Recovery and restoration of p61
Discussion
It would be nice to see a P-61 in the air. I think there is another restoration project in the US as well. After WW2, some P-61s were used as weather research aircraft.
Northrop also used them as chase planes for their Flying Wing bomber programme.
Northrop also used them as chase planes for their Flying Wing bomber programme.
Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 2nd January 13:29
Realistically, how much of it will end up back in the air, if it had crashed yesterday it would be written off wouldn't it? Is it more a case of re-using non critical bits and using the main airframe as a 3d schematic to produce new parts? Will be impressive to see one in the air though.
People seem to get their knickers in a twist over matters such as this. There are no genuine original P-61s flying anywhere, at all. Getting a restoration that is largely NOT original but 100% accurate is the absolutely next best thing.
As the years go on, the availability of true original WW2 airframes, that will now be 70 odd years old, is going to diminish. And even if there are such airframes available, if a restorer want to get one into the air, they will be obliged to replace major sections of the airframe anyway so that much of the original MUST be lost.
As the years go on, the availability of true original WW2 airframes, that will now be 70 odd years old, is going to diminish. And even if there are such airframes available, if a restorer want to get one into the air, they will be obliged to replace major sections of the airframe anyway so that much of the original MUST be lost.
There is a slightly different attitude to recreated old machinery between the classic racing car world and the warbird restoration world.
The classic racing car world has, over the decades, set out some quite stringent rules as to what cars are eligible to race in various historic race series and which ones are not. This has created a bit of a stigma for those who have made or want to race modern but accurate recreations of historic racing cars.
We don't get this type of situation in the warbird world to anything like the same extent. I think the chief reason is that historic racing cares operate in a competitive environment and in that environment owners and racers don't like competitors having what they might perceive as a competitive advantage.
The warbird scene is not competitive so the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed and accepting.
The classic racing car world has, over the decades, set out some quite stringent rules as to what cars are eligible to race in various historic race series and which ones are not. This has created a bit of a stigma for those who have made or want to race modern but accurate recreations of historic racing cars.
We don't get this type of situation in the warbird world to anything like the same extent. I think the chief reason is that historic racing cares operate in a competitive environment and in that environment owners and racers don't like competitors having what they might perceive as a competitive advantage.
The warbird scene is not competitive so the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed and accepting.
Brother D said:
I hadn't read of this before. Interesting story
http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_recovery.htm
I remember it being recovered and the bits going into the workshop. It was estimated that it might take 10 years to get it in the air.http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_recovery.htm
We're nearly 23 years later, and at current rate of progress, I suspect that it will possibly be close to being another 10 years hence before we're likely to see it in the air. I suspect if someone gave them a blank cheque, it could be in the air within a couple of years or less.
NAAM posted an update last month, with costs during progress, which gives an appreciation of the parts costs of something like this.
"So, to keep you updated, we will explain where we are with the restoration.
1. Our wing spars are still outsourced to the machine shop and are not completed yet - thus no new spar photos.
2. During 2017 several donors stepped forward which has enabled us to order four new brake assemblies ($20,000), order two diamond tread 47s.c. tires ($7,500), overhaul all of the pilot instruments ($10,000), and overhaul all four of the submersible boost pumps ($5,800). All of the above items are now in-house except the four brake assemblies which are expected in the 2nd quarter of 2018.
3. Another donor has provided the necessary funds to send one of the R2800-65 engines to Anderson Aeromotive for an overhaul ($85,000). The second engine will follow as funding becomes available.
4. The task of making pattern templates for the four fuel bladders is in progress. The two inboard tank patterns have been completed and test fitted. The initial patterns for the two outboard tanks will begin in January 2018.
5. Wiring harnesses continue to be built and installed in the airframe.
6. A materials list is being put together to begin building the control cables for the engines and airframe. We expect to order materials for this part of the project in the 1st quarter of 2018.
Work continues on the P-61 on a daily basis. We assure you the project continues to move forward. I urge you to please be patient and allow us to continue with the various aspects of this spectacular aircraft restoration and we promise to post additional photos as opportunities for new material become available. Thank you for your patience and understanding."
Yertis said:
Eric Mc said:
The warbird scene is not competitive so the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed and accepting.
Having read the saga of getting that P61 off the mountainside you might want to reconsider that. ??I was referring to what happens after they are restored. I've never heard of a restored warbird being barred from an air show because it's not 100% original.
Eric Mc said:
RETRIEVAL of warbirds can be very problematic. Even governments get involved.
I was referring to what happens after they are restored. I've never heard of a restored warbird being barred from an air show because it's not 100% original.
Wasn't there a case with one of the Duxford collections a few years back when the CAA objected to some non spec parts being used? The fact that the parts (might have been some kind of fabric) were new wasn't the problem, it was the spec. I was referring to what happens after they are restored. I've never heard of a restored warbird being barred from an air show because it's not 100% original.
Dr Jekyll said:
Wasn't there a case with one of the Duxford collections a few years back when the CAA objected to some non spec parts being used? The fact that the parts (might have been some kind of fabric) were new wasn't the problem, it was the spec.
There was. All the CAA (and most certification authorities) are concerned about is that the aircraft is airworthy. They are not concerned whether components are authentic or not.Indeed, if an unauthentic part or technique is required to achieve airworthiness, they will insist on it.
That is what happened with the Sturmovik I mentioned previously. The FAA wouldn’t sanction the rather sloppy way the control runs were laid out in the original design.
Eric Mc said:
There is a slightly different attitude to recreated old machinery between the classic racing car world and the warbird restoration world.
The classic racing car world has, over the decades, set out some quite stringent rules as to what cars are eligible to race in various historic race series and which ones are not. This has created a bit of a stigma for those who have made or want to race modern but accurate recreations of historic racing cars.
We don't get this type of situation in the warbird world to anything like the same extent. I think the chief reason is that historic racing cares operate in a competitive environment and in that environment owners and racers don't like competitors having what they might perceive as a competitive advantage.
The warbird scene is not competitive so the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed and accepting.
The price of failure is more of a concern when you're in an aircraft too.The classic racing car world has, over the decades, set out some quite stringent rules as to what cars are eligible to race in various historic race series and which ones are not. This has created a bit of a stigma for those who have made or want to race modern but accurate recreations of historic racing cars.
We don't get this type of situation in the warbird world to anything like the same extent. I think the chief reason is that historic racing cares operate in a competitive environment and in that environment owners and racers don't like competitors having what they might perceive as a competitive advantage.
The warbird scene is not competitive so the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed and accepting.
Dr Jekyll said:
Wasn't there a case with one of the Duxford collections a few years back when the CAA objected to some non spec parts being used? The fact that the parts (might have been some kind of fabric) were new wasn't the problem, it was the spec.
Didn't they object to the reproduction 'Colditz' glider using old table cloths and home made glue and dope in its construction? Can't think why. 
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