Peugeot 309 GTI 5 door - build project
Discussion
All,
Took delivery of a 309 GTI shell last night - I'm a sucker for 205s and wanted the bigger cousin.
Background: car was a road rally car in Wales for many years. I bought it unseen as a shell with no engine or suspension.
It's inevitably worse than I was told, but probably more solid rust wise than I expected, so overall a win.
Problem I have now is I have no idea what direction to go with it - either going to be a battle scarred daily if I throw an original 1.9 lump in it, or build it up as a mi16 track toy / weekend car (but I already have a mi16 205 gti for this).
Being ex road rally, there's not a panel on it without a dent, scratch, scuff or damage.
Pics of the mess sat on the driveway currently:
Picture of the same car from a rally event around 2012:
And finally, what I'm sort of picturing as the end result (but with much worse paint!)
I'm a sucker for old Peugeots, and this is accompanying a phase 1 '87 1.6 205 gti and a '90 phase 2 mi16 powered 205 gti. Neither car has a thread on here yet as I'm new to posting (but long time lurker).
BTW, her name is Gretchen, and I have no idea what to do with her
Updates will come and as when ..
Took delivery of a 309 GTI shell last night - I'm a sucker for 205s and wanted the bigger cousin.
Background: car was a road rally car in Wales for many years. I bought it unseen as a shell with no engine or suspension.
It's inevitably worse than I was told, but probably more solid rust wise than I expected, so overall a win.
Problem I have now is I have no idea what direction to go with it - either going to be a battle scarred daily if I throw an original 1.9 lump in it, or build it up as a mi16 track toy / weekend car (but I already have a mi16 205 gti for this).
Being ex road rally, there's not a panel on it without a dent, scratch, scuff or damage.
Pics of the mess sat on the driveway currently:
Picture of the same car from a rally event around 2012:
And finally, what I'm sort of picturing as the end result (but with much worse paint!)
I'm a sucker for old Peugeots, and this is accompanying a phase 1 '87 1.6 205 gti and a '90 phase 2 mi16 powered 205 gti. Neither car has a thread on here yet as I'm new to posting (but long time lurker).
BTW, her name is Gretchen, and I have no idea what to do with her
Updates will come and as when ..
Thanks for the positive responses - this is a bit marmite; people either do not get it at all or totally understand it.
Unfortunately (fortunately?) the car has really got under my skin over the last 48 hours. I've not had the time to even look at it but walking past it on the driveway is making me fall in love with it!!
Will be a few weeks before I share an update. In the mean time, the Pug lovers can enjoy the rest of the garage:
This is my '87 phase 1 1.6 gti. I bought it in 2014 and used it as a daily driver for a year, until one day the clutch cable snapped (outside my house!) and I then took it off the road, took it all apart to view rust, and haven't got round to putting it back together again yet:
And here is the "weekend/track toy" - mi16 powered phase 2 1.9 gti. Bought cheap as a rusty MOT failure expecting to use the mi16 engine in the phase 1, ended up sorting the rust and using it! Currently undergoing a headgasket replacement:
Currently considering breaking the mi16 to put the 309 on the road. If I can a) find the parts cheap enough b) justify to the missus keeping three Peugeots, then I definitely will not do that
Unfortunately (fortunately?) the car has really got under my skin over the last 48 hours. I've not had the time to even look at it but walking past it on the driveway is making me fall in love with it!!
Will be a few weeks before I share an update. In the mean time, the Pug lovers can enjoy the rest of the garage:
This is my '87 phase 1 1.6 gti. I bought it in 2014 and used it as a daily driver for a year, until one day the clutch cable snapped (outside my house!) and I then took it off the road, took it all apart to view rust, and haven't got round to putting it back together again yet:
And here is the "weekend/track toy" - mi16 powered phase 2 1.9 gti. Bought cheap as a rusty MOT failure expecting to use the mi16 engine in the phase 1, ended up sorting the rust and using it! Currently undergoing a headgasket replacement:
Currently considering breaking the mi16 to put the 309 on the road. If I can a) find the parts cheap enough b) justify to the missus keeping three Peugeots, then I definitely will not do that
205pat said:
Great collection, I miss my GTi6 powered 205 a lot! In my opinion any 205 that’s survived this long doesn’t deserve to be broken - I’m sure the missus will understand!
She might. Problem is the 1.6 is sat in bits in her mum's garage and she wants it gone, I've only got a single garage and no room for all 3 (plus my daily E46 plus the motorbike!)too many vehicles, not enough driveway
So when I said progress would be slow - I meant it.
The first half of this year was consumed by a bathroom renovation, and then doing a headgasket and top end rebuild on my mi16 205, with a few track days in between. As a result, the 309 has been sat under a cover on axle stands, and not as much as even looked at until just now.
Before getting into the car, have some gratuitous photos of the mi16 205 on her travels this year following the head rebuild:
Rally in the Valley, Aberstywyth. An immensely tight, technical track in a private stretch of land in Wales. Absolutely incredible day out and I would highly recommend this to anyone.
On the drive up:
Some around the track:
Heading up to this event was a 4:30am start. I only did the test drive at 8PM the night before after buttoning it up from the HG rebuild, all seemed OK on a 30 mile round trip so I did the 150 miles up there in the morning. All went well until one of the lifters stuck open mid afternoon and I sulked the 150 miles home very carefully.
Belt and cams came back off, reset all lifters (I knew there was 1 that I had trouble with previously as I couldn't reset it easily during the first rebuild), rebuilt it all, still tapping away. Starting to dread a slightly bent valve; I decided to swap out the 5w40 oil for some 10w40 as that's the only other thing I'd changed, and the noise went away immediately and hasn't returned. Sigh. Live and learn!
Quick pic at Peugeot Festival this year, on a run up Prescott Hill:
So now we're up to date and the mi16 is more or less working (few oil leaks to sort but nothing major. In for an MOT next week. May go up for sale at some point soon if I can't figure out the parking situation with the various Pugs)..
Which brings me round to the 309. I got the cover off of it tonight and had a decent look around for the first time since its arrival in February.
What I had staring back to me when I took the cover off.
More to come in the next post...
The first half of this year was consumed by a bathroom renovation, and then doing a headgasket and top end rebuild on my mi16 205, with a few track days in between. As a result, the 309 has been sat under a cover on axle stands, and not as much as even looked at until just now.
Before getting into the car, have some gratuitous photos of the mi16 205 on her travels this year following the head rebuild:
Rally in the Valley, Aberstywyth. An immensely tight, technical track in a private stretch of land in Wales. Absolutely incredible day out and I would highly recommend this to anyone.
On the drive up:
Some around the track:
Heading up to this event was a 4:30am start. I only did the test drive at 8PM the night before after buttoning it up from the HG rebuild, all seemed OK on a 30 mile round trip so I did the 150 miles up there in the morning. All went well until one of the lifters stuck open mid afternoon and I sulked the 150 miles home very carefully.
Belt and cams came back off, reset all lifters (I knew there was 1 that I had trouble with previously as I couldn't reset it easily during the first rebuild), rebuilt it all, still tapping away. Starting to dread a slightly bent valve; I decided to swap out the 5w40 oil for some 10w40 as that's the only other thing I'd changed, and the noise went away immediately and hasn't returned. Sigh. Live and learn!
Quick pic at Peugeot Festival this year, on a run up Prescott Hill:
So now we're up to date and the mi16 is more or less working (few oil leaks to sort but nothing major. In for an MOT next week. May go up for sale at some point soon if I can't figure out the parking situation with the various Pugs)..
Which brings me round to the 309. I got the cover off of it tonight and had a decent look around for the first time since its arrival in February.
What I had staring back to me when I took the cover off.
More to come in the next post...
So, the first thing I will say is I had no idea how difficult it would be finding 309 parts. For the most part, they're just not out there, and the ones that are, people either don't want to sell or want extortionate money for.
Secondly, I didn't know it didn't have a GTI front bumper until it got here, nor did I realise that GTI front bumpers don't come up for sale, and the ones I have seen have all been damaged and still advertised at £200+.
Starting with the exterior bodywork:
Nice little dent in the NS rear quarter I wasn't told about..
So body work wise, it's as expected. All panels are scratched / dented / dinged etc. Whatever. This isn't going to be a resto, just trying to save it from the scrap yard.
What came with the car, I hear you ask? Fantastic question. More in the next post...
Secondly, I didn't know it didn't have a GTI front bumper until it got here, nor did I realise that GTI front bumpers don't come up for sale, and the ones I have seen have all been damaged and still advertised at £200+.
Starting with the exterior bodywork:
Nice little dent in the NS rear quarter I wasn't told about..
So body work wise, it's as expected. All panels are scratched / dented / dinged etc. Whatever. This isn't going to be a resto, just trying to save it from the scrap yard.
What came with the car, I hear you ask? Fantastic question. More in the next post...
So, what came with the car?
Firstly, a driver's door lock that doesn't have a key, rear doors that are a struggle to open (and then struggle to close), mismatched door / ignition / boot locks, etc etc etc. Whatever.
Interior shots:
We have some seats. The driver's seat doesn't have a runner. The rest are "OK" in terms of foam / bolsters but are filthy. A wet vac should see these serviceable.
The car has had a hydraulic handbrake fitted, the cables are in place but not attached at either end, so this must have just been here for show at MOT time. A brake bias valve is fitted too:
Understandable mods given it was a road rally car.
The passenger footwell has a foot rest, again, rally car mod. This will come out if it's not done too much damage to the floor pan:
That one leads us nicely into the copious amounts of dodgy wiring and missing panels in the interior:
Carpet is in OK condition, and the trim should be fairly obtainable. The A pillar trim will probably prove quite difficult, and the dash is quite mangled with dodgy screws, but overall, it's fine.
It's done 123k ish miles (if these are the original clocks. MOT history checks out):
Happy with the interior condition then. Better than expected and all manageable. Inside the car, it also came with a strut brace that is in need of paint, and calipers / discs from a 406 (I think) which are an upgrade over standard. The discs look OK so the calipers will be rebuilt and used:
That's the extent of the goodies in the interior, until I remove the carpet and see the floor pan condition. That's one for another day.
What's in the boot? Next post...
Firstly, a driver's door lock that doesn't have a key, rear doors that are a struggle to open (and then struggle to close), mismatched door / ignition / boot locks, etc etc etc. Whatever.
Interior shots:
We have some seats. The driver's seat doesn't have a runner. The rest are "OK" in terms of foam / bolsters but are filthy. A wet vac should see these serviceable.
The car has had a hydraulic handbrake fitted, the cables are in place but not attached at either end, so this must have just been here for show at MOT time. A brake bias valve is fitted too:
Understandable mods given it was a road rally car.
The passenger footwell has a foot rest, again, rally car mod. This will come out if it's not done too much damage to the floor pan:
That one leads us nicely into the copious amounts of dodgy wiring and missing panels in the interior:
Carpet is in OK condition, and the trim should be fairly obtainable. The A pillar trim will probably prove quite difficult, and the dash is quite mangled with dodgy screws, but overall, it's fine.
It's done 123k ish miles (if these are the original clocks. MOT history checks out):
Happy with the interior condition then. Better than expected and all manageable. Inside the car, it also came with a strut brace that is in need of paint, and calipers / discs from a 406 (I think) which are an upgrade over standard. The discs look OK so the calipers will be rebuilt and used:
That's the extent of the goodies in the interior, until I remove the carpet and see the floor pan condition. That's one for another day.
What's in the boot? Next post...
I was under the impression the boot was empty, so to see anything was a pleasant surprise. Let's get the bad out of the way - a spare wheel carrier. Again, road rally car, not surprised, but it's not for me.
Pleasantly surprised to see a grill with the mounts intact. I also have a radiator, a twin fan set up, the battery tray, some random wiring and a broken exhaust heat shield:
Boot carpet is salvageable and it's nice to see an intact parcel shelf. Under the carpet:
At first impression, it looks clean, but there is a distinct amount of movement in the boot floor, so I suspect the sound deadening might be hiding something. Can't see anything nasty from underneath either though so if something is amiss, I can't quite see it from an initial prod.
Did find some rust in the boot - will get to that in the post after next.
Next post: engine bay!
Pleasantly surprised to see a grill with the mounts intact. I also have a radiator, a twin fan set up, the battery tray, some random wiring and a broken exhaust heat shield:
Boot carpet is salvageable and it's nice to see an intact parcel shelf. Under the carpet:
At first impression, it looks clean, but there is a distinct amount of movement in the boot floor, so I suspect the sound deadening might be hiding something. Can't see anything nasty from underneath either though so if something is amiss, I can't quite see it from an initial prod.
Did find some rust in the boot - will get to that in the post after next.
Next post: engine bay!
So, not a fan of the rusty bonnet pins. Fortunately for me, the bonnet is rusty, so this will be being replaced at some point. Not a big deal for now so we swiftly move on.
The guy said he had lifted the 1.9 engine and not bothered doing much else. We still have a subframe with lower arms and a steering rack so his theory was plausible...
Yep, lots of "stuff". Filthy, oily, leaking all over the driveway "stuff".
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/muxZvxmQ[/url
So we have a few more bits than I expected here - power steering pump, master cylinder / servo, an assortment of pipes etc etc.
The engine bay will be getting fully stripped out and repainting before I decide what to do with it.
The good news here is that, from what I can tell, the inner arches are solid, which are a common failure point on 205s.
The less good news, which follows into the final post for now: other rust!
The guy said he had lifted the 1.9 engine and not bothered doing much else. We still have a subframe with lower arms and a steering rack so his theory was plausible...
Yep, lots of "stuff". Filthy, oily, leaking all over the driveway "stuff".
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/muxZvxmQ[/urlSo we have a few more bits than I expected here - power steering pump, master cylinder / servo, an assortment of pipes etc etc.
The engine bay will be getting fully stripped out and repainting before I decide what to do with it.
The good news here is that, from what I can tell, the inner arches are solid, which are a common failure point on 205s.
The less good news, which follows into the final post for now: other rust!
As mentioned, the inner arches appear to be solid, which is great.
The first bit of rust found is the front impact bar:
The extent of this will be more obvious once I've removed the front bumper and stripped down the front end.
Found what I suspect will turn into a rust repair in one of the seams in the engine bay - a quick poke revealed a bit of a crunch. Will go after this one after the engine bay is stripped:
Arguably the worst section of the car now; the windscreen. A proper repair will be quite involved here, but a "that'll do" lick of paint will be OK if I end up just tracking it:
I think the proper repair for that would involve removing the windscreen, which unless I decided to pursue a full respray, isn't worth it IMO. This is a problem for later.
Next up, There is some rust in both front arches. 99% of the arch on both sides is decent, but all bumper mounts (front and back!) have gone, and there is rust on both sides on an interior panel (not sure of the name yet):
Bumper mounts are common on 205s as well so this isn't a surprise.
The floor pan is decent from having my head underneath. Will know more when I strip the interior out. Rear arches are the same story with the bumper mounts gone. The last bit of actual rust is inside the boot, where the floor meets the edges:
It's gone on both sides, I haven't prodded it yet, this is pretty much how I found it. I don't think this will be an MOT problem so I'm not sure the extent this will be repaired. I think this will be quite involved for an actual repair, too.
Now, I should caveat that I've never touched a welder. I've wanted to learn for a while, and this will be the project I'll learn with.
That'll be the end of the updates for today - I've spent a few months looking for a set of 1.9 hubs and purchased some recently, but the wheel bearings are knackered so these will be getting stripped down, rebuilt and repainted. I also purchased some pretty awful gold/bronze 1.9 speedlines when I thought I would find it easier to find suspension to make it a rolling shell.
I'm still unsure what direction the car will be going in. I think the most likely direction will be a GTI6 engine dropping in, the MOT failure rust sorting, get it MOT'd and decide what to do with it. Not sure if it will be the new daily or the new track toy.
The first job is going to be stripped the front end down, i.e. bumper off and engine bay stripped down. Starting soon, updates in the next week I hope. Thanks for reading if you got this far!
The first bit of rust found is the front impact bar:
The extent of this will be more obvious once I've removed the front bumper and stripped down the front end.
Found what I suspect will turn into a rust repair in one of the seams in the engine bay - a quick poke revealed a bit of a crunch. Will go after this one after the engine bay is stripped:
Arguably the worst section of the car now; the windscreen. A proper repair will be quite involved here, but a "that'll do" lick of paint will be OK if I end up just tracking it:
I think the proper repair for that would involve removing the windscreen, which unless I decided to pursue a full respray, isn't worth it IMO. This is a problem for later.
Next up, There is some rust in both front arches. 99% of the arch on both sides is decent, but all bumper mounts (front and back!) have gone, and there is rust on both sides on an interior panel (not sure of the name yet):
Bumper mounts are common on 205s as well so this isn't a surprise.
The floor pan is decent from having my head underneath. Will know more when I strip the interior out. Rear arches are the same story with the bumper mounts gone. The last bit of actual rust is inside the boot, where the floor meets the edges:
It's gone on both sides, I haven't prodded it yet, this is pretty much how I found it. I don't think this will be an MOT problem so I'm not sure the extent this will be repaired. I think this will be quite involved for an actual repair, too.
Now, I should caveat that I've never touched a welder. I've wanted to learn for a while, and this will be the project I'll learn with.
That'll be the end of the updates for today - I've spent a few months looking for a set of 1.9 hubs and purchased some recently, but the wheel bearings are knackered so these will be getting stripped down, rebuilt and repainted. I also purchased some pretty awful gold/bronze 1.9 speedlines when I thought I would find it easier to find suspension to make it a rolling shell.
I'm still unsure what direction the car will be going in. I think the most likely direction will be a GTI6 engine dropping in, the MOT failure rust sorting, get it MOT'd and decide what to do with it. Not sure if it will be the new daily or the new track toy.
The first job is going to be stripped the front end down, i.e. bumper off and engine bay stripped down. Starting soon, updates in the next week I hope. Thanks for reading if you got this far!
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