZZZZZZZZZZZ Mojo.
The use of RCD's (residual current detectors-sorry can't remember the PC name for them) to detect line-earth leakage has greatly improved domestic electrical safety.
The trip time of the original items was set to be below 75 milliseconds, which is the spacing of the human cardiac rythem.
However "newer" ones can trip in as little 40 mSec with a current of 30mAmps thus increasing greatly your chance of avoiding electrocution.........ZZZZZZZZZZZ Mojo.
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