Ride Height & Nitrons
Discussion
Hi, I have had a set of Nitrons, OZ rims & A048's fitted. Originally the car came back at the standard settings but I asked them to lower it a little. It is now about 108mm front, 115 rear. Seems to foul wheelarches now at full lock under load. Do you need much stiffer springs to run the motorsport geo & ride height!! Will be fitting uprated anti-roll bar?? will that help? Cheers guys
Agree with Peter.
If you wanted to run the car much lower you should have specified this when you ordered your kit. you'll need a shorter body tube which will require a shorter overall stroke length. you may need different spring assisters too (often called bump stops)
you should *not* run the std nitron kit lower than std height, you run into all sorts of issues, compounded of course if you start altering other things like massively altering wheel angles or wheel widths/diameters and offsets.
a big change of suspension needs to be adressed as a whole package .. i suggest you go back to your supplier / fitter and ask them to do it again with all this in mind. If you didn't suggest all this at the time then you'll probably end up paying again to get it sorted.
If you wanted to run the car much lower you should have specified this when you ordered your kit. you'll need a shorter body tube which will require a shorter overall stroke length. you may need different spring assisters too (often called bump stops)
you should *not* run the std nitron kit lower than std height, you run into all sorts of issues, compounded of course if you start altering other things like massively altering wheel angles or wheel widths/diameters and offsets.
a big change of suspension needs to be adressed as a whole package .. i suggest you go back to your supplier / fitter and ask them to do it again with all this in mind. If you didn't suggest all this at the time then you'll probably end up paying again to get it sorted.
joospeed said:
Agree with Peter.
you should *not* run the std nitron kit lower than std height, you run into all sorts of issues, compounded of course if you start altering other things like massively altering wheel angles or wheel widths/diameters and offsets.
What 'issues' specifically ?
Fd
fergusd said:
Agree with Peter.
you should *not* run the std nitron kit lower than std height, you run into all sorts of issues, compounded of course if you start altering other things like massively altering wheel angles or wheel widths/diameters and offsets.
What 'issues' specifically ?
Fd
I expect Joolz is referring to the spring preload and bump travel/stop issues, there are plenty of ways for this to go wrong. When I made my original comment I was thinking more in terms of effing up the handling ...
I understand the "issues" regarding just lowering the car and its effect on the geometry but have perhaps sailed down the wrong path a little.
I was reviewing the workshop manual suspension chapters prior to fitting the nitrons and saw the "motorsport" setup information and all the implications. I dont think there should be any issues other than perhaps the spring rates being a little low. The geometry was set at these heights, the steering rack was re-shimmed as noted in the manual & the handling is very sweet.
The only problem is that at full lock, downhill under braking etc. etc. the front wheel can rub the inner wheelarch very slightly. The wheels were from eliseparts & I will measure the offset just to be sure.
I will also check the springrates that were supplied.
I was reviewing the workshop manual suspension chapters prior to fitting the nitrons and saw the "motorsport" setup information and all the implications. I dont think there should be any issues other than perhaps the spring rates being a little low. The geometry was set at these heights, the steering rack was re-shimmed as noted in the manual & the handling is very sweet.
The only problem is that at full lock, downhill under braking etc. etc. the front wheel can rub the inner wheelarch very slightly. The wheels were from eliseparts & I will measure the offset just to be sure.
I will also check the springrates that were supplied.
Nitrons are designed to be adjustable for rideheight. Standard S2 heights are 130mm all round. You can go 10mm lower easily but much more and you will experience the problems you are getting. On a track you will tear out the wheel linings completely.
Just get it reset to about 115mm to 120mm and you will be fine for road and track - just need to firm up the dampers on track thats all
Just get it reset to about 115mm to 120mm and you will be fine for road and track - just need to firm up the dampers on track thats all
Hi.
I'm thinking specifically of running out of compression travel unless you increase spring rates. as you lower the car the top of the damper tube gets closer to the bump stop, limiting compression travel.
also for any given sprung roll resistance you'll increase roll angle as you lower the roll centre away from the centre of mass, this leads to loss of camber in roll.
if you want to lower the car you really need to consider raising the spring rates / roll resistance of the vehicle.
I'm thinking specifically of running out of compression travel unless you increase spring rates. as you lower the car the top of the damper tube gets closer to the bump stop, limiting compression travel.
also for any given sprung roll resistance you'll increase roll angle as you lower the roll centre away from the centre of mass, this leads to loss of camber in roll.
if you want to lower the car you really need to consider raising the spring rates / roll resistance of the vehicle.
joospeed said:
Hi.
I'm thinking specifically of running out of compression travel unless you increase spring rates. as you lower the car the top of the damper tube gets closer to the bump stop, limiting compression travel.
also for any given sprung roll resistance you'll increase roll angle as you lower the roll centre away from the centre of mass, this leads to loss of camber in roll.
if you want to lower the car you really need to consider raising the spring rates / roll resistance of the vehicle.
Right, so with the Elise Nitron dampers you can buy today, which are both shorter in open and closed length and stroke than the standard dampers, and run much higher spring rates front and rear . . . ignoring the required geo setup (which generally includes a negative camber increase), why is there a problem lowering the ride height ?
Fd
You can reset the static geometry, but changing the ride height will also impact the roll centers and camber compensation as Joolz mentioned earlier.
This is on top of any issues you might have with ground clearance, wheel arch clearance, bump travel, spring preload etc that have already been referred to.
At the end of the day it might be OK or it might not, but just because competition cars run lower it doesn't necessarily follow that it is OK to just wind the spring seats down on yours. Maybe I misunderstood, but from your original post I thought that was what you were doing.
This is on top of any issues you might have with ground clearance, wheel arch clearance, bump travel, spring preload etc that have already been referred to.
At the end of the day it might be OK or it might not, but just because competition cars run lower it doesn't necessarily follow that it is OK to just wind the spring seats down on yours. Maybe I misunderstood, but from your original post I thought that was what you were doing.
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