What Makes The Unemployable Unemployable?
Discussion
And I'm not talking about the facially tatood, the only there coz the Job Centre made them, the chavtastic, the clearly not very bright,
I read of a sad case today in Metro. A 37 year old PA/administrator found herself redundant after 16 years in employment. She had an excellent work record, good qualicatioms, was presentable and conscientious. In spite of this after 7 months of job hunting without success she became so dispondant she took her own life. Admittedly that suggests there may have been a shakyness on the mental health front that manifested in the selection process but then again I've seen cases where very stable individuals have struggled.
I've been in this position myself where after the credit crunch I lost my job as a commercial manager for a small construction company and property developer. In spite of being a graduate surveyor with years of experience and years of successfully obtaining the right jobs at the right time for the right salary I found myself sounding like the poor souls on news programs who had applied for hundreds of jobs right down to McDonald's, call centres and Amazon/Sports Direct distribution centres (who allegedly will take anyone) all without success. I eventually found a facilities management company prepared to take an older more senior surveyor prepared to take a more junior position at a lower salary than I'd been paid in decades rather than years.
I've seen it happen to others. A very capable and presentable HR director who worked in another company I was with was made redundant when the entire operations staff were let go and replaced with contractors. It took her almost a year to return to the workplace.
Reading in the press about constant staff shortages, vancacies not being filled and it being a jobseekers market why are certain individuals finding jobseeking so difficult.
I read of a sad case today in Metro. A 37 year old PA/administrator found herself redundant after 16 years in employment. She had an excellent work record, good qualicatioms, was presentable and conscientious. In spite of this after 7 months of job hunting without success she became so dispondant she took her own life. Admittedly that suggests there may have been a shakyness on the mental health front that manifested in the selection process but then again I've seen cases where very stable individuals have struggled.
I've been in this position myself where after the credit crunch I lost my job as a commercial manager for a small construction company and property developer. In spite of being a graduate surveyor with years of experience and years of successfully obtaining the right jobs at the right time for the right salary I found myself sounding like the poor souls on news programs who had applied for hundreds of jobs right down to McDonald's, call centres and Amazon/Sports Direct distribution centres (who allegedly will take anyone) all without success. I eventually found a facilities management company prepared to take an older more senior surveyor prepared to take a more junior position at a lower salary than I'd been paid in decades rather than years.
I've seen it happen to others. A very capable and presentable HR director who worked in another company I was with was made redundant when the entire operations staff were let go and replaced with contractors. It took her almost a year to return to the workplace.
Reading in the press about constant staff shortages, vancacies not being filled and it being a jobseekers market why are certain individuals finding jobseeking so difficult.
I reckon it's because most employers are only interested in getting the cheapest person possible to do a single job and not expect any progression as it'll mean spending more time and money trying to find someone else.
If you're slightly older and more experienced employers just think you'll want/expect a lot more money and leave at the drop of a hat as soon as something better comes along so why bother.
It all depends on what kind of industry you work in though of course.
If you're slightly older and more experienced employers just think you'll want/expect a lot more money and leave at the drop of a hat as soon as something better comes along so why bother.
It all depends on what kind of industry you work in though of course.
A large factor is also the state of the market/cyclical state of the specific sector or industry.
Take the above surveyor/developer, nearly impossible to get a job in the '08-'11 period as all practices were retrenching/not hiring as there was little work, there was no scope for new employees as the focus was on cutting costs. This in part meant my dad (previously a partner/director of a QS practice) took a job as a dogsbody QS to get by....
Take the above surveyor/developer, nearly impossible to get a job in the '08-'11 period as all practices were retrenching/not hiring as there was little work, there was no scope for new employees as the focus was on cutting costs. This in part meant my dad (previously a partner/director of a QS practice) took a job as a dogsbody QS to get by....
Orchid1 said:
I reckon it's because most employers are only interested in getting the cheapest person possible to do a single job and not expect any progression as it'll mean spending more time and money trying to find someone else.
If you're slightly older and more experienced employers just think you'll want/expect a lot more money and leave at the drop of a hat as soon as something better comes along so why bother.
It all depends on what kind of industry you work in though of course.
Construction. I'm a quantity surveyor.If you're slightly older and more experienced employers just think you'll want/expect a lot more money and leave at the drop of a hat as soon as something better comes along so why bother.
It all depends on what kind of industry you work in though of course.
I was finding that employers were looking for applicants whose experience and qualification were so directly relevant to positions advertised they wanted staff who had pretty much done identical jobs with competitors.
One of my most heart breaking interviews was when applying for a job with a housebuilder looking for senior QSs to work on the construction of social housing as part of the Olympic Legacy. They established I had experience of working in London and the South East (not everyone from the provinces can hack it and things are done a bit differently) that I had worked in house building and that I had experience of contracting under local authority and housing association direction. This got me onto a shortlist where although I ticked many boxes they decided that whilst I'd built houses it was for commercial companies in Scotland and Northern England and whilst working for LAs in London it was FM contracts and not construction. Close but no prize.
kiethton said:
A large factor is also the state of the market/cyclical state of the specific sector or industry.
Take the above surveyor/developer, nearly impossible to get a job in the '08-'11 period as all practices were retrenching/not hiring as there was little work, there was no scope for new employees as the focus was on cutting costs. This in part meant my dad (previously a partner/director of a QS practice) took a job as a dogsbody QS to get by....
Is that you son?Take the above surveyor/developer, nearly impossible to get a job in the '08-'11 period as all practices were retrenching/not hiring as there was little work, there was no scope for new employees as the focus was on cutting costs. This in part meant my dad (previously a partner/director of a QS practice) took a job as a dogsbody QS to get by....
The job market is a many layered thing, and yes for some moving between one firm and another can be extremely challenging, especially as a "distressed move" following redundancy or as time goes by with no role. (I have been there myself too in 2009)
For some individuals, they will have something in the way they are at interviews which will always hold them back, a style, mannerism or communication flaw, that others see, but they have never had the right feedback or coaching on. That is super tough to break, especially if they have been long term employed, done good work and never needed to confront the problem.
As some here have experienced, in some sectors at some point in the employment cycle, no one in that industry is getting hired. Unless there is an extremely cash rich new entrant, keen to acquire talent in the off cycle (a great strategy if you have the money)
Even for the most resilient, a period of unemployment can be extremely distressing/depressing - financial worries, rejection, feelings of inadequacy seem to surface, even when all your life you may have been successful & happy.
If I interview someone, who I know we won't hire, I always try to give constructive feedback, as I know I have benefited from that in my past.
Eric Mc said:
Depression.
Mental health issues.
Alcohol and drug problems.
Non-relevant qualifications or qualifications becoming obsolete.
Eric has hit the nail squarely on the head.Mental health issues.
Alcohol and drug problems.
Non-relevant qualifications or qualifications becoming obsolete.
Back in the very early 90's I ran a training centre for the long term unemployed. They had to attend or benefits were cut.
Despite this at least 75% were never going to be employed. Sickness related to alcohol and drug use, depression was a major factor for a large percentage meaning non-attendance was regular. We had one who was a an ex-marketing manager who kept a bottle of vodka in her handbag and spent most of her time in tears.
Age was a real problem for some. I had one guy on the books who was a chartered accountant, at the time in his 50's. In the end he moved to find a job having looked locally for a year.
Another was a master butcher, again 50+. He ended up working nights in a cutting plant on a few quid and hour. This was before minimum wage.
Younger people had a better chance once they had a basic qualification in business admin or IT. I'd say the majority were no older than early 20's and we normally found them a job within a year.
21TonyK said:
Eric has hit the nail squarely on the head.
Back in the very early 90's I ran a training centre for the long term unemployed. They had to attend or benefits were cut.
Despite this at least 75% were never going to be employed. Sickness related to alcohol and drug use, depression was a major factor for a large percentage meaning non-attendance was regular. We had one who was a an ex-marketing manager who kept a bottle of vodka in her handbag and spent most of her time in tears.
Age was a real problem for some. I had one guy on the books who was a chartered accountant, at the time in his 50's. In the end he moved to find a job having looked locally for a year.
Another was a master butcher, again 50+. He ended up working nights in a cutting plant on a few quid and hour. This was before minimum wage.
Younger people had a better chance once they had a basic qualification in business admin or IT. I'd say the majority were no older than early 20's and we normally found them a job within a year.
This is kinda scary to read. I've never been technically unemployed but I did suffer a spell where I was, in reality; out of work. Back when construction bombed after the credit crunch I couldn't claim benifits as I owned and rented out property. The income only covered the servicing of the debt and some digs money to my partner of the time. I supplemented this by mucking out at stables and dog walking (best jobs I've ever had and kept me sane) along with some consultancy work (mostly PTQ work for very small construction companies and sole traders) and signing punters for grant funded cavity and loft insulation at £30 a pop.Back in the very early 90's I ran a training centre for the long term unemployed. They had to attend or benefits were cut.
Despite this at least 75% were never going to be employed. Sickness related to alcohol and drug use, depression was a major factor for a large percentage meaning non-attendance was regular. We had one who was a an ex-marketing manager who kept a bottle of vodka in her handbag and spent most of her time in tears.
Age was a real problem for some. I had one guy on the books who was a chartered accountant, at the time in his 50's. In the end he moved to find a job having looked locally for a year.
Another was a master butcher, again 50+. He ended up working nights in a cutting plant on a few quid and hour. This was before minimum wage.
Younger people had a better chance once they had a basic qualification in business admin or IT. I'd say the majority were no older than early 20's and we normally found them a job within a year.
I was shocked at how hard it was and how long it took to get another "proper job". Something I ended up very aware of was my age at the time (mid forties). Am now in my early 50s and dread another construction slump. Sad thing is Brexit is impacting on developers' confidence and changes in the way housing benifits are effecting housing association cash flows mean a storm's abrewing.
Another spell of unemployment and you may well find me on your course.
It's sad.
We regularly need to employ teams of people on short term contracts around the country. It's not min-wage stuff but we're not looking for brain surgeons either.
Often we interview people who are just simply unemployable. They posses no skills or virtues whatsoever. Sometimes this is attributable to the points Eric makes but sometimes, they are just simply unemployable.
On projects where we have larger teams and a bit of headroom, we do occasionally give these people an opportunity. I often think that it's a case that they are unemployable because nobody employs them and they have gotten into some vortex of unemployment so where we can, we given them a shot. Occasionally we see some startling results and with the confidence a job provides, people suddenly find the light switch. But this is rare with most simply incapable of operating beyond basic human function.
We regularly need to employ teams of people on short term contracts around the country. It's not min-wage stuff but we're not looking for brain surgeons either.
Often we interview people who are just simply unemployable. They posses no skills or virtues whatsoever. Sometimes this is attributable to the points Eric makes but sometimes, they are just simply unemployable.
On projects where we have larger teams and a bit of headroom, we do occasionally give these people an opportunity. I often think that it's a case that they are unemployable because nobody employs them and they have gotten into some vortex of unemployment so where we can, we given them a shot. Occasionally we see some startling results and with the confidence a job provides, people suddenly find the light switch. But this is rare with most simply incapable of operating beyond basic human function.
I'll agree with ageism being an issue. Redundant again at 50, I decided I had to become self-employed as there were so many applicants for all the local jobs advertised that the younger folk would get them as they either cost less or was to give them a chance.
I've been a self employed dog walker /pet sitter for over 7 years now, and It's a great job
eta - people can always work for themselves, they don't have to rely on others to give them a job.
I've been a self employed dog walker /pet sitter for over 7 years now, and It's a great job
eta - people can always work for themselves, they don't have to rely on others to give them a job.
There is a role for everyone out there, at all levels.
It may be a huge compromise for some in terms of type of role, remuneration, location etc, but there is a role for everyone.
The challenge for the individual is to recognise this and have the skills to secure the role (i.e. get to interview and then be selected at interview).
For some, this is quite a challenge, so some support may be necessary.
That support can take a number of forms, including: coaching to determine type of role and level that they should go for; how to market themselves (CV, cold-calling, networking etc); and interview techniques. Some advice on attitude may also be helpful to some.
It may be a huge compromise for some in terms of type of role, remuneration, location etc, but there is a role for everyone.
The challenge for the individual is to recognise this and have the skills to secure the role (i.e. get to interview and then be selected at interview).
For some, this is quite a challenge, so some support may be necessary.
That support can take a number of forms, including: coaching to determine type of role and level that they should go for; how to market themselves (CV, cold-calling, networking etc); and interview techniques. Some advice on attitude may also be helpful to some.
Having interviewed engineers for engineering positions I have seen this on a number of occasions.
Factors at work – in no particular order…. Remember ALL these are examples of experienced graduate level (and above) mechanical engineers. You know - those STEM people the country says it needs so badly.
Its years since their last interview, and they don’t interview well, especially if the interviewer is younger than they are. Maybe they can’t even dress properly for an interview.
If they WERE at management level, it’s considered they won’t be much of a team player, I don’t agree with this myself, but I certainly heard it.In some cases the possibility of going backwards, even if it’s only by a small amount is an anathema to them. It may be considered unlikely they will adapt to a new way of doing things.
They have become institutionalised to their current place of work, and once outside that safe place, they are lost.
Their skills are out of date. 30 years ago I worked with a technical illustrator, who worked on the drawing board, he was very good at it too. He saw the beginnings of 3D CAD in wireframe and someone editing out the lines on the views. He knew there and then, although some years away from the exploded/rendered functionality we have today, the writing was on the wall. So he went to work for the CAD software people – in Germany.
People won’t move to the work - I came down south to Buckinghamshire from Lancashire, others wouldn’t dream of it.
Your previous employer has a really bad reputation for the type of people they create, and people from there always struggle outside. You would be surprised as to which companies this includes.
Their knowledge is poor/out of date – we asked all engineers from grads to FIMECHE’s with 35+ years the same technical questions. Some of those senior engineers were nowhere as up to date and/or technical as they thought they were.
Their job type is out of date – we interviewed someone who had been the chief research chap at a major research establishment. He couldn’t find similar employment elsewhere, unsurprisingly. He had never used a drawing board or a CAD system, and I reckon he couldn’t actually read drawings, and didn’t think he should do…. Both of us interviewing had written the same conclusion on the interview report – arrogant.
They won’t travel and/or scared of flying - difficult when 75% of your customers are outside the UK.
Big commitments elsewhere in life – harsh, but that’s reality.
No driving licence and/or no car.
Unexplained long absence from the job market – this is where I desperately feel for those stuck in this trap.
Redundancy can be the making of some people and the destroying of others, and no-one knows which one they are going to be until it’s their turn. I have heard some truly gob-smacking opinions stated by ex-work colleagues along the lines of “the only people who get made redundant – deserved it”. I’m afraid to say it’s heard from the public school educated/silver spoon type who have contacts the rest of us can’t even dream of. I’ve been made redundant 4 times in my life, and those first few days afterwards is a total bomb shell, even when I’ve heard rumours that its coming.
For some it’s the massive kick in the pants they have needed to move onto something else, downsize, move away, emigrate, start a business… etc.…
For others, it’s a feeling of despair that may never ever leave them, a feeling of being turned onto the scrap heap and going backwards in their lives.
I think everyone at some time, has to repeatedly think - especially when going into a serious meeting with senior people presenting - is it this time it’s my turn for the restructuring/redundancy?
Are you just 3 payslips away from oblivion? And if so, what are you going to do about it?
Think about that and spare a weekend or 2 doing some homework NOW, and get digging. The workplace of today indicates that you may well need that clear logical thinking and ideas in the bank for that rainy day. Trying to plan your way out of it all when knocked for six, and depression is creeping in on you is incredibly hard work.
Factors at work – in no particular order…. Remember ALL these are examples of experienced graduate level (and above) mechanical engineers. You know - those STEM people the country says it needs so badly.
Its years since their last interview, and they don’t interview well, especially if the interviewer is younger than they are. Maybe they can’t even dress properly for an interview.
If they WERE at management level, it’s considered they won’t be much of a team player, I don’t agree with this myself, but I certainly heard it.In some cases the possibility of going backwards, even if it’s only by a small amount is an anathema to them. It may be considered unlikely they will adapt to a new way of doing things.
They have become institutionalised to their current place of work, and once outside that safe place, they are lost.
Their skills are out of date. 30 years ago I worked with a technical illustrator, who worked on the drawing board, he was very good at it too. He saw the beginnings of 3D CAD in wireframe and someone editing out the lines on the views. He knew there and then, although some years away from the exploded/rendered functionality we have today, the writing was on the wall. So he went to work for the CAD software people – in Germany.
People won’t move to the work - I came down south to Buckinghamshire from Lancashire, others wouldn’t dream of it.
Your previous employer has a really bad reputation for the type of people they create, and people from there always struggle outside. You would be surprised as to which companies this includes.
Their knowledge is poor/out of date – we asked all engineers from grads to FIMECHE’s with 35+ years the same technical questions. Some of those senior engineers were nowhere as up to date and/or technical as they thought they were.
Their job type is out of date – we interviewed someone who had been the chief research chap at a major research establishment. He couldn’t find similar employment elsewhere, unsurprisingly. He had never used a drawing board or a CAD system, and I reckon he couldn’t actually read drawings, and didn’t think he should do…. Both of us interviewing had written the same conclusion on the interview report – arrogant.
They won’t travel and/or scared of flying - difficult when 75% of your customers are outside the UK.
Big commitments elsewhere in life – harsh, but that’s reality.
No driving licence and/or no car.
Unexplained long absence from the job market – this is where I desperately feel for those stuck in this trap.
Redundancy can be the making of some people and the destroying of others, and no-one knows which one they are going to be until it’s their turn. I have heard some truly gob-smacking opinions stated by ex-work colleagues along the lines of “the only people who get made redundant – deserved it”. I’m afraid to say it’s heard from the public school educated/silver spoon type who have contacts the rest of us can’t even dream of. I’ve been made redundant 4 times in my life, and those first few days afterwards is a total bomb shell, even when I’ve heard rumours that its coming.
For some it’s the massive kick in the pants they have needed to move onto something else, downsize, move away, emigrate, start a business… etc.…
For others, it’s a feeling of despair that may never ever leave them, a feeling of being turned onto the scrap heap and going backwards in their lives.
I think everyone at some time, has to repeatedly think - especially when going into a serious meeting with senior people presenting - is it this time it’s my turn for the restructuring/redundancy?
Are you just 3 payslips away from oblivion? And if so, what are you going to do about it?
Think about that and spare a weekend or 2 doing some homework NOW, and get digging. The workplace of today indicates that you may well need that clear logical thinking and ideas in the bank for that rainy day. Trying to plan your way out of it all when knocked for six, and depression is creeping in on you is incredibly hard work.
I ran a recent job advert on FB for someone to help me with decorating my bungalow.
Perhaps a couple of weeks worth of casual work at £8hr. Suit student/retired etc..
I've just posted a rant on the outcome..
Out of three people who have replied to my decorating job advert and agreed to attend. I can report one man turned up for an hour, seemed ok, had a coffee and chat, and was then presumably abducted by aliens.
He left a garage wall half painted and packed lunch on the side. No sign of a struggle, just brushes on floor, paint lid off and vanished. Not even a goodbye or it's not for me. How bizarre.. Aliens presumably knew how to operate his phone/internet as they blocked me on FB and didn't answer text/phone call.
Anyway I ate his packed lunch.
Ok try again, two younger people this time. Both seem keen via FB messenger etc.
One young man Cameron turns up promptly and works all day no problem.
Young lady is a no show with no message or explanation, must have been abducted by aliens enroute this time.. Sad state of affairs really. 33.3% Success rate so far..
So my answer to the original post is poor attitude to work and dismal manners/communication.
Perhaps a couple of weeks worth of casual work at £8hr. Suit student/retired etc..
I've just posted a rant on the outcome..
Out of three people who have replied to my decorating job advert and agreed to attend. I can report one man turned up for an hour, seemed ok, had a coffee and chat, and was then presumably abducted by aliens.
He left a garage wall half painted and packed lunch on the side. No sign of a struggle, just brushes on floor, paint lid off and vanished. Not even a goodbye or it's not for me. How bizarre.. Aliens presumably knew how to operate his phone/internet as they blocked me on FB and didn't answer text/phone call.
Anyway I ate his packed lunch.
Ok try again, two younger people this time. Both seem keen via FB messenger etc.
One young man Cameron turns up promptly and works all day no problem.
Young lady is a no show with no message or explanation, must have been abducted by aliens enroute this time.. Sad state of affairs really. 33.3% Success rate so far..
So my answer to the original post is poor attitude to work and dismal manners/communication.
Long service in one company, doing one role, utilising a very limited set of skills.
A couple of years ago I was interviewing for a scientific position (for a Big Pharma) and we had a number of very well qualified scientists with many years experience and impressive publication records. However, in the main they had very little breadth of experience. They tended to have a limited range of skills and a very narrow knowledge base and, during interview at least, gave us no feeling that they had the capacity to adapt to knew techniques or new ways of working.
We weren't after the world expert in Protein X or microscope technique Y, we wanted people who could use their experience and judgement to get drug discovery projects moving. There were a few candidates that had been in one academic lab or commercial lab for 15+ years who looked terrified at the prospect of working somewhere different, let alone adapting to a new role.
A couple of years ago I was interviewing for a scientific position (for a Big Pharma) and we had a number of very well qualified scientists with many years experience and impressive publication records. However, in the main they had very little breadth of experience. They tended to have a limited range of skills and a very narrow knowledge base and, during interview at least, gave us no feeling that they had the capacity to adapt to knew techniques or new ways of working.
We weren't after the world expert in Protein X or microscope technique Y, we wanted people who could use their experience and judgement to get drug discovery projects moving. There were a few candidates that had been in one academic lab or commercial lab for 15+ years who looked terrified at the prospect of working somewhere different, let alone adapting to a new role.
peterperkins said:
I ran a recent job advert on FB for someone to help me with decorating my bungalow.
Perhaps a couple of weeks worth of casual work at £8hr. Suit student/retired etc..
I've just posted a rant on the outcome..
Out of three people who have replied to my decorating job advert and agreed to attend. I can report one man turned up for an hour, seemed ok, had a coffee and chat, and was then presumably abducted by aliens.
He left a garage wall half painted and packed lunch on the side. No sign of a struggle, just brushes on floor, paint lid off and vanished. Not even a goodbye or it's not for me. How bizarre.. Aliens presumably knew how to operate his phone/internet as they blocked me on FB and didn't answer text/phone call.
Anyway I ate his packed lunch.
Ok try again, two younger people this time. Both seem keen via FB messenger etc.
One young man Cameron turns up promptly and works all day no problem.
Young lady is a no show with no message or explanation, must have been abducted by aliens enroute this time.. Sad state of affairs really. 33.3% Success rate so far..
So my answer to the original post is poor attitude to work and dismal manners/communication.
Love this. Very amusing, especially eating his lunch. Perhaps a couple of weeks worth of casual work at £8hr. Suit student/retired etc..
I've just posted a rant on the outcome..
Out of three people who have replied to my decorating job advert and agreed to attend. I can report one man turned up for an hour, seemed ok, had a coffee and chat, and was then presumably abducted by aliens.
He left a garage wall half painted and packed lunch on the side. No sign of a struggle, just brushes on floor, paint lid off and vanished. Not even a goodbye or it's not for me. How bizarre.. Aliens presumably knew how to operate his phone/internet as they blocked me on FB and didn't answer text/phone call.
Anyway I ate his packed lunch.
Ok try again, two younger people this time. Both seem keen via FB messenger etc.
One young man Cameron turns up promptly and works all day no problem.
Young lady is a no show with no message or explanation, must have been abducted by aliens enroute this time.. Sad state of affairs really. 33.3% Success rate so far..
So my answer to the original post is poor attitude to work and dismal manners/communication.
bucksmanuk said:
They have become institutionalised to their current place of work, and once outside that safe place, they are lost.
.
I have been with my current employer for 15 years this December, a large bank in the City. I feel quite proud I have managed to stay here so long seeing a lot of colleagues come and go for various reasons. It is a good place to work, lots of opportunities to learn new things, good management and a really good bunch of people to work with, but of a commute but not too bad, work from home one day a week at least and leave at 16.30 every day. The role I am in now is easily transferable as well. There always seems to be redundancies going on a the moment but bearing in mind the length of service and the generous goodwill payments it wouldn’t be a disaster. If you work in the city redundancy is a fact of life, when not if..
However the comment on I have quoted concerns me..I don’t feel institutionalised, but if I went tomorrow, would this 15 years be a problem? Should we be moving employers more regularly to prevent this..even if we enjoy working with our current employer?
sir humphrey appleby said:
I have been with my current employer for 15 years this December, a large bank in the City. I feel quite proud I have managed to stay here so long seeing a lot of colleagues come and go for various reasons. It is a good place to work, lots of opportunities to learn new things, good management and a really good bunch of people to work with, but of a commute but not too bad, work from home one day a week at least and leave at 16.30 every day. The role I am in now is easily transferable as well. There always seems to be redundancies going on a the moment but bearing in mind the length of service and the generous goodwill payments it wouldn’t be a disaster. If you work in the city redundancy is a fact of life, when not if.
However the comment on I have quoted concerns me..I don’t feel institutionalised, but if I went tomorrow, would this 15 years be a problem? Should we be moving employers more regularly to prevent this..even if we enjoy working with our current employer?
I think it depends on how far up the greasy pole you are wanting to go. Have a look at the careers of senior people in your and similar industries and you'll probably find a 3-5 year movement cycle. However the comment on I have quoted concerns me..I don’t feel institutionalised, but if I went tomorrow, would this 15 years be a problem? Should we be moving employers more regularly to prevent this..even if we enjoy working with our current employer?
sir humphrey appleby said:
I have been with my current employer for 15 years this December, a large bank in the City. I feel quite proud I have managed to stay here so long seeing a lot of colleagues come and go for various reasons. It is a good place to work, lots of opportunities to learn new things, good management and a really good bunch of people to work with, but of a commute but not too bad, work from home one day a week at least and leave at 16.30 every day. The role I am in now is easily transferable as well. There always seems to be redundancies going on a the moment but bearing in mind the length of service and the generous goodwill payments it wouldn’t be a disaster. If you work in the city redundancy is a fact of life, when not if.
However the comment on I have quoted concerns me..I don’t feel institutionalised, but if I went tomorrow, would this 15 years be a problem? Should we be moving employers more regularly to prevent this..even if we enjoy working with our current employer?
Good pointHowever the comment on I have quoted concerns me..I don’t feel institutionalised, but if I went tomorrow, would this 15 years be a problem? Should we be moving employers more regularly to prevent this..even if we enjoy working with our current employer?
As ever with people involved - it depends….
Are your skills easily transferrable? This includes people, management, technical, projects and so on and so forth.
As I said, I can only speak from my time in engineering, and if people don’t keep their skills relevant to the engineering market, they really are lost. If you can keep climbing the ladder/pole, then you have the talents to succeed, pretty much in a wide variety of related industries.
A contractor friend of mine sits next to a chartered piping stress engineer. 3 years ago this guy was cracking £65/hr at one of the big petrochems, and looking forward to his next contract on even more. That was with oil at $110+
Roll on 2 years and oil was then below $40. This guy is on less than £30/hr. In just 2 years, his skills are not that relevant to the market. It’s an extreme example, but it’s real.
As you said, you are learning new things every day, as long as you embrace that and appreciate that you probably won’t be able to take your foot off that particular throttle, I can’t see how you can fail .
I am thinking of one bloke in particular that stands out who had 28 years of experience with just the one company who knew his job well, but his skills hadn’t gone anywhere in 10 years. There was a new MD in the company who was quite prepared to strip out the engineering function and start again, as he felt they were holding the place back. It was quite a harsh assessment, but I looked around and thought (then) this guy would be finished going for a job elsewhere. It’s just always stayed with me. I was the manager of said engineering function, and I was going to be given the task of creating a new team. I left shortly after.
Roll on 12 years, and I was speaking to an ex work colleague and the bloke above had been given the boot by a different set of management and decided to walk away from engineering altogether.
The real issue with moving jobs has been that people want to look after their pension. If it was final salary, they were hanging on in there for grim death, they would never leave. Also the company found it difficult affording to make someone redundant with 35+ years’ service behind them. For most of us, those days have gone now, and so the desire to hang on is disappearing. The job market has changed a great deal since I joined it.
Maybe I’ve been a contractor for too long! Only 5 years though….
As RTB said, have a look around you, what you see is usually the normal. If you aren’t the normal, it would just make the task that bit more difficult. More than happy to be proven wrong though.
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