Anyone fancy a 4% income tax rate?
Discussion
An article in a much lambasted daily rag* featured an article discussing the pros and cons of Victorian Britain.
Amongst the commentator's list were observations relating to trains that ran efficiently and of particular interest to me, a late 19th century tax regime that relieved you of just 4 pence in the pound.
Apparently, some within the political establishment actually thought this was a little harsh to the industrialists of the day and (I think it was Gladstone who was cited) were all for it's reduction, if not outright abolition.
I think our venerable sage, Gnomesmith, commented within these hallowed e-pages, that income tax was initially a mere expedient for the Napoleonic wars.
Forgetting the immense complexities of the full taxation system if one can (but including the N.I. charges), it's likely that many people on this website kiss goodbye to about half of their earnings.
What doest reckon, fellow PHers? Time for a slight reassessment of where our hard earned goes and how accountable should be those who allocate and benefit therefrom?
{* The rag concerned was primarily being nosed through by yours truly because a colleague had informed me of it's 'first to press' piccies of the latest snaps of my favoured beastie stupidissimo, the water kelpoid of Nessian predeliction. I was not insubstantially vexed by the highly unconvincing spectacle of some circular plastic tubing being thrust forth from the choppy surface of the loch, for which even mugs such as I were expected to be convinced of Plesiosauric longevity. Now if some of my taxable income were spent pursuing such worthwhile ventures properly, then I could perhaps be persauded to stomach 3p in the pound...
}
Amongst the commentator's list were observations relating to trains that ran efficiently and of particular interest to me, a late 19th century tax regime that relieved you of just 4 pence in the pound.
Apparently, some within the political establishment actually thought this was a little harsh to the industrialists of the day and (I think it was Gladstone who was cited) were all for it's reduction, if not outright abolition.
I think our venerable sage, Gnomesmith, commented within these hallowed e-pages, that income tax was initially a mere expedient for the Napoleonic wars.
Forgetting the immense complexities of the full taxation system if one can (but including the N.I. charges), it's likely that many people on this website kiss goodbye to about half of their earnings.
What doest reckon, fellow PHers? Time for a slight reassessment of where our hard earned goes and how accountable should be those who allocate and benefit therefrom?
{* The rag concerned was primarily being nosed through by yours truly because a colleague had informed me of it's 'first to press' piccies of the latest snaps of my favoured beastie stupidissimo, the water kelpoid of Nessian predeliction. I was not insubstantially vexed by the highly unconvincing spectacle of some circular plastic tubing being thrust forth from the choppy surface of the loch, for which even mugs such as I were expected to be convinced of Plesiosauric longevity. Now if some of my taxable income were spent pursuing such worthwhile ventures properly, then I could perhaps be persauded to stomach 3p in the pound...
}I really do think that we should adopt the American model. No benefits for those who havent completed high school, place the onus of health care provision on the employer and ditch NI contributions.
Upshot, layabouts actually get jobs on the basis that if they have an accident they will be left to die without healthcare provision and scrotes are going to be more willing to work at school if they arent guaranteed their 72.80 or whatever a fortnight.
Current system of taxation follows the Robin Hood/Dick Turpin model and that is quite frankly unjust.
Matt.
Upshot, layabouts actually get jobs on the basis that if they have an accident they will be left to die without healthcare provision and scrotes are going to be more willing to work at school if they arent guaranteed their 72.80 or whatever a fortnight.
Current system of taxation follows the Robin Hood/Dick Turpin model and that is quite frankly unjust.
Matt.
There was some other interesting stuff in the article about how towns were "looked after" by the local businessmen: they built the parks, the museums, the libraries and so on. Great acts of altruism and largess.
However, it forget to mention the grinding poverty that a lot of the population suffered as a result of the low wages paid by said businessmen, who were more than happy to put profit before personnel. Now I'm all for the guy who has the idea and starts the business with his own cash, takes all the risks and therefore is deserving of all the profit, but the people that do the work also deserve a slice of the pie....
But, getting back to topic.... gimme a slice of that 4% income tax - and I'll still spend me money, but in the way that I want to. We can/should be able to fund a sensible level of infrastructure, without the social blanket that some think is necessary for the scrotes and basically lazy f**wits that take the pi$$ out of us and take our money whilst contributing nothing in return. More power to our wallets say I.
>> Edited by mondeoman on Wednesday 11th September 14:29
However, it forget to mention the grinding poverty that a lot of the population suffered as a result of the low wages paid by said businessmen, who were more than happy to put profit before personnel. Now I'm all for the guy who has the idea and starts the business with his own cash, takes all the risks and therefore is deserving of all the profit, but the people that do the work also deserve a slice of the pie....
But, getting back to topic.... gimme a slice of that 4% income tax - and I'll still spend me money, but in the way that I want to. We can/should be able to fund a sensible level of infrastructure, without the social blanket that some think is necessary for the scrotes and basically lazy f**wits that take the pi$$ out of us and take our money whilst contributing nothing in return. More power to our wallets say I.
>> Edited by mondeoman on Wednesday 11th September 14:29
If that's 4 OLD pence in the pound that's about 2.75% tax.
If you think that income tax accounts for at least 23% of what you earn, then add the 4% NI (though when you need something of any magnitude you have to go private and don't get a refund), then add 17.5% VAT on everything you buy, that's 44.5% already. Add to that the 400% tax on petrol, the VAT on that tax, at least £800 council tax (for services you don't use and 1 bin-liner a week), the extra - and equally compulsory - council tax to top up the poor government worker's pension funds at the expense of yours, £1.50 on every bottle of wine...
It's amazing we have anything left. Oh, and don't forget that not only will your pension be taxed, but the fund it (was) going to be growing in is taxed as well, to the tune of £5bn a year. And Joe Public didn't even notice.
'The price we pay for not going into politics is to be ruled by those less able than ourselves.'
If you think that income tax accounts for at least 23% of what you earn, then add the 4% NI (though when you need something of any magnitude you have to go private and don't get a refund), then add 17.5% VAT on everything you buy, that's 44.5% already. Add to that the 400% tax on petrol, the VAT on that tax, at least £800 council tax (for services you don't use and 1 bin-liner a week), the extra - and equally compulsory - council tax to top up the poor government worker's pension funds at the expense of yours, £1.50 on every bottle of wine...
It's amazing we have anything left. Oh, and don't forget that not only will your pension be taxed, but the fund it (was) going to be growing in is taxed as well, to the tune of £5bn a year. And Joe Public didn't even notice.
'The price we pay for not going into politics is to be ruled by those less able than ourselves.'
quote:
If you think that income tax accounts for at least 23% of what you earn, then add the 4% NI (though when you need something of any magnitude you have to go private and don't get a refund), then add 17.5% VAT on everything you buy, that's 44.5% already. Add to that the 400% tax on petrol, the VAT on that tax, at least £800 council tax (for services you don't use and 1 bin-liner a week), the extra - and equally compulsory - council tax to top up the poor government worker's pension funds at the expense of yours, £1.50 on every bottle of wine...
Hold on a minute. Lets start with the 12% employers NI they take before you even get to your 'headline' salary. Then there's 0/10/22/40% tax in bands, and (from April) 13/1% NI bands (its certainly not 4%). Total is somewhere about 60% (for higher earners). Then you take 17.5% of anything you sepnd the remaining 40% on, quite apart from explicit duty on various items, largely fuel, ciggies and booze. And IPT. And no tax credits on pensions. And airport tax. And no MIRAS.
Watch my lips - loads of f
ing new taxes!
Actually, gentlemen, whilst it is clear that we are being roundly frisked, what about the actual use of our money?
Can we seriously be expected to accept that ALL the income we lose is used wisely?
No taxation without representation? Nice concept 220-odd years ago but today, how much freedom should our elected representatives get with the purse strings?
Indeed, how big should the purse be?
Can we seriously be expected to accept that ALL the income we lose is used wisely?
No taxation without representation? Nice concept 220-odd years ago but today, how much freedom should our elected representatives get with the purse strings?
Indeed, how big should the purse be?
Funny that when the electoral registration thingy comes round it says 'Don't lose your right to vote'. It actually means 'Don't lose your right to pay tax'. And if you don't return it, thinking you might wish to opt out and heck, a vote's really not so important - they put you in prison.
And we still say it's a free country/democracy!!!
And we still say it's a free country/democracy!!!
Can't see the connection between registering to vote & paying tax.
In Gnomeland, were we have totally fair and unbiased government, we have long since abolished Income tax, Council tax,Gnational Insurance, TV licences, fuel duty etc.
All our taxes are based upon multiple levels of VAT, there are broad national rates that vary from 0% to 75% depending upon the type of purchase, 75% covers caravans, FCUK teeshirts and Archers' novels etc. The more essential the item the lower the tax rate, there is also a variable local % add on for services that replaces rates/council tax. The only other tax is a levy on interest paid to 'investors' to stop the economically idle from living off the rest of us who spend.
All prices are quoted including tax and service and are displayed by law at point of sale. You get your full salary each month (or week) so company accounting is greatly simplified and you know how much you will earn. Self assessment is restricted to scrotial inspection which is not totally necessary as we give the same priority to testicular cancer as the less common breast cancer.
There is total tax emeption for Chelsea Football Club, motor racing related expenditure etc and Bristol drivers have all their taxes refunded. Any Gnome with a beard older than 20 years has special concessions (not sure thats fair but I'm not complaining).
Gnomeland became a closed country today.
In Gnomeland, were we have totally fair and unbiased government, we have long since abolished Income tax, Council tax,Gnational Insurance, TV licences, fuel duty etc.
All our taxes are based upon multiple levels of VAT, there are broad national rates that vary from 0% to 75% depending upon the type of purchase, 75% covers caravans, FCUK teeshirts and Archers' novels etc. The more essential the item the lower the tax rate, there is also a variable local % add on for services that replaces rates/council tax. The only other tax is a levy on interest paid to 'investors' to stop the economically idle from living off the rest of us who spend.
All prices are quoted including tax and service and are displayed by law at point of sale. You get your full salary each month (or week) so company accounting is greatly simplified and you know how much you will earn. Self assessment is restricted to scrotial inspection which is not totally necessary as we give the same priority to testicular cancer as the less common breast cancer.
There is total tax emeption for Chelsea Football Club, motor racing related expenditure etc and Bristol drivers have all their taxes refunded. Any Gnome with a beard older than 20 years has special concessions (not sure thats fair but I'm not complaining).
Gnomeland became a closed country today.
Bear in mind that Victorian Britain had the same sort of economy that USA has now - in other words, HUGE!! Where do you think all the vast Victorian mansions, parks and castles came from? Individual people could afford to construct entire towns (e.g. Saltaire near Bradford). The country kept vast armies, navy, etc. This was a mega-wealthy country. 4% tax was the sort of money that fell out of their pockets when they went for their handkerchieves, but was massive income for the government. And let's face it, no NHS money pit, social welfare essentially run out of private purses. They were seriously rich boys.....
quote:
Bear in mind that Victorian Britain had the same sort of economy that USA has now - in other words, HUGE!! Where do you think all the vast Victorian mansions, parks and castles came from? Individual people could afford to construct entire towns (e.g. Saltaire near Bradford). The country kept vast armies, navy, etc. This was a mega-wealthy country. 4% tax was the sort of money that fell out of their pockets when they went for their handkerchieves, but was massive income for the government. And let's face it, no NHS money pit, social welfare essentially run out of private purses. They were seriously rich boys.....
Yeah but this was on the back of virtual slave labour for the poor, ie the poorest 75% or so of society. 4% was a lot in that it would buy a lot of man-hours, mainly beacuse thos ehours were piss-cheap.
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