Discussion
Inspired by the thread about Donald Crowhurst I'm thinking of doing a 'competent crew' course, just having sailed dinghys in the past. Typically these courses are five days with 5 ish students plus instructor living on the boat. What I'm a bit bothered about is what it's like living on board. Can you sleep comfortably? Do you get much chance to sleep at all? What do you do about showers? How fit do you need to be?
Obviously such matters are irrelevant for a true adventurer, but for someone just curious and middle aged whose idea of slumming it is an economy flight and a 2 star hotel it's rather important.
Obviously such matters are irrelevant for a true adventurer, but for someone just curious and middle aged whose idea of slumming it is an economy flight and a 2 star hotel it's rather important.
I'm doing my competent crew course after Easter in Southampton as part of an overall program to get my Day Skipper this year. It would be an unusual competent crew course that had you sleeping at sea, all the courses I've seen have you moored at a harbour overnight. I'd not expect to even consider sleeping at sea unless you were doing coastal skipper or above?
The company I booked with gives you the option to stay on the boat either sharing a cabin or pay a bit extra to sleep in a room by yourself, or you can arrange to stay in a hotel overnight at your own expense.
The four of us (kids are adult sized now) slept on board on our holiday last year on a 36" 6 berth. The bedrooms at the stern are plenty big enough but lack head room due to the cockpit intruding. The bedroom at the forepeak narrows to a point, and is a big tight for two unless you like your legs overlapping each other. Our boat was smaller than most training boats I have seen but offered plenty of room. I'd expect most training boats to cram in a few extra single bunks in the lounge.
In a big/walled harbour the boat doesn't really rock at night or generate much slap from the water. Personally I don't like mooring in an harbour open to a channel or sea as you can get more waves thus the boat rocks/generates more noise.
When you thinking of doing the course? Outside of UK summer weather I'd consider a decent sleeping bag essential on a training boat, and it'd still be a good idea in the summer as its a lot less faff than taking and using normal bedding.
The training company should be supplying foul weather gear as its expensive and pointless for the average fair weather Med day sailor to bother buying any.
Best way to think about it is that yachts are motorhomes that just happen to go on the water.
The company I booked with gives you the option to stay on the boat either sharing a cabin or pay a bit extra to sleep in a room by yourself, or you can arrange to stay in a hotel overnight at your own expense.
The four of us (kids are adult sized now) slept on board on our holiday last year on a 36" 6 berth. The bedrooms at the stern are plenty big enough but lack head room due to the cockpit intruding. The bedroom at the forepeak narrows to a point, and is a big tight for two unless you like your legs overlapping each other. Our boat was smaller than most training boats I have seen but offered plenty of room. I'd expect most training boats to cram in a few extra single bunks in the lounge.
In a big/walled harbour the boat doesn't really rock at night or generate much slap from the water. Personally I don't like mooring in an harbour open to a channel or sea as you can get more waves thus the boat rocks/generates more noise.
When you thinking of doing the course? Outside of UK summer weather I'd consider a decent sleeping bag essential on a training boat, and it'd still be a good idea in the summer as its a lot less faff than taking and using normal bedding.
The training company should be supplying foul weather gear as its expensive and pointless for the average fair weather Med day sailor to bother buying any.
Best way to think about it is that yachts are motorhomes that just happen to go on the water.
How small is 'small'? How tall are you?
A modern cruising yacht of 34' LOA should just about have three sleeping cabins that will have 6' double berths. A fourth couple can usually be accommodated in the saloon by some clever arrangement with the dining table (i.e. short legs that will bring it down to the same level as the surrounding sofas). You'd probably get 6'+ standing headroom in the centre of the saloon.
The heads will be fairly basic but functions like a tiny wet room - there will be some kind of bracket on the wall for a shower head, although frequency of showers will be limited by how big your water tanks are and you'll only get hot water if you've run the engine recently.
A modern cruising yacht of 34' LOA should just about have three sleeping cabins that will have 6' double berths. A fourth couple can usually be accommodated in the saloon by some clever arrangement with the dining table (i.e. short legs that will bring it down to the same level as the surrounding sofas). You'd probably get 6'+ standing headroom in the centre of the saloon.
The heads will be fairly basic but functions like a tiny wet room - there will be some kind of bracket on the wall for a shower head, although frequency of showers will be limited by how big your water tanks are and you'll only get hot water if you've run the engine recently.
I'd imagine you will be in a marina each night so showers etc will all be land based and fine.Most of the main marinas have excellent facilities these days. Did a 5 day day skipper course last year (Solent) and was fine on the boat. Get one of the saloon berths if you don't want to feel too claustrophobic. There isn't a lot of space and its pretty cosy but generally it will be fine. Take a sleeping bag, pillow and a towel, and go for layers of clothes.
I did my Comp Crew ticket whilst in the military so the "living on top of each other" bit was already taken as read, but I'd say this is probably the more difficult bit to "learn" than the actual sailing.
You'll have no privacy, and will be spending a large portion of your day (if not 24hrs) with the same people in the same small space and that can get really, really tedious - you can't be best mates with all of them yet you have to get along to make the boat work.
Try not be critical of the rest of the crew, accept the way they do/like/want things and try not be too demanding. If someone's making brews just accept one. Coming back with "Ooh yeah, I'd love a cup of my special low fat decaf organic fair trade lemon grass and rhino dung infusion. You can't leave the bag in too long though and milk....just a tiny splash of that zero-fat Afghan yak's milk with my name on the carton" won't make you any friends.
The usual drill is six identical brews appear on the table. Take one. Enjoy.
The lack of fuss is what I enjoy(ed) about it.
You'll have no privacy, and will be spending a large portion of your day (if not 24hrs) with the same people in the same small space and that can get really, really tedious - you can't be best mates with all of them yet you have to get along to make the boat work.
Try not be critical of the rest of the crew, accept the way they do/like/want things and try not be too demanding. If someone's making brews just accept one. Coming back with "Ooh yeah, I'd love a cup of my special low fat decaf organic fair trade lemon grass and rhino dung infusion. You can't leave the bag in too long though and milk....just a tiny splash of that zero-fat Afghan yak's milk with my name on the carton" won't make you any friends.
The usual drill is six identical brews appear on the table. Take one. Enjoy.
The lack of fuss is what I enjoy(ed) about it.
Dr Jekyll said:
Inspired by the thread about Donald Crowhurst I'm thinking of doing a 'competent crew' course, just having sailed dinghys in the past. Typically these courses are five days with 5 ish students plus instructor living on the boat. What I'm a bit bothered about is what it's like living on board. Can you sleep comfortably? Do you get much chance to sleep at all? What do you do about showers? How fit do you need to be?
Obviously such matters are irrelevant for a true adventurer, but for someone just curious and middle aged whose idea of slumming it is an economy flight and a 2 star hotel it's rather important.
Yes, you can sleep fairly comfortably although as a word of warning depending on the sex of the attendees you may up sharing a double cabin/bed with someone the same sex as yourself!Obviously such matters are irrelevant for a true adventurer, but for someone just curious and middle aged whose idea of slumming it is an economy flight and a 2 star hotel it's rather important.
I was lucky and got the cabin bed to myself, it's probabaly the most uncomfy bed on the boat but i had it to myself. After a days sailing you'll more than likely get a good nights sleep!
On my course we only spend one night 'at sea', the rest of the nights were spent in marinas where you could get a shower, etc.
Fitness really shouldn't be an issue and 99% of people really shouldn't have a problem.
You'll sleep fine as you'll be tired and quite possibly drunk. Just make sure you've sorted the things that can annoy you before you go to bed...squeaking warps, banging halyards, fenders tapping on the topsides. TAKE EARPLUGS.
You don't have to be very fit on a yacht. It can be a bit odd as there may be 2 minutes of frantic physical work grinding a winch, then you're sat for 30 mins doing very little. So you get hot and sweaty, and then cold.
TBH on a yacht not bothering too much about showers and shaving etc is part of the deal...as has been pointed out it's something to be done in a marina, not on board. As is taking a dump, by the way, especially with people you've not really met before...
It's a great hobby...enjoy!
You don't have to be very fit on a yacht. It can be a bit odd as there may be 2 minutes of frantic physical work grinding a winch, then you're sat for 30 mins doing very little. So you get hot and sweaty, and then cold.
TBH on a yacht not bothering too much about showers and shaving etc is part of the deal...as has been pointed out it's something to be done in a marina, not on board. As is taking a dump, by the way, especially with people you've not really met before...
It's a great hobby...enjoy!
Tempest_5 said:
I did my competent crew with someone who snored. I got the best sleep next to the Diesel when it was running as it blotted out the rest of the noises.
I tried not to think of something failing and a piston coming out of the block.
Why would the engine be running when you were sleeping?I tried not to think of something failing and a piston coming out of the block.
Be aware that not everybody on the boat may be doing Comp Crew... so there may be one or more people doing Day Skip or Coastal Skipper. If they're doing Coastal Skipper they will be required to do some night hours so you might not always be berthed in a marina at night (and might have to sleep next to a running engine!).
However, I did my Comp Crew and Day Skipper on a boat with a mixed crew some of whom were doing Coastal - imo it added to the interest and I experienced some elements of sailing that I otherwise might not have (night sailing, blind navigation etc).
As above I would highly recommend taking a pillow!
However, I did my Comp Crew and Day Skipper on a boat with a mixed crew some of whom were doing Coastal - imo it added to the interest and I experienced some elements of sailing that I otherwise might not have (night sailing, blind navigation etc).
As above I would highly recommend taking a pillow!
Edited by timbo999 on Monday 12th March 16:58
A few laughs at some of the comments in the above posts - 6 cups of tea come out of the hatch, all the same 
My 1st experience of sailing was Cowes week on a Contessa 32 (very small down below) 20 years ago. 6 of us lived on board for a week... it wasn't exactly comfortable, but a lot of booze before bed drowns out the snoring. Did that for 6 years, before the skipper upgraded to a 34ft Dufour, which was positively palatial below compared to the Contessa.
We mostly do off shore now on a Beneteau 45. Usually 6 up, and up to 5 nights on board. We run 4 hrs on, 4 hrs off watch rotas, and it's plenty comfortable off watch. Even when we're ashore, there's plenty of space for everyone to get a good nights sleep. I've not had a problem sleeping whilst racing off watch... once your horizontal you don't feel the boat movement anywhere near as much (unless the on-watch decide they need to put a few quick tacks in
)
Get yourself a good sleeping bag and a inflatable pillow. Take lots of layers - it's cold on deck at night even in the summer (I wear proper thermals at night most of the year). Be prepared not to wash/shower for a couple of days. I like to change my underwear daily, but some of our crew don't get out of their base layers for the duration of the race. The hot shower when you get back on land is lovely... remember to take a towel as most marinas don't provide them
My 1st experience of sailing was Cowes week on a Contessa 32 (very small down below) 20 years ago. 6 of us lived on board for a week... it wasn't exactly comfortable, but a lot of booze before bed drowns out the snoring. Did that for 6 years, before the skipper upgraded to a 34ft Dufour, which was positively palatial below compared to the Contessa.
We mostly do off shore now on a Beneteau 45. Usually 6 up, and up to 5 nights on board. We run 4 hrs on, 4 hrs off watch rotas, and it's plenty comfortable off watch. Even when we're ashore, there's plenty of space for everyone to get a good nights sleep. I've not had a problem sleeping whilst racing off watch... once your horizontal you don't feel the boat movement anywhere near as much (unless the on-watch decide they need to put a few quick tacks in
)Get yourself a good sleeping bag and a inflatable pillow. Take lots of layers - it's cold on deck at night even in the summer (I wear proper thermals at night most of the year). Be prepared not to wash/shower for a couple of days. I like to change my underwear daily, but some of our crew don't get out of their base layers for the duration of the race. The hot shower when you get back on land is lovely... remember to take a towel as most marinas don't provide them
I did my comp crew on a 34ft Victoria names zidona. With 6 if us on board. I should point out I’m military and am used to sluming it. There was not a lot of room. Lots of beer was consumed and we all snores and farted out way through. Needles to say it was arduous.
In terms of how fit you have to be. Not a lot really. What you learn is very basic. Although trying to teach a para how to tie a running hitch was how do I put this challenging.
Did my day skipper theory after that at gosport. Lots of maths involving navigating and tidal calculations. Enjoyable though.
Day skipper practical was done on a Nicholson ketch about 45 ft. Much nicer environment.
My only regret is living in the Midlands I haven’t really had much chance to keep up th skills required.
Do it though it’s a liberating experience being out at night on the seas.
Oh and if your a vegetarian maybe mention it before you go. Not sure how it’s done on civie courses but for us you were the nominated cook, cleaner, tea boy etc for one of the days with the skipper exempt. We had a vegetarian on our course (lt cmdr navy helicopter pilot) who thankfully accepted he would cook for himself as otherwise all the single pot meals you tend to cook aboard (chilly, stew, spag boll etc) become null and void and cooking becomes a PITA.
Zidona
|https://thumbsnap.com/Qpqo5Wkd[/url]
Sorry not sure how to rotate it
In terms of how fit you have to be. Not a lot really. What you learn is very basic. Although trying to teach a para how to tie a running hitch was how do I put this challenging.
Did my day skipper theory after that at gosport. Lots of maths involving navigating and tidal calculations. Enjoyable though.
Day skipper practical was done on a Nicholson ketch about 45 ft. Much nicer environment.
My only regret is living in the Midlands I haven’t really had much chance to keep up th skills required.
Do it though it’s a liberating experience being out at night on the seas.
Oh and if your a vegetarian maybe mention it before you go. Not sure how it’s done on civie courses but for us you were the nominated cook, cleaner, tea boy etc for one of the days with the skipper exempt. We had a vegetarian on our course (lt cmdr navy helicopter pilot) who thankfully accepted he would cook for himself as otherwise all the single pot meals you tend to cook aboard (chilly, stew, spag boll etc) become null and void and cooking becomes a PITA.
Zidona
|https://thumbsnap.com/Qpqo5Wkd[/url]Sorry not sure how to rotate it
Edited by MB140 on Tuesday 13th March 18:21
timbo999 said:
Be aware that not everybody on the boat may be doing Comp Crew... so there may be one or more people doing Day Skip or Coastal Skipper. If they're doing Coastal Skipper they will be required to do some night hours so you might not always be berthed in a marina at night (and might have to sleep next to a running engine!).
However, I did my Comp Crew and Day Skipper on a boat with a mixed crew some of whom were doing Coastal - imo it added to the interest and I experienced some elements of sailing that I otherwise might not have (night sailing, blind navigation etc).
As above I would highly recommend taking a pillow!
That surprises me. I'd have thought that a trainee skipper with a not yet competent crew would be a bad combination.However, I did my Comp Crew and Day Skipper on a boat with a mixed crew some of whom were doing Coastal - imo it added to the interest and I experienced some elements of sailing that I otherwise might not have (night sailing, blind navigation etc).
As above I would highly recommend taking a pillow!
Chris Stott said:
A few laughs at some of the comments in the above posts - 6 cups of tea come out of the hatch, all the same
My 1st experience of sailing was Cowes week on a Contessa 32 (very small down below) 20 years ago. 6 of us lived on board for a week... it wasn't exactly comfortable, but a lot of booze before bed drowns out the snoring. Did that for 6 years, before the skipper upgraded to a 34ft Dufour, which was positively palatial below compared to the Contessa.
We mostly do off shore now on a Beneteau 45. Usually 6 up, and up to 5 nights on board. We run 4 hrs on, 4 hrs off watch rotas, and it's plenty comfortable off watch. Even when we're ashore, there's plenty of space for everyone to get a good nights sleep. I've not had a problem sleeping whilst racing off watch... once your horizontal you don't feel the boat movement anywhere near as much (unless the on-watch decide they need to put a few quick tacks in)
Get yourself a good sleeping bag and a inflatable pillow. Take lots of layers - it's cold on deck at night even in the summer (I wear proper thermals at night most of the year). Be prepared not to wash/shower for a couple of days. I like to change my underwear daily, but some of our crew don't get out of their base layers for the duration of the race. The hot shower when you get back on land is lovely... remember to take a towel as most marinas don't provide them
I’m not sure if I could race offshore anymore!! When I was younger, I was fortunate enough to be the mainsheet trimmer and watch helm in a very successful crew where we won two Fastnets, four RORC series’, two JOG series’ and a Commodores Cup on various boats. My 1st experience of sailing was Cowes week on a Contessa 32 (very small down below) 20 years ago. 6 of us lived on board for a week... it wasn't exactly comfortable, but a lot of booze before bed drowns out the snoring. Did that for 6 years, before the skipper upgraded to a 34ft Dufour, which was positively palatial below compared to the Contessa.
We mostly do off shore now on a Beneteau 45. Usually 6 up, and up to 5 nights on board. We run 4 hrs on, 4 hrs off watch rotas, and it's plenty comfortable off watch. Even when we're ashore, there's plenty of space for everyone to get a good nights sleep. I've not had a problem sleeping whilst racing off watch... once your horizontal you don't feel the boat movement anywhere near as much (unless the on-watch decide they need to put a few quick tacks in
)Get yourself a good sleeping bag and a inflatable pillow. Take lots of layers - it's cold on deck at night even in the summer (I wear proper thermals at night most of the year). Be prepared not to wash/shower for a couple of days. I like to change my underwear daily, but some of our crew don't get out of their base layers for the duration of the race. The hot shower when you get back on land is lovely... remember to take a towel as most marinas don't provide them
We put up with a huge amount of discomfort to go fast and we were bloody good at it!!!
The thought of doing it all over again brings me out in shivers - I’ll stick to round the cans stuff now I’m in my 40’s!
I keep thinking about taking a place on something sporty for a Cervantes or Myth of Malham or equivalent, but I quickly wake up, smell the coffee and realise I’m too damned soft for it now!!!!!
Edited by schmalex on Tuesday 13th March 19:42
schmalex said:
I’m not sure if I could race offshore anymore!! When I was younger, I was fortunate enough to be the mainsheet trimmer and watch helm in a very successful crew where we won two Fastnets, four RORC series’, two JOG series’ and a Commodores Cup on various boats.
We put up with a huge amount of discomfort to go fast and we were bloody good at it!!!
The thought of doing it all over again brings me out in shivers - I’ll stick to round the cans stuff now I’m in my 40’s!
We put up with a huge amount of discomfort to go fast and we were bloody good at it!!!
The thought of doing it all over again brings me out in shivers - I’ll stick to round the cans stuff now I’m in my 40’s!
We’re the other way around! I’m the youngest at 50. Our skipper is 60 this year, and as well as the Fastnet (plus all the qualifying races), he’s also done the Middle Sea race (in horrendous conditions) and he’s just back from the Caribbean 600, where they won IRC2, CSA2 and came 11th overall in IRC.
We find offshore much less physical than round the cans - Cowes in 2016 nearly killed us, but we were racing a 45fter 5 up.
3 of us are taking the boat to Beyonia in Northern Spain in June so the skipper can do the RORC Portugal Rally, then we’ll bring it back in July to start the 2019 Fastnet qualifying races.
Then we’ll take the boat to Malta summer 2020, to do the middle sea race, before doing the ARC later that year. Boat will then stay in the Caribbean for a year so we can do the 600 and the Rolex series out there.
We’re not going to win much, but we’ve been sailing together for 20 years and all get on really well. We don’t ‘slum it’ on board - good food, glass to f vino with dinner etc. Gentlemen’s sailing!
Edited by Chris Stott on Tuesday 13th March 19:53
Chris Stott said:
schmalex said:
I’m not sure if I could race offshore anymore!! When I was younger, I was fortunate enough to be the mainsheet trimmer and watch helm in a very successful crew where we won two Fastnets, four RORC series’, two JOG series’ and a Commodores Cup on various boats.
We put up with a huge amount of discomfort to go fast and we were bloody good at it!!!
The thought of doing it all over again brings me out in shivers - I’ll stick to round the cans stuff now I’m in my 40’s!
We put up with a huge amount of discomfort to go fast and we were bloody good at it!!!
The thought of doing it all over again brings me out in shivers - I’ll stick to round the cans stuff now I’m in my 40’s!
We’re the other way around! I’m the youngest at 50. Our skipper is 60 this year, and as well as the Fastnet (plus all the qualifying races), he’s also done the Middle Sea race (in horrendous conditions) and he’s just back from the Caribbean 600, where they won IRC2, CSA2 and came 11th overall in IRC.
We find offshore much less physical than round the cans - Cowes in 2016 nearly killed us, but we were racing a 45fter 5 up.
3 of us are taking the boat to Beyonia in Northern Spain in June so the skipper can do the RORC Portugal Rally, then we’ll bring it back in July to start the 2019 Fastnet qualifying races.
Then we’ll take the boat to Malta summer 2020, to do the middle sea race, before doing the ARC later that year. Boat will then stay in the Caribbean for a year so we can do the 600 and the Rolex series out there.
We’re not going to win much, but we’ve been sailing together for 20 years and all get on really well. We don’t ‘slum it’ on board - good food, glass to f vino with dinner etc. Gentlemen’s sailing!
Edited by Chris Stott on Tuesday 13th March 19:53
But it should be more competitive around the cans we have the IRC European championship coming up so will be good to be on a competitive boat for IRC One. Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff