insurance for modified cars
Discussion
I'm struggling to even get a quote for a 993 carrera with an uprated engine chip. This seems odd as I got an entirely reasonable quote for the car without the chip, and its only about 10% or so more power !
Anyone know what's going on ? Anyone else got insurance for a car with a chipped engine ?
Cheers
911newbie
Anyone know what's going on ? Anyone else got insurance for a car with a chipped engine ?
Cheers
911newbie
I'm insured through a broker called Performance Marques via their PCGB members scheme.
My car has a factory power upgrade from 420 to 450 bhp. The increase in premium from the standard vehicle was about 10%.
DAZ
Chris - you didn't used to run a burgundy VR6 golf did you?
>> Edited by Dazren on Thursday 12th September 10:46
My car has a factory power upgrade from 420 to 450 bhp. The increase in premium from the standard vehicle was about 10%.
DAZ
Chris - you didn't used to run a burgundy VR6 golf did you?
>> Edited by Dazren on Thursday 12th September 10:46
quote:
Dazren,
No didn't own a VR6, had an old GTi a while back now (it was a nice car in fact and went well, probably cos it was 8 valve so had more grunt at pottering-about revs).
Thanks for the tel no.
Yours a turbo ?
With your profile/name I thought you may be a VR6 driving dentist I know
No problem.
YEP.
DAZ
Chris,
Seriously mate, don't say a bloody word, there's no way they'd ever know as long as you don't tell 'em. When (unless in very very extreme circumstances) has anyone known an insurance company to check. And let's face it, if they did you just say that's how it was when you bought it. In a court of law that would stand up as reasonable as how were you to know??
Secondly, and I don't want to upset you too much, but without many other mods there's no way (regardless of what the buggers are telling you) that a chip alone will add 10% to your 993 anyway. Mine's had the chip, exhaust, K&N, sports airbox etc etc and still only running an extra 13hp on the standard 272.
Dave
Seriously mate, don't say a bloody word, there's no way they'd ever know as long as you don't tell 'em. When (unless in very very extreme circumstances) has anyone known an insurance company to check. And let's face it, if they did you just say that's how it was when you bought it. In a court of law that would stand up as reasonable as how were you to know??
Secondly, and I don't want to upset you too much, but without many other mods there's no way (regardless of what the buggers are telling you) that a chip alone will add 10% to your 993 anyway. Mine's had the chip, exhaust, K&N, sports airbox etc etc and still only running an extra 13hp on the standard 272.
Dave
It seems that many places selling these chips claim similar increases in power output (but they would, wouldn't they ?) but many PHers say its not quite the case....
I've a mate who has worked as a mechanic for F1 bike teams and currently a Truck racing team, what he thinks - should get definitive answer.
I'll pass on what he says.
911newbie
I've a mate who has worked as a mechanic for F1 bike teams and currently a Truck racing team, what he thinks - should get definitive answer.
I'll pass on what he says.
911newbie
Re Chip ugrades: the one factor with all increase in power claims is, how the *ell can you tell if your car has ANY increase in power without a before and after rolling road/dyno graph.
Insurance: many companies now have a set scale for modified cars. This covers both cosmetic and performance modifications. For power upgrades, generally, ins companies have set limits, e.g. has the engine got increase of 5 to 10%, 11 to 20%, 21 to 30% etc. They then load up the premium depending on what you have answered.
Personally, I tell my ins company of absolutley every modification, even down to new locking wheel nuts. This is because I have been present when a loss adjuster comes looking at a damaged car (cost of repairs being claimed from ins company). He questions everything, i.e. that bit isn't standard, this includes engine management chips.
I don't blame anyone for trying to get away without telling their ins company about upgrades, just be aware that at claim time, you may regret it.
Incidently, before this years renewal, I haven't had any loading for 13% increase in power (rolling road/dyno graph proved). This year the ins company loaded up my premium. Replacement wheels, inc another set for trackdays = no increase in premium. No increase for stiffer anti roll bars, sport steering wheel, forced air brake ducts, non standard Porsche brake pads, use of SRF fluid, etc etc. Tell 'em everthing, bog them down with paperwork/modifcation list.
My car goes back onto the rolling road/dyno next week, trying to prove that the increase is below 11%.
Insurance: many companies now have a set scale for modified cars. This covers both cosmetic and performance modifications. For power upgrades, generally, ins companies have set limits, e.g. has the engine got increase of 5 to 10%, 11 to 20%, 21 to 30% etc. They then load up the premium depending on what you have answered.
Personally, I tell my ins company of absolutley every modification, even down to new locking wheel nuts. This is because I have been present when a loss adjuster comes looking at a damaged car (cost of repairs being claimed from ins company). He questions everything, i.e. that bit isn't standard, this includes engine management chips.
I don't blame anyone for trying to get away without telling their ins company about upgrades, just be aware that at claim time, you may regret it.
Incidently, before this years renewal, I haven't had any loading for 13% increase in power (rolling road/dyno graph proved). This year the ins company loaded up my premium. Replacement wheels, inc another set for trackdays = no increase in premium. No increase for stiffer anti roll bars, sport steering wheel, forced air brake ducts, non standard Porsche brake pads, use of SRF fluid, etc etc. Tell 'em everthing, bog them down with paperwork/modifcation list.
My car goes back onto the rolling road/dyno next week, trying to prove that the increase is below 11%.
I am still mulling over various options for louder exhausts for my 993, all of which (except one) claim a power increase. My current thinking is that no matter who makes the exhaust system that I decide on, I will most likely get them fitted by Automotive Developments, in conjunction with a different airbox and a rechip/tune/rolling road session. This will include before and after dyno plots, which should eliminate all ambiguity about power increases, and give me something concrete to show the insurance company.
AMD supply their own exhaust systems too:
www.auto-amd.com/99336.asp
If I go down this route, then a bit more saving up needs to be done first though
AMD supply their own exhaust systems too:
www.auto-amd.com/99336.asp
If I go down this route, then a bit more saving up needs to be done first though
For modified cars, Greenlight are fairly good. They ask you to fill in a fairly comprehensive questionnaire on what is modified (down to steering wheel and locking wheel nuts!) and they insure the mods on an agreed value, so if you have a total loss you get the market value of the unmodified car plus the value of the mods.
Click here for more details
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 12th September 14:51
Click here for more details
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 12th September 14:51
Yup, they're in Biscester now (not far away) and I was impressed with the service (although disappointed with not being able to see any work being done, you have to sit in the waiting room for three bloody hours till you're sick of the sight of 911 and PW mags)
Don't get too excited about power increases tho, as you see from my for sale advert, I have all those bits and he still only managed another 13hp. That said, it was running about 4hp down on standard to begin with.
The exhaust, K&N and air box added NOTHING - all gains were due to tuning them all together with the chip. Geoff said this is very usually the case. All gains are theoretical maximums assuming everything's running perfectly. (Which it ain't going to be doing on a 9 year old car)
Don't get too excited about power increases tho, as you see from my for sale advert, I have all those bits and he still only managed another 13hp. That said, it was running about 4hp down on standard to begin with.
The exhaust, K&N and air box added NOTHING - all gains were due to tuning them all together with the chip. Geoff said this is very usually the case. All gains are theoretical maximums assuming everything's running perfectly. (Which it ain't going to be doing on a 9 year old car)
quote:
Yup, they're in Biscester now (not far away) and I was impressed with the service (although disappointed with not being able to see any work being done, you have to sit in the waiting room for three bloody hours till you're sick of the sight of 911 and PW mags)
That's changed then, because I was there the whole time. The only alarming thing was on one of the max power runs when the exhaust pressure caused the collector on the back of one of the pipes to come off, and the whole workshop filled with fumes and a hell of a lot of noise in a very short time!
That's what I was hoping for (as DOmster had done the same as you), part of the fun was watching them do all the work, was a bit miffed when I had wait and read till it was done.
By the time they'd finished I was buzzing like I'd popped some pills due to caffine and didn't even want to see the bloody car cos I was sick of them after reading 911&PW for three hours!!
By the time they'd finished I was buzzing like I'd popped some pills due to caffine and didn't even want to see the bloody car cos I was sick of them after reading 911&PW for three hours!!
Not everyone holds AmD in high regard, BTW, just in case people want an alternate view.
Geoff can be a miserable git (as Scottster found out!) and some other - arguably more respected Porsche tuners - view him with a certain amount of suspicion.
However, he sorted out my Dad's Audi when in Oddington, and Dad likes him. Just not all I've heard has been so complimentary. Then again, which suppliers are whiter than white these days???
Geoff can be a miserable git (as Scottster found out!) and some other - arguably more respected Porsche tuners - view him with a certain amount of suspicion.
However, he sorted out my Dad's Audi when in Oddington, and Dad likes him. Just not all I've heard has been so complimentary. Then again, which suppliers are whiter than white these days???
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