981 GT4 vs 991.1 GT3 = which one would you buy used and why?
Discussion
This year; I’m in the market for a used 991.1 GT3 or used 981 Cayman GT4 
Some backstory;
This GT3 / GT4 will do 7.000 - 8.000 miles a year with 50% track use (8 times a year) and 50% street use. My daily car is a manual M2 and this car is staying (I love it as my daily car). I really use my M2 everyday in whatever weather possible and I also drive it on track sometimes. I have some other street and sport cars in the garage for the moment. But some cars get not a lot of usage and I’m going to sell them all to make room for something else. Instead I want a two car garage only, with two cars that get more regular use. Like I said; my M2 will stay as my daily car (no kids / no dogs
) the rest of the BMW’s are going on sale this spring….and the plan is to buy my first Porsche.
Why not order the new 991.2 GT3…? For me; it’s to expensive for a second car and you can make some nice deals in 2018 on the 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3. The budget I want to spend is the budget of a used 981 GT4 or a used 991.1 GT3…so no 991.1 GT3 RS….and I also skipped the older 997.2 GT3 3.8 from my list. So my shortlist is between the 981 GT4 or the 991.1 GT3 or if they launch a new 718 GT4 this year (but who knows this for sure?).
Yes; I know about the issue of the 3the gear with the GT4 and I know about the past troubles of the 991.1 GT3 engine (but there is the 10 year Porsche warranty now). One thing that is maybe good to know; I tend to keep my cars for a very long time and I love track driving (mostly Nurburgring). This car has to shine on track…because I also have my M2 for the street.
The GT4 engine is not that magical like the 991.1 GT3. Horsepower wise the GT4 is in the same league as my M2. Of course the GT4 has way more grip, better balance and higher track capabilities then my M2. The GT4 drives so nice with the manual gearbox. The gearing is a bit long and there is of course the 3th gear reliability issue to keep in mind. Most GT4’s and GT3’s (in Europe) are now out of warranty.
I don’t like automatic gearboxes (PDK, DCT, S-tronic, Ferrari F1, etc) in sport cars when street driving…but when going full power on a track, these gearboxes have a purpose! In this territory I have no problems with this type of dual clutch gearbox. So incomes the 991.1 GT3 with the PDK only gearbox. I have driven a 997.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3…the difference is big between both cars (I love them both). On track; I don’t really mis the manual gearbox… The engine of the 991.1 GT3 is way more magical then the 3.8 engine of the GT4. The GT3 performance and power is on another level then the GT4 and certainly then my M2. The difference between my M2 and the GT3 is bigger then between my M2 and the GT4. The 991.1 GT3 feels more like a supercar then a sports car. But that GT4 package with the manual gearbox and mid engine lay out is so very nice and so involving to drive (maybe even more so then the 991.1 GT3). In my country a used 981 GT4 is bit cheaper then a used 991.1 GT3….but the price difference between the two is not the main concern for me.
For the moment; I'm a bit stuck in choosing between the 981 GT4 vs 991.1 GT3...both have their pro's and con's...
Whatever my buying decision will be…I’m going to wait until the spring (after Geneva motorshow) when maybe the new 718 GT4 is already launched and also the 911.2 GT3 are more common by then. I'm in no hurry to buy and I believe this will result in even more price dropping for the used 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3..
So the questions;
- Which one would you choice and why (remember it’s not my daily car and I also have a manual M2)?
- In your opinion which one wil be the most fun to own over a long period of time and most fun on track?
- If I do want to sell it one day…If you have to guess; which one wil have lost the most money…? (I’m guessing 991.1 GT3)?
- You guys think there is a big difference in maintenance costs between a 981 GT4 and a 991.1 GT3? I know the older 997.2 GT3 has higher maintenance costs when tracking then the GT4...but how about the 991.1 GT3?
Thanks for the input :0
Some backstory;
This GT3 / GT4 will do 7.000 - 8.000 miles a year with 50% track use (8 times a year) and 50% street use. My daily car is a manual M2 and this car is staying (I love it as my daily car). I really use my M2 everyday in whatever weather possible and I also drive it on track sometimes. I have some other street and sport cars in the garage for the moment. But some cars get not a lot of usage and I’m going to sell them all to make room for something else. Instead I want a two car garage only, with two cars that get more regular use. Like I said; my M2 will stay as my daily car (no kids / no dogs
) the rest of the BMW’s are going on sale this spring….and the plan is to buy my first Porsche.Why not order the new 991.2 GT3…? For me; it’s to expensive for a second car and you can make some nice deals in 2018 on the 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3. The budget I want to spend is the budget of a used 981 GT4 or a used 991.1 GT3…so no 991.1 GT3 RS….and I also skipped the older 997.2 GT3 3.8 from my list. So my shortlist is between the 981 GT4 or the 991.1 GT3 or if they launch a new 718 GT4 this year (but who knows this for sure?).
Yes; I know about the issue of the 3the gear with the GT4 and I know about the past troubles of the 991.1 GT3 engine (but there is the 10 year Porsche warranty now). One thing that is maybe good to know; I tend to keep my cars for a very long time and I love track driving (mostly Nurburgring). This car has to shine on track…because I also have my M2 for the street.
The GT4 engine is not that magical like the 991.1 GT3. Horsepower wise the GT4 is in the same league as my M2. Of course the GT4 has way more grip, better balance and higher track capabilities then my M2. The GT4 drives so nice with the manual gearbox. The gearing is a bit long and there is of course the 3th gear reliability issue to keep in mind. Most GT4’s and GT3’s (in Europe) are now out of warranty.
I don’t like automatic gearboxes (PDK, DCT, S-tronic, Ferrari F1, etc) in sport cars when street driving…but when going full power on a track, these gearboxes have a purpose! In this territory I have no problems with this type of dual clutch gearbox. So incomes the 991.1 GT3 with the PDK only gearbox. I have driven a 997.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3…the difference is big between both cars (I love them both). On track; I don’t really mis the manual gearbox… The engine of the 991.1 GT3 is way more magical then the 3.8 engine of the GT4. The GT3 performance and power is on another level then the GT4 and certainly then my M2. The difference between my M2 and the GT3 is bigger then between my M2 and the GT4. The 991.1 GT3 feels more like a supercar then a sports car. But that GT4 package with the manual gearbox and mid engine lay out is so very nice and so involving to drive (maybe even more so then the 991.1 GT3). In my country a used 981 GT4 is bit cheaper then a used 991.1 GT3….but the price difference between the two is not the main concern for me.
For the moment; I'm a bit stuck in choosing between the 981 GT4 vs 991.1 GT3...both have their pro's and con's...
Whatever my buying decision will be…I’m going to wait until the spring (after Geneva motorshow) when maybe the new 718 GT4 is already launched and also the 911.2 GT3 are more common by then. I'm in no hurry to buy and I believe this will result in even more price dropping for the used 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3..
So the questions;
- Which one would you choice and why (remember it’s not my daily car and I also have a manual M2)?
- In your opinion which one wil be the most fun to own over a long period of time and most fun on track?
- If I do want to sell it one day…If you have to guess; which one wil have lost the most money…? (I’m guessing 991.1 GT3)?
- You guys think there is a big difference in maintenance costs between a 981 GT4 and a 991.1 GT3? I know the older 997.2 GT3 has higher maintenance costs when tracking then the GT4...but how about the 991.1 GT3?
Thanks for the input :0
Edited by Franzino on Monday 15th January 00:23
The answer is down to how much money you are willing to spend.
You’ve made all of the other cases and justifications/rationalisations.
I would say it would be good to have big differences between your two cars in your situation -so that points to the GT3.
Manual v PDK, big difference in power and delivery, big difference in handling characteristics.
I’d reckon you’ll end up driving the GT3 more than the M2 in the end.
You’ve made all of the other cases and justifications/rationalisations.
I would say it would be good to have big differences between your two cars in your situation -so that points to the GT3.
Manual v PDK, big difference in power and delivery, big difference in handling characteristics.
I’d reckon you’ll end up driving the GT3 more than the M2 in the end.
TDT said:
The answer is down to how much money you are willing to spend.
You’ve made all of the other cases and justifications/rationalisations.
Buying the car is one thing...maintaining is the second part. I know the maintenance costs when driving on track of a GT4 and I also know the big maintenance costs of a 997.2 GT3 RS (friends of mine have them). But I have no idea about the difference with the 991.1 GT3.You’ve made all of the other cases and justifications/rationalisations.
TDT said:
I would say it would be good to have big differences between your two cars in your situation -so that points to the GT3.
Manual v PDK, big difference in power and delivery, big difference in handling characteristics.
Indeed; I like my two cars to be different...and this is a plus for the GT3.Manual v PDK, big difference in power and delivery, big difference in handling characteristics.
TDT said:
I’d reckon you’ll end up driving the GT3 more than the M2 in the end.
I can not use the GT3/GT4 to go to work (it's out of the question) and it will only be used for fun and track...but indeed the GT3/GT4 will probably be used more on free days then my M2.woollyjoe said:
GT3 seems obvious, no?
but it's 50% more than the GT4.
Buying price difference is 30.000euro (£26.000) in my country between a good clubsport GT4 and clubsport GT3. Maintenance costs I don't know what the difference is....? Tyres, rotors, brake pads...should be the same in price I think.but it's 50% more than the GT4.
Edited by Franzino on Monday 15th January 02:21
Since you've got a manual car already, GT3.
Also, a GT3 is best enjoyed on track and personally although I am, all other things being equal, a manual man through and through, this only applies to road use where it adds a level of interest and fun to a situation where you don't often (if ever!) get to enjoy the full performance of the engine/chassis. On track where you do, having a manual box would still be better, but is much less important to the fun IMO and the GT3's engine and character compared to the GT4 would more than make up for it I reckon.
Also, a GT3 is best enjoyed on track and personally although I am, all other things being equal, a manual man through and through, this only applies to road use where it adds a level of interest and fun to a situation where you don't often (if ever!) get to enjoy the full performance of the engine/chassis. On track where you do, having a manual box would still be better, but is much less important to the fun IMO and the GT3's engine and character compared to the GT4 would more than make up for it I reckon.
GT3. The engine is very special - noise, performance, range etc. The GT4 is a very, very good car but the engine lacks charachter compared to the GT3.
Given in your market the price difference between the two is much closer than the U.K., I think it will make a better long term bet when you come to sell.
No idea on comparative running costs for track work.
Given in your market the price difference between the two is much closer than the U.K., I think it will make a better long term bet when you come to sell.
No idea on comparative running costs for track work.
Edited by blackmamba on Monday 15th January 11:09
Koln-RS said:
If regular track use was a priority, I'd go GT4, and save a lot of money.
+/- 8 trackdays a year...is that regular track use? Could be... I don't know what is the number to call it regular?Why would it safe me a lot of money? Is the GT3 that more expensive to maintain? Tyres, rotors, pads are almost the same price. GT3 & GT4 share the same brakes...so no difference there.
Maybe the GT3 needs more maintenance with the PDK gearbox and special high revving 3.8 engine?
If you do as many as 8-10 track days per year and a seasoned driver, I will say that there is a risk that you might get a little bored with the GT4. Don't get me wrong, it is one of the best cars I've ever owned, but that car gives you such confidence and is so well balanced that is "too easy to drive". I would usually set a bench lap time within 10 laps, and then I could spend 40 laps trying to find a tenth here or there, upping the risk and also being a lot tougher on the car. The rear end is so planted that it almost feel like on "rails". It could easily take another 100 bhp, and then it would be a different animal.
The GT3 is a totally different beast, and will be more of a challenge in the long run, and a lot more exciting on track than the GT4.
On the road the GT4 is near perfect, sure the gearing could be shorter, but on a desserted country road, the manual gearbox, engine and total package just comes together.
The GT3 is a totally different beast, and will be more of a challenge in the long run, and a lot more exciting on track than the GT4.
On the road the GT4 is near perfect, sure the gearing could be shorter, but on a desserted country road, the manual gearbox, engine and total package just comes together.
acey81 said:
If you do as many as 8-10 track days per year and a seasoned driver, I will say that there is a risk that you might get a little bored with the GT4. Don't get me wrong, it is one of the best cars I've ever owned, but that car gives you such confidence and is so well balanced that is "too easy to drive". I would usually set a bench lap time within 10 laps, and then I could spend 40 laps trying to find a tenth here or there, upping the risk and also being a lot tougher on the car. The rear end is so planted that it almost feel like on "rails". It could easily take another 100 bhp, and then it would be a different animal.
The GT3 is a totally different beast, and will be more of a challenge in the long run, and a lot more exciting on track than the GT4.
On the road the GT4 is near perfect, sure the gearing could be shorter, but on a desserted country road, the manual gearbox, engine and total package just comes together.
I never agree with people who say the GT4 is too easy to drive, most are just not driving it fast enough, if they say that Imo.The GT3 is a totally different beast, and will be more of a challenge in the long run, and a lot more exciting on track than the GT4.
On the road the GT4 is near perfect, sure the gearing could be shorter, but on a desserted country road, the manual gearbox, engine and total package just comes together.
I would say any PDK car is far far less of a challenge by a country mile and then some and then add even more some :-)
PDK, E-diff's, RWS, PTV all makes it very easy in fact all new cars are very easy to drive fast.
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 15th January 15:31
Franzino said:
This year; I’m in the market for a used 991.1 GT3 or used 981 Cayman GT4
Some backstory;
This GT3 / GT4 will do 7.000 - 8.000 miles a year with 50% track use (8 times a year) and 50% street use. My daily car is a manual M2 and this car is staying (I love it as my daily car). I really use my M2 everyday in whatever weather possible and I also drive it on track sometimes. I have some other street and sport cars in the garage for the moment. But some cars get not a lot of usage and I’m going to sell them all to make room for something else. Instead I want a two car garage only, with two cars that get more regular use. Like I said; my M2 will stay as my daily car (no kids / no dogs ) the rest of the BMW’s are going on sale this spring….and the plan is to buy my first Porsche.
Why not order the new 991.2 GT3…? For me; it’s to expensive for a second car and you can make some nice deals in 2018 on the 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3. The budget I want to spend is the budget of a used 981 GT4 or a used 991.1 GT3…so no 991.1 GT3 RS….and I also skipped the older 997.2 GT3 3.8 from my list. So my shortlist is between the 981 GT4 or the 991.1 GT3 or if they launch a new 718 GT4 this year (but who knows this for sure?).
Yes; I know about the issue of the 3the gear with the GT4 and I know about the past troubles of the 991.1 GT3 engine (but there is the 10 year Porsche warranty now). One thing that is maybe good to know; I tend to keep my cars for a very long time and I love track driving (mostly Nurburgring). This car has to shine on track…because I also have my M2 for the street.
The GT4 engine is not that magical like the 991.1 GT3. Horsepower wise the GT4 is in the same league as my M2. Of course the GT4 has way more grip, better balance and higher track capabilities then my M2. The GT4 drives so nice with the manual gearbox. The gearing is a bit long and there is of course the 3th gear reliability issue to keep in mind. Most GT4’s and GT3’s (in Europe) are now out of warranty.
I don’t like automatic gearboxes (PDK, DCT, S-tronic, Ferrari F1, etc) in sport cars when street driving…but when going full power on a track, these gearboxes have a purpose! In this territory I have no problems with this type of dual clutch gearbox. So incomes the 991.1 GT3 with the PDK only gearbox. I have driven a 997.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3…the difference is big between both cars (I love them both). On track; I don’t really mis the manual gearbox… The engine of the 991.1 GT3 is way more magical then the 3.8 engine of the GT4. The GT3 performance and power is on another level then the GT4 and certainly then my M2. The difference between my M2 and the GT3 is bigger then between my M2 and the GT4. The 991.1 GT3 feels more like a supercar then a sports car. But that GT4 package with the manual gearbox and mid engine lay out is so very nice and so involving to drive (maybe even more so then the 991.1 GT3). In my country a used 981 GT4 is bit cheaper then a used 991.1 GT3….but the price difference between the two is not the main concern for me.
For the moment; I'm a bit stuck in choosing between the 981 GT4 vs 991.1 GT3...both have their pro's and con's...
Whatever my buying decision will be…I’m going to wait until the spring (after Geneva motorshow) when maybe the new 718 GT4 is already launched and also the 911.2 GT3 are more common by then. I'm in no hurry to buy and I believe this will result in even more price dropping for the used 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3..
So the questions;
- Which one would you choice and why (remember it’s not my daily car and I also have a manual M2)?
- In your opinion which one wil be the most fun to own over a long period of time and most fun on track?
- If I do want to sell it one day…If you have to guess; which one wil have lost the most money…? (I’m guessing 991.1 GT3)?
- You guys think there is a big difference in maintenance costs between a 981 GT4 and a 991.1 GT3? I know the older 997.2 GT3 has higher maintenance costs when tracking then the GT4...but how about the 991.1 GT3?
Thanks for the input :0
Easy, get the 991.1 GT3....Some backstory;
This GT3 / GT4 will do 7.000 - 8.000 miles a year with 50% track use (8 times a year) and 50% street use. My daily car is a manual M2 and this car is staying (I love it as my daily car). I really use my M2 everyday in whatever weather possible and I also drive it on track sometimes. I have some other street and sport cars in the garage for the moment. But some cars get not a lot of usage and I’m going to sell them all to make room for something else. Instead I want a two car garage only, with two cars that get more regular use. Like I said; my M2 will stay as my daily car (no kids / no dogs
) the rest of the BMW’s are going on sale this spring….and the plan is to buy my first Porsche.Why not order the new 991.2 GT3…? For me; it’s to expensive for a second car and you can make some nice deals in 2018 on the 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3. The budget I want to spend is the budget of a used 981 GT4 or a used 991.1 GT3…so no 991.1 GT3 RS….and I also skipped the older 997.2 GT3 3.8 from my list. So my shortlist is between the 981 GT4 or the 991.1 GT3 or if they launch a new 718 GT4 this year (but who knows this for sure?).
Yes; I know about the issue of the 3the gear with the GT4 and I know about the past troubles of the 991.1 GT3 engine (but there is the 10 year Porsche warranty now). One thing that is maybe good to know; I tend to keep my cars for a very long time and I love track driving (mostly Nurburgring). This car has to shine on track…because I also have my M2 for the street.
The GT4 engine is not that magical like the 991.1 GT3. Horsepower wise the GT4 is in the same league as my M2. Of course the GT4 has way more grip, better balance and higher track capabilities then my M2. The GT4 drives so nice with the manual gearbox. The gearing is a bit long and there is of course the 3th gear reliability issue to keep in mind. Most GT4’s and GT3’s (in Europe) are now out of warranty.
I don’t like automatic gearboxes (PDK, DCT, S-tronic, Ferrari F1, etc) in sport cars when street driving…but when going full power on a track, these gearboxes have a purpose! In this territory I have no problems with this type of dual clutch gearbox. So incomes the 991.1 GT3 with the PDK only gearbox. I have driven a 997.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3…the difference is big between both cars (I love them both). On track; I don’t really mis the manual gearbox… The engine of the 991.1 GT3 is way more magical then the 3.8 engine of the GT4. The GT3 performance and power is on another level then the GT4 and certainly then my M2. The difference between my M2 and the GT3 is bigger then between my M2 and the GT4. The 991.1 GT3 feels more like a supercar then a sports car. But that GT4 package with the manual gearbox and mid engine lay out is so very nice and so involving to drive (maybe even more so then the 991.1 GT3). In my country a used 981 GT4 is bit cheaper then a used 991.1 GT3….but the price difference between the two is not the main concern for me.
For the moment; I'm a bit stuck in choosing between the 981 GT4 vs 991.1 GT3...both have their pro's and con's...
Whatever my buying decision will be…I’m going to wait until the spring (after Geneva motorshow) when maybe the new 718 GT4 is already launched and also the 911.2 GT3 are more common by then. I'm in no hurry to buy and I believe this will result in even more price dropping for the used 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3..
So the questions;
- Which one would you choice and why (remember it’s not my daily car and I also have a manual M2)?
- In your opinion which one wil be the most fun to own over a long period of time and most fun on track?
- If I do want to sell it one day…If you have to guess; which one wil have lost the most money…? (I’m guessing 991.1 GT3)?
- You guys think there is a big difference in maintenance costs between a 981 GT4 and a 991.1 GT3? I know the older 997.2 GT3 has higher maintenance costs when tracking then the GT4...but how about the 991.1 GT3?
Thanks for the input :0
Edited by Franzino on Monday 15th January 00:23
I've owned a GT4, did several thousand miles in it - liked it, but it never felt special like the GT3. As previously mentioned, I've had 991.1 GT3, then 991RS, and now have a 991.2 GT3. All built to similar spec with PCCB, CS and buckets. Yes the gen 2 GT3 is an improvement, but we're talking incremental changes - it actually makes the gen 1 GT3 look great value compared to current premiums on the gen 2 car.
How do you like your M2..? I swapped mine for an M140i. its very nearly as fast in a straight line, but it's crying out for some better dampers and an LSD...
Franzino said:
This year; I’m in the market for a used 991.1 GT3 or used 981 Cayman GT4
Some backstory;
This GT3 / GT4 will do 7.000 - 8.000 miles a year with 50% track use (8 times a year) and 50% street use. My daily car is a manual M2 and this car is staying (I love it as my daily car). I really use my M2 everyday in whatever weather possible and I also drive it on track sometimes. I have some other street and sport cars in the garage for the moment. But some cars get not a lot of usage and I’m going to sell them all to make room for something else. Instead I want a two car garage only, with two cars that get more regular use. Like I said; my M2 will stay as my daily car (no kids / no dogs ) the rest of the BMW’s are going on sale this spring….and the plan is to buy my first Porsche.
Why not order the new 991.2 GT3…? For me; it’s to expensive for a second car and you can make some nice deals in 2018 on the 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3. The budget I want to spend is the budget of a used 981 GT4 or a used 991.1 GT3…so no 991.1 GT3 RS….and I also skipped the older 997.2 GT3 3.8 from my list. So my shortlist is between the 981 GT4 or the 991.1 GT3 or if they launch a new 718 GT4 this year (but who knows this for sure?).
Yes; I know about the issue of the 3the gear with the GT4 and I know about the past troubles of the 991.1 GT3 engine (but there is the 10 year Porsche warranty now). One thing that is maybe good to know; I tend to keep my cars for a very long time and I love track driving (mostly Nurburgring). This car has to shine on track…because I also have my M2 for the street.
The GT4 engine is not that magical like the 991.1 GT3. Horsepower wise the GT4 is in the same league as my M2. Of course the GT4 has way more grip, better balance and higher track capabilities then my M2. The GT4 drives so nice with the manual gearbox. The gearing is a bit long and there is of course the 3th gear reliability issue to keep in mind. Most GT4’s and GT3’s (in Europe) are now out of warranty.
I don’t like automatic gearboxes (PDK, DCT, S-tronic, Ferrari F1, etc) in sport cars when street driving…but when going full power on a track, these gearboxes have a purpose! In this territory I have no problems with this type of dual clutch gearbox. So incomes the 991.1 GT3 with the PDK only gearbox. I have driven a 997.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3…the difference is big between both cars (I love them both). On track; I don’t really mis the manual gearbox… The engine of the 991.1 GT3 is way more magical then the 3.8 engine of the GT4. The GT3 performance and power is on another level then the GT4 and certainly then my M2. The difference between my M2 and the GT3 is bigger then between my M2 and the GT4. The 991.1 GT3 feels more like a supercar then a sports car. But that GT4 package with the manual gearbox and mid engine lay out is so very nice and so involving to drive (maybe even more so then the 991.1 GT3). In my country a used 981 GT4 is bit cheaper then a used 991.1 GT3….but the price difference between the two is not the main concern for me.
For the moment; I'm a bit stuck in choosing between the 981 GT4 vs 991.1 GT3...both have their pro's and con's...
Whatever my buying decision will be…I’m going to wait until the spring (after Geneva motorshow) when maybe the new 718 GT4 is already launched and also the 911.2 GT3 are more common by then. I'm in no hurry to buy and I believe this will result in even more price dropping for the used 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3..
So the questions;
- Which one would you choice and why (remember it’s not my daily car and I also have a manual M2)?
- In your opinion which one wil be the most fun to own over a long period of time and most fun on track?
- If I do want to sell it one day…If you have to guess; which one wil have lost the most money…? (I’m guessing 991.1 GT3)?
- You guys think there is a big difference in maintenance costs between a 981 GT4 and a 991.1 GT3? I know the older 997.2 GT3 has higher maintenance costs when tracking then the GT4...but how about the 991.1 GT3?
Thanks for the input :0
go for 991.1 GT3... and should take the lift... Some backstory;
This GT3 / GT4 will do 7.000 - 8.000 miles a year with 50% track use (8 times a year) and 50% street use. My daily car is a manual M2 and this car is staying (I love it as my daily car). I really use my M2 everyday in whatever weather possible and I also drive it on track sometimes. I have some other street and sport cars in the garage for the moment. But some cars get not a lot of usage and I’m going to sell them all to make room for something else. Instead I want a two car garage only, with two cars that get more regular use. Like I said; my M2 will stay as my daily car (no kids / no dogs
) the rest of the BMW’s are going on sale this spring….and the plan is to buy my first Porsche.Why not order the new 991.2 GT3…? For me; it’s to expensive for a second car and you can make some nice deals in 2018 on the 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3. The budget I want to spend is the budget of a used 981 GT4 or a used 991.1 GT3…so no 991.1 GT3 RS….and I also skipped the older 997.2 GT3 3.8 from my list. So my shortlist is between the 981 GT4 or the 991.1 GT3 or if they launch a new 718 GT4 this year (but who knows this for sure?).
Yes; I know about the issue of the 3the gear with the GT4 and I know about the past troubles of the 991.1 GT3 engine (but there is the 10 year Porsche warranty now). One thing that is maybe good to know; I tend to keep my cars for a very long time and I love track driving (mostly Nurburgring). This car has to shine on track…because I also have my M2 for the street.
The GT4 engine is not that magical like the 991.1 GT3. Horsepower wise the GT4 is in the same league as my M2. Of course the GT4 has way more grip, better balance and higher track capabilities then my M2. The GT4 drives so nice with the manual gearbox. The gearing is a bit long and there is of course the 3th gear reliability issue to keep in mind. Most GT4’s and GT3’s (in Europe) are now out of warranty.
I don’t like automatic gearboxes (PDK, DCT, S-tronic, Ferrari F1, etc) in sport cars when street driving…but when going full power on a track, these gearboxes have a purpose! In this territory I have no problems with this type of dual clutch gearbox. So incomes the 991.1 GT3 with the PDK only gearbox. I have driven a 997.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3…the difference is big between both cars (I love them both). On track; I don’t really mis the manual gearbox… The engine of the 991.1 GT3 is way more magical then the 3.8 engine of the GT4. The GT3 performance and power is on another level then the GT4 and certainly then my M2. The difference between my M2 and the GT3 is bigger then between my M2 and the GT4. The 991.1 GT3 feels more like a supercar then a sports car. But that GT4 package with the manual gearbox and mid engine lay out is so very nice and so involving to drive (maybe even more so then the 991.1 GT3). In my country a used 981 GT4 is bit cheaper then a used 991.1 GT3….but the price difference between the two is not the main concern for me.
For the moment; I'm a bit stuck in choosing between the 981 GT4 vs 991.1 GT3...both have their pro's and con's...
Whatever my buying decision will be…I’m going to wait until the spring (after Geneva motorshow) when maybe the new 718 GT4 is already launched and also the 911.2 GT3 are more common by then. I'm in no hurry to buy and I believe this will result in even more price dropping for the used 981 GT4 and 991.1 GT3..
So the questions;
- Which one would you choice and why (remember it’s not my daily car and I also have a manual M2)?
- In your opinion which one wil be the most fun to own over a long period of time and most fun on track?
- If I do want to sell it one day…If you have to guess; which one wil have lost the most money…? (I’m guessing 991.1 GT3)?
- You guys think there is a big difference in maintenance costs between a 981 GT4 and a 991.1 GT3? I know the older 997.2 GT3 has higher maintenance costs when tracking then the GT4...but how about the 991.1 GT3?
Thanks for the input :0
Edited by Franzino on Monday 15th January 00:23
because, it will become your daily drive... you will forget and sell your m2
I owned a GT4 for 18mths and 4000 miles and loved it as a road car however i never got round to tracking it..I now have a PDK 991.2 GT3 which IMO is in a completely different league to the GT4 in all aspects despite being in a different price bracket.
I managed to drive both the 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GT3 on track last summer and while both were astonishing it was the gen 1 that impressed me most as my expectations were lower..At the very top end (8-9k revs) i find the gen 1 engine more scintillating than both the gen 2 and RS.
The only big difference between the two gens was the low to mid range torque on the gen 2 is superior..In fact i feel the GT4 has better mid range torque than the gen 1 but over 5k the GT3's engine is in a different ballpark.
Another point is how impressive the PDKS is on the GT3s compared to the standard PDK lesser non motorsport Porsches,seven close ratios with no long overdrive top gear makes it untouchable on any track..The PDKS is a totally different box to the PDK in both software and hardware and designed for continuous hard track use.The gear cogs are both smaller,lighter and stronger than the PDK and the twin clutch is much stronger hence the lack of creep function.
A gen 1 991 GT3 at circa £120k especially if you can find one with the more durable G series engine is a great buy IMO and an absolute bargain compared to paying up to £200k for a gen 2..
All of the above is IMHO of course.
I managed to drive both the 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GT3 on track last summer and while both were astonishing it was the gen 1 that impressed me most as my expectations were lower..At the very top end (8-9k revs) i find the gen 1 engine more scintillating than both the gen 2 and RS.
The only big difference between the two gens was the low to mid range torque on the gen 2 is superior..In fact i feel the GT4 has better mid range torque than the gen 1 but over 5k the GT3's engine is in a different ballpark.
Another point is how impressive the PDKS is on the GT3s compared to the standard PDK lesser non motorsport Porsches,seven close ratios with no long overdrive top gear makes it untouchable on any track..The PDKS is a totally different box to the PDK in both software and hardware and designed for continuous hard track use.The gear cogs are both smaller,lighter and stronger than the PDK and the twin clutch is much stronger hence the lack of creep function.
A gen 1 991 GT3 at circa £120k especially if you can find one with the more durable G series engine is a great buy IMO and an absolute bargain compared to paying up to £200k for a gen 2..
All of the above is IMHO of course.
Trgasy said:
go for 991.1 GT3... and should take the lift...
because, it will become your daily drive... you will forget and sell your m2
LOL; if I did not have to go to work with my car...I could do that. But my "debadged" M2 is already something that draws to much attention in my work environment.because, it will become your daily drive... you will forget and sell your m2
IREvans said:
Easy, get the 991.1 GT3....
I've owned a GT4, did several thousand miles in it - liked it, but it never felt special like the GT3. As previously mentioned, I've had 991.1 GT3, then 991RS, and now have a 991.2 GT3. All built to similar spec with PCCB, CS and buckets. Yes the gen 2 GT3 is an improvement, but we're talking incremental changes - it actually makes the gen 1 GT3 look great value compared to current premiums on the gen 2 car.
How do you like your M2..? I swapped mine for an M140i. its very nearly as fast in a straight line, but it's crying out for some better dampers and an LSD...
Indeed; the gen 1 991 GT3 (with warranty) looks like good value at this moment.... But even if get a GT4; it will be far from a punishment. My initial idea was to get a GT4 this year...but this changed a little when I bought my M2 last year. I really love this car as my daily driver...it's such a nice and exciting car for this price and also very practical. When you change the brake pads and brake oil it also very good on track for a stock BMW M car with street tyres: https://youtu.be/ntoCd8H1kbgI've owned a GT4, did several thousand miles in it - liked it, but it never felt special like the GT3. As previously mentioned, I've had 991.1 GT3, then 991RS, and now have a 991.2 GT3. All built to similar spec with PCCB, CS and buckets. Yes the gen 2 GT3 is an improvement, but we're talking incremental changes - it actually makes the gen 1 GT3 look great value compared to current premiums on the gen 2 car.
How do you like your M2..? I swapped mine for an M140i. its very nearly as fast in a straight line, but it's crying out for some better dampers and an LSD...
Edited by Franzino on Tuesday 16th January 00:55
Taffy66 said:
I owned a GT4 for 18mths and 4000 miles and loved it as a road car however i never got round to tracking it..I now have a PDK 991.2 GT3 which IMO is in a completely different league to the GT4 in all aspects despite being in a different price bracket.
I managed to drive both the 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GT3 on track last summer and while both were astonishing it was the gen 1 that impressed me most as my expectations were lower..At the very top end (8-9k revs) i find the gen 1 engine more scintillating than both the gen 2 and RS.
The only big difference between the two gens was the low to mid range torque on the gen 2 is superior..In fact i feel the GT4 has better mid range torque than the gen 1 but over 5k the GT3's engine is in a different ballpark.
Another point is how impressive the PDKS is on the GT3s compared to the standard PDK lesser non motorsport Porsches,seven close ratios with no long overdrive top gear makes it untouchable on any track..The PDKS is a totally different box to the PDK in both software and hardware and designed for continuous hard track use.The gear cogs are both smaller,lighter and stronger than the PDK and the twin clutch is much stronger hence the lack of creep function.
A gen 1 991 GT3 at circa £120k especially if you can find one with the more durable G series engine is a great buy IMO and an absolute bargain compared to paying up to £200k for a gen 2..
All of the above is IMHO of course.
Thanks for the comparison between the gen 1 vs gen 2...I managed to drive both the 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GT3 on track last summer and while both were astonishing it was the gen 1 that impressed me most as my expectations were lower..At the very top end (8-9k revs) i find the gen 1 engine more scintillating than both the gen 2 and RS.
The only big difference between the two gens was the low to mid range torque on the gen 2 is superior..In fact i feel the GT4 has better mid range torque than the gen 1 but over 5k the GT3's engine is in a different ballpark.
Another point is how impressive the PDKS is on the GT3s compared to the standard PDK lesser non motorsport Porsches,seven close ratios with no long overdrive top gear makes it untouchable on any track..The PDKS is a totally different box to the PDK in both software and hardware and designed for continuous hard track use.The gear cogs are both smaller,lighter and stronger than the PDK and the twin clutch is much stronger hence the lack of creep function.
A gen 1 991 GT3 at circa £120k especially if you can find one with the more durable G series engine is a great buy IMO and an absolute bargain compared to paying up to £200k for a gen 2..
All of the above is IMHO of course.
Porsche911R said:
I never agree with people who say the GT4 is too easy to drive, most are just not driving it fast enough, if they say that Imo.
I would say any PDK car is far far less of a challenge by a country mile and then some and then add even more some :-)
PDK, E-diff's, RWS, PTV all makes it very easy in fact all new cars are very easy to drive fast.
I personally like the challenge when driving on track and then try to follow or overtake (on paper) faster cars solely because my driving is better or I now my car better. IMO it should be so fun hunting the GT3 with a GT4...when driving the GT3 it is rather obvious you are fast on track and almost beat every other car if there is no RS, McLaren, Lambo, Ferrari around. But I think the excitement and racecar feel is probably bigger with the GT3 (on track) and a bigger difference then my previous / current cars. With my Z4M I had sometimes fun doing this....me chasing a turbo S that really does not want to move aside because of his ego I would say any PDK car is far far less of a challenge by a country mile and then some and then add even more some :-)
PDK, E-diff's, RWS, PTV all makes it very easy in fact all new cars are very easy to drive fast.
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 15th January 15:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6DrdXTGB30&t=6...Edited by Franzino on Tuesday 16th January 00:59
Franzino said:
Taffy66 said:
I owned a GT4 for 18mths and 4000 miles and loved it as a road car however i never got round to tracking it..I now have a PDK 991.2 GT3 which IMO is in a completely different league to the GT4 in all aspects despite being in a different price bracket.
I managed to drive both the 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GT3 on track last summer and while both were astonishing it was the gen 1 that impressed me most as my expectations were lower..At the very top end (8-9k revs) i find the gen 1 engine more scintillating than both the gen 2 and RS.
The only big difference between the two gens was the low to mid range torque on the gen 2 is superior..In fact i feel the GT4 has better mid range torque than the gen 1 but over 5k the GT3's engine is in a different ballpark.
Another point is how impressive the PDKS is on the GT3s compared to the standard PDK lesser non motorsport Porsches,seven close ratios with no long overdrive top gear makes it untouchable on any track..The PDKS is a totally different box to the PDK in both software and hardware and designed for continuous hard track use.The gear cogs are both smaller,lighter and stronger than the PDK and the twin clutch is much stronger hence the lack of creep function.
A gen 1 991 GT3 at circa £120k especially if you can find one with the more durable G series engine is a great buy IMO and an absolute bargain compared to paying up to £200k for a gen 2..
All of the above is IMHO of course.
Thanks for the comparison between the gen 1 vs gen 2...I managed to drive both the 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GT3 on track last summer and while both were astonishing it was the gen 1 that impressed me most as my expectations were lower..At the very top end (8-9k revs) i find the gen 1 engine more scintillating than both the gen 2 and RS.
The only big difference between the two gens was the low to mid range torque on the gen 2 is superior..In fact i feel the GT4 has better mid range torque than the gen 1 but over 5k the GT3's engine is in a different ballpark.
Another point is how impressive the PDKS is on the GT3s compared to the standard PDK lesser non motorsport Porsches,seven close ratios with no long overdrive top gear makes it untouchable on any track..The PDKS is a totally different box to the PDK in both software and hardware and designed for continuous hard track use.The gear cogs are both smaller,lighter and stronger than the PDK and the twin clutch is much stronger hence the lack of creep function.
A gen 1 991 GT3 at circa £120k especially if you can find one with the more durable G series engine is a great buy IMO and an absolute bargain compared to paying up to £200k for a gen 2..
All of the above is IMHO of course.
Totally agree about the upper rev range of the Gen1. Mines a screaming good ride. Hope she stays that way. Always was mega careful and still are re its warm up before any spirited driving.
Will go for a Gen2 though if it pops up. Told end of Jan is the deadline for waiters, after that its bunfight time for the RS..
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