Best 'short term' ferrari?

[maxf]

I'm moving to Australia in the autumn, and looking at Ferrari prices over there will not be buying one when I'm there (£175k for a 360 spider)!

We've always wanted a Ferrari so are looking at buying one in the UK for the summer to sell before we go - not ideal but at least we'd have done it!

So, the golden question: which in your opinion is the one to go for for such a short term? If money were no object then I clearly wouldn't be asking the question - it is. I need to factor in:

Depreciation
Running costs
Sell-ability at the end

We can just about stretch to an early 360. Will they tumble when the 430s start arriving? What about a 355 - have they levelled off? 328s must be stable now?

Any major 'don'ts' as far as resale goes? I've seen a LHD 355 spider in yellow for under £40k which seems cheap, but it has 55k miles on it. A killer on reslae when Ive done 10k more?

Any opinions gratefully received - I did have a look in the archive but couldn't see anything.

Max

[Jonny5]

maxf said:

I've seen a LHD 355 spider in yellow for under £40k which seems cheap, but it has 55k miles on it. A killer on reslae when Ive done 10k more? Max

That car has been around for quite a while. Resale wise, you are going to have difficulty unless you drop the price substancially. I know somebody who sold a yellow Spider with a similar mileage for 32k and that was privately

Wouldn't touch it with a bargepole ! Spend a little more, get a cleaner car with less mileage

this one looks nice

www.pistonheads.com/ads/detail.asp?i=39636&s=192

[jrm]

Jonny5 said:

this one looks nice www.pistonheads.com/ads/detail.asp?i=39636&s=192

I know this one actually and it's certainly well looked after and well maintained - makes a fantstic noise with that exhaust as well

[maxf]

Thanks!

What do people think about LHD 355's come resale? They certainly appear very good value compared to RHD.

Any thoughts on owning something like this for such a short time? Major pitfalls - aside from buying in spring and selling in autumn?

[v15ben]

If you sell in late summer, I would think you would have more chance of flogging it and also at a higher price than late on in the year!

[carl_w]

jrm said:

I know this one actually and it's certainly well looked after and well maintained - makes a fantstic noise with that exhaust as well

Looks fantastic . I doubt it will still be around when I get my shit together , though

[iguana]

If it were posible for you to own it for 12months, you could take it with you & sell it for good bucks in Oz.

[murph7355]

I think if you need to dip in and out quickly it's going to cost you no matter what you buy, unless you're lucky (find a car quickly that's cheap, and sell it equally quickly).

I'd probably be inclined to seek out something cheaper, then sell it on cheaply (perhaps a well used 308, or a 348). At least then your exposure is minimised if you can'[t sell quickly.

Difficulty's going to be the speed element I think.

Also, you're going to have to avoid buying from and selling back to a dealer I suspect, as straight away you're taking a big hit (money at both ends).

How much time in the six (?) months you're likely to have it are you going to be able to drive it? And how many miles do you think you might do?

It might be better to rent one for the times you're able to drive it?

Or perhaps see if one of the "clubs" will allow you to buy a 6mth membership - e.g. I'm sure I've read that P1 is something like 12-18k per year? If you could get a 6mth membership for half that, you're going to get access to some serious kit (Ferraris, Lambos, Astons, Porkers), and the overall hit once you take all running costs incl. "depreciation" (to include dealer margins, your own time finding something/selling something) may not be that much different.

[maxf]

murph7355 said:

It might be better to rent one for the times you're able to drive it? Or perhaps see if one of the "clubs" will allow you to buy a 6mth membership - e.g. I'm sure I've read that P1 is something like 12-18k per year? If you could get a 6mth membership for half that, you're going to get access to some serious kit (Ferraris, Lambos, Astons, Porkers), and the overall hit once you take all running costs incl. "depreciation" (to include dealer margins, your own time finding something/selling something) may not be that much different.

We rented a 360-F1 last weekend which really confirmed that we need our Ferrari fix before we go.

I have thought about the 'clubs' - the problem with P1 isn't the cost as such (10k + joining fee when I last looked IIRC) but the fact that a) we might not be around for the year, and I don't think they do short term membership - although I could simply use all the points before we go, and b) you need to be forwarded and vetted (I don't know a member, and we probably dont meet the 'level' of what I assume are their normal members - being a 'normal' couple, albeit with a huge passion for cars).

The club which was advertised on PH seems more viable, although the website details are sketchy at best. It doesnt seem to be operational yet, with no fixed dates and no details of the points 'cost' of cars as far as I can see.

Thinking it through, I agree that a car club and maybe trading up to something else not available in OZ would be a decent option - but something more 'stable' for short term ownership - maybe a 993 or clubsport, or a cheaper 348.

[littlebro]

I'd be tempted by the option suggested above - get one, keep it for 12 months (even if you move before the 12 months is up, if this is still OK), then get it over to Aus and have a bit of Ferrari fun down there, before selling it and maybe recouping your costs.

Jamie

[maxf]

The problems with taking a car to OZ are fairly extensive - even moreso with something like a ferrari.

Shipping is fine and amazingly straight forward.

Once the car is in OZ it needs making road legal - new speedo in some states (as you are not allowed to have mph simply blanked off). Also in some states LHD cars are simply not allowed. So potentially I'd have to buy a RHD 355 and budget for what could be fairly extensive work to make it road legal - obviously the number of independant specialists over there will be close to 0, so its 'bend over' at a main dealer time.

Then there are the taxes - there are two taxes to pay - one based on a percentage of value (10% I think) - that's OZ value, not UK (and their F-car prices are hugely inflated over UK prices), then a second tax on the value plus the shipping/work costs.

Taking an elise over was going to cost approx £6k - shipping an F355 will be the same, but all other costs will be much greater - a realistic guestimate might be £20k?

So buying a RHD F355 - say £55k for a good one - plus costs = possibly £75k! Not to mention less choice for servicing/maintenance/parts availability = dearer running costs (possibly).

Now it could still work out ok - maybe picking up a cheaper UK car and doing the 'conversion' work over here - but how mcuh would a UK import be worth in OZ? Not Australian market value I'd bet.

I think I'll end up with a bombproof 996 or something out there to be honest - rather than the risks Id be taking on shipping a 355 over. A shame because a Ferrari out there would be great - and very rare to boot

[mhh]

Ferraris aren't that rare in Australia. Per head of population, Australia is one of Ferrari's best markets. For example, there are currently 85 used Ferraris for sale here.


www.drive.com.au/used/search/results.aspx?from=4&m=FERRARI


Remember, the $ are Australian, not US.

[iguana]

maxf said:

The problems with taking a car to OZ are fairly extensive - even moreso with something like a ferrari. Once the car is in OZ it needs making road legal - new speedo in some states (as you are not allowed to have mph simply blanked off). Also in some states LHD cars are simply not allowed. So potentially I'd have to buy a RHD 355 and budget for what could be fairly extensive work to make it road legal - obviously the number of independant specialists over there will be close to 0, so its 'bend over' at a main dealer time. Then there are the taxes - there are two taxes to pay - one based on a percentage of value (10% I think) - that's OZ value, not UK (and their F-car prices are hugely inflated over UK prices), then a second tax on the value plus the shipping/work costs. Now it could still work out ok - maybe picking up a cheaper UK car and doing the 'conversion' work over here - but how mcuh would a UK import be worth in OZ? Not Australian market value I'd bet.

My cuz has just taken his TVR out with him so I know a few of the bits involved-

LHD is I think a no no now in all states on imports, some classic stuff may be exempt but I think even they are banned from import now, plus you have to have to by law in some states (maybe all of them) have a super gay 'THIS VEHICLE IS LEFT HAND DRIVE' plate on the back anyway which is naff in the extreme!

The import tax is as far as im aware based on the purchace value you paid in UK on purchace of the car no matter when that was, so if you bought it new... ouch!! but all RHD 355s are now *ahem* £25-£30k over here anyway arent they??... 10% of that wont sting too much & im sure your purchace invoice will say that if you are switched on anyway.....


There road legal test, well could be a pain, but in a few states there is no annual MOT type check, just re-reggo which requ, so often a temp fix to get though the test is fine.
Pretty much any thing exotic is worth a lot more in OZ even after you've paid import taxes tho, my cuz thinks he may get double the UK value for his TVR on re-sale, thinks only 1 other TVR Chim in Queensland!

The owning 12 moths thing is a bit of a grey area, & they do odd things in told like check ya passport, to ensure it was your normal road car not bought in uk then you went over seas for a year.

Now i dunno if this means you couldnt run it in uK for 6 months, ship it to Oz still registered as a uk car & run it round for a year (which is fine & I know folks who have done it- but you need to be a tourist for that not a resident) then either car could come back to UK for re-sale, or maybe you could ship it to NZ etc for a few quid then back in to OZ again as in import?? or even as it already in Oz = cheaper to ship to Japan/Hong kong/Singapore for RHD re-sale perhaps.

[mhh]

UK delivered cars are notoriously difficult to sell in Australia, so my advice is only bring one out if you have a sentimental attachment to it. Otherwise, you are better off buying an Australian delivered car. Even if you pay more, the resale is much higher and your cost of ownership will be comparable or cheaper.

Now the TVR is rare in Australia , but don't assume that rarity will result in a good resale as it won't. This market isn't overly fond of the UK specialist brands and one without dealer support will sink without trace.

[maxf]

All good points.

The website does indeed show a good number of used Ferraris - but check out the costs. A 2000 360 Modena works out at £125,000!

While I will be on fairly decent money, as will Claire we won't be able to run the that much $$ unfortunately - not without giving up any other hobbies/chance of having a boat to play with!

[mhh]

Maxf, if it helps, the asking price and the achieved price usually differ widely at the momemt, particularly for the 360. However, there's no getting away from it - a nice car will cost you more down here.

BTW, where in Australia are you moving too?

[maxf]

We'll be in Sydney if all goes to plan. There is an office in Melborne though so could be there for a while as well. Looking forward to it.

I'll probably end up with a 'ute (sp?) after all this

[mhh]

maxf said:

I'll probably end up with a 'ute (sp?) after all this

This'll be your ute then.

www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=8094&vf=1

>> Edited by mhh on Friday 15th April 10:31

[brendonj]

Max,

FYI I think Oz may also have a 'luxury car tax'. From what I recall (its been a few years now) its 100% on new cars but drops to 50% on cars that 1 year old.

Just something you might want to check out in case they sting you with this additional charge.

[seandudding]

Hi Guys

Come over from the Porsche forum. I will be going to sydney to live in about 2 years, and I always planned on taking my GT3RS with me. I looked into this, and thought costs would be around 15k with import tax etc.

It is worth while, the problem is that if UK cars are worth a lot less it hardly makes it worth while.

Plus as someone said abouve, just because a car is advertised at 200k AUD doesn;t meal that it sold for anything like that.

It's all to confusing...

Has nayone actually taken a car to oz and sold it there??

Cheers Sean