Advice please before meeting on Thursday
Discussion
Hi All,
iI'll try to keep as brief as possible.
Started a new job in March. Its a contract until March 2018 then possible extension (if they win funding) until 2020. I previously worked in sales and earned quadruple the money but had had enough of sales , was at a point where I could afford to leave, and decided to change career and accepted I would have to take a significant pay drop.
The job is basically marketing and PR. There are three of us in the team and a Director. I am classed as an 'Adviser' although I do the same job as the other two who are classed as Territory Managers. I report in to one of the other Territory Managers. In a nutshell she is lazy and does nothing.
There is an exhibition event which is held in 2018 after my contract ends. I met with my 'boss' on Monday for 3 hours to go through some objectives etc. These were then being emailed on.
Once they were emailed on she had also (sneaked in) given me a sales target for basically securing sponsorship for the whole exhibition event in 2018. She has given herself zero target to raise. None of this was mentioned during our three hour meeting on Monday.
The job was never advertised as a sales targeted role. If it had been I wouldn't have applied as the salary is pretty woeful and the required sales type are literally cold calling so grim. If I wanted to do sales I wouldn't have left my previous employer which I did on good terms.
I've taken issue with this and the Director has asked for a meeting on Thursday. I am ready to walk.
My boss also told me on Monday she had to fight to get me appointed as the other Territory Manager and the Director wanted somebody else. This of course has changed the dynamic of the office for me now as my (lazy) boss never goes to the office whereas I do a few times a week and have to sit on the same row of desks as the two people I now know didn't want me for the role.
So any advice on how to manage Thursday? I have basically said if I am expected to do sales against a target then this will have to be compensated as its fundamentally different to what is on the job description and it is for an event after my contract ends. They are saying its under 'any reasonable requirements'.
Thanks in advance.
iI'll try to keep as brief as possible.
Started a new job in March. Its a contract until March 2018 then possible extension (if they win funding) until 2020. I previously worked in sales and earned quadruple the money but had had enough of sales , was at a point where I could afford to leave, and decided to change career and accepted I would have to take a significant pay drop.
The job is basically marketing and PR. There are three of us in the team and a Director. I am classed as an 'Adviser' although I do the same job as the other two who are classed as Territory Managers. I report in to one of the other Territory Managers. In a nutshell she is lazy and does nothing.
There is an exhibition event which is held in 2018 after my contract ends. I met with my 'boss' on Monday for 3 hours to go through some objectives etc. These were then being emailed on.
Once they were emailed on she had also (sneaked in) given me a sales target for basically securing sponsorship for the whole exhibition event in 2018. She has given herself zero target to raise. None of this was mentioned during our three hour meeting on Monday.
The job was never advertised as a sales targeted role. If it had been I wouldn't have applied as the salary is pretty woeful and the required sales type are literally cold calling so grim. If I wanted to do sales I wouldn't have left my previous employer which I did on good terms.
I've taken issue with this and the Director has asked for a meeting on Thursday. I am ready to walk.
My boss also told me on Monday she had to fight to get me appointed as the other Territory Manager and the Director wanted somebody else. This of course has changed the dynamic of the office for me now as my (lazy) boss never goes to the office whereas I do a few times a week and have to sit on the same row of desks as the two people I now know didn't want me for the role.
So any advice on how to manage Thursday? I have basically said if I am expected to do sales against a target then this will have to be compensated as its fundamentally different to what is on the job description and it is for an event after my contract ends. They are saying its under 'any reasonable requirements'.
Thanks in advance.
randlemarcus said:
Accept the target if the responsibility is split 50/50 with your boss. Do nothing about it while looking for another job. Leave happy, knowing she is in a bad place later.
You are Mr Burns AICMFPMore seriously:
If the company doesn't want you then you don't want the job.
The only reason your manager wants you is because you enable her laziness by doing all the work!
Time to move on.
Edited by jet_noise on Saturday 5th August 19:44
Looks like you have little to lose and that you will likely be moving on. On Thursday tell the Director that as sales wasn't part of the role etc you want a salary increase and a bonus for reaching target. Be blunt say the sales was never mentioned in your meeting and that you've been given 100% of the target so you want 100% of the bonus. Tell the director she is lazy too with evidence - what's the worst that could happen?
I'm sure you'll slot in somewhere else - Good Luck!
I'm sure you'll slot in somewhere else - Good Luck!
You have no way to verify if the other two a) didn't like you at the time and b) don't like you now.
My advice is to stop thinking about it too much this week, forget about it for now and get on with work. Go to the meeting with an open mind. Report back.
My advice is to stop thinking about it too much this week, forget about it for now and get on with work. Go to the meeting with an open mind. Report back.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 6th August 01:11
Ok thanks for the replies. I'll see what happens on Thursday. I'm pretty certain if I bring up the issue of being told the other two didn't want me then she will simply deny it and it's my word against hers.
If things go really badly I'm ready to just leave Thursday otherwise, as others have pointed out there's no point in staying anyway so will start to look for a new role and do the minimum. This won't include cold calling.
If things go really badly I'm ready to just leave Thursday otherwise, as others have pointed out there's no point in staying anyway so will start to look for a new role and do the minimum. This won't include cold calling.
Thanks. Yes agree. It's a dead end really as unless I just lob the comment in as I'm leaving the premises 'well two of you didn't want me anyway' for devilment , there's not a lot to be gained by bringing it up. I'm sure she'd deny it . Logically if two out of three in the interview panel - one being the director didn't want me, I don't think I would have got the job! I think it was an attempt to curry favour knowing she was going to land me with the entire sales target a few days later.
Ok so the meeting has happened. My 'boss' didn't attend. Just me and two of the directors. Their stance was the budget hasn't been decided yet for the event so they cannot say what the fundraising target will be (although there will be one and I will be responsible for it all) so a figure shouldn't have been emailed to me. They wouldn't discuss salary for the reason above or commission.
They were quite insistent that this should all have been done by phone and not 'formalised'. I.e. Me just take the target and suck it up.
The meeting was quite tense and I understand that they were trying to 'side' with my boss. They said it was a completely open forum and I could say anything I wanted so I brought up about me not being wanted in preference to another candidate and for me it was a question of whether the situation was salvageable or not. This was met with total disbelief and that I must have misunderstood to conversation. I pointed out I hadn't misunderstood and my 'boss' was quite clear the only reason I had been appointed was because I was a direct report to her and that swung it.
This has resulted in them calling another meeting next Wednesday with my 'boss' in attendance. Of course she's going to deny it but really I am at a point where it was a no-win situation anyway. I cannot work for my boss and there is no way I would be able to not work with her as the team is so small. I'm not prepared to go cold call selling. So, that's the situation so far. I'm expecting to leave next Wednesday.
They were quite insistent that this should all have been done by phone and not 'formalised'. I.e. Me just take the target and suck it up.
The meeting was quite tense and I understand that they were trying to 'side' with my boss. They said it was a completely open forum and I could say anything I wanted so I brought up about me not being wanted in preference to another candidate and for me it was a question of whether the situation was salvageable or not. This was met with total disbelief and that I must have misunderstood to conversation. I pointed out I hadn't misunderstood and my 'boss' was quite clear the only reason I had been appointed was because I was a direct report to her and that swung it.
This has resulted in them calling another meeting next Wednesday with my 'boss' in attendance. Of course she's going to deny it but really I am at a point where it was a no-win situation anyway. I cannot work for my boss and there is no way I would be able to not work with her as the team is so small. I'm not prepared to go cold call selling. So, that's the situation so far. I'm expecting to leave next Wednesday.
Vron said:
Thanks but after only 4 months in the company I haven't got any weight to throw about.
Don't undervalue yourself. You may not have any weight in a legal sense but, if you walk, they will be back to square one and have to find a replacement.
They don't want to do that or there wouldn't be a second meeting.
Stick to your guns.
Without actually stating as fact that you have a recording of the original meeting with your 'boss' could you hint that you have and say to her just before the meeting that it would be a shame if she was caught out lying and that wouldn't go down at all well with the directors. You've got nothing to lose and maybe she will crumble and tell the truth. What have you got to lose? and you might get a little amusement watching her squirm.
Personally I would use the advice a PH'r has given above, accept all responsibility, pretend you are working toward your target, find another job and leave without doing f'ck all.
If you needed something to tie you over is there an opportunity to return to previous employment?
Good luck with whatever you decide
If you needed something to tie you over is there an opportunity to return to previous employment?
Good luck with whatever you decide
Thanks.
Even if I bluffed I think she would have some sort of excuse of being 'sick' or on some sort of medicaton so didn't know what she was saying (she is that type - high sickness rate, always something wrong etc) so wouldn't achieve anything.
I'm going to speak to my previous employer to see if there is anything but my old job is no more because I did the handover to my successor before I left !
Even if I bluffed I think she would have some sort of excuse of being 'sick' or on some sort of medicaton so didn't know what she was saying (she is that type - high sickness rate, always something wrong etc) so wouldn't achieve anything.
I'm going to speak to my previous employer to see if there is anything but my old job is no more because I did the handover to my successor before I left !
Your previous employer obviously thought well enough of you to pay you quadruple of what you are on now so they know you were good at selling. Might they have a different role without the selling and undoubted pressure?
When you do leave this role I hope you well and truly burn your bridges with a few home truths.
When you do leave this role I hope you well and truly burn your bridges with a few home truths.
I resigned today.
I wont go into the meeting detail verbatim but basically my 'boss' denied everything as I had expected and planned for.
I brought up a few issues that I had and she again denied everything until I produced irrefutable proof then she started to try to do a U-turn saying she 'thought' she had done X or Y instead of she had definitely dealt with X or Y.
At one point she started shouting 'I'll resign, I'll resign, I DON'T CARE'. It was then I interjected there was no need for her to resign as I was happy to go
.
The two directors were quite good. They said they didn't want me to resign and asked if I would take another job with them that was vacant (wasn't suitable) but I appreciated their gesture and politely declined.
I went into the meeting with an open mind with the plan of treading water until I got another job but things became apparent to me after about 5 minutes that it wasn't going to be possible to continue in my existing role under my 'boss'.
There was a Company meeting all day which we all agreed it wasn't suitable for me to sit in on under the circumstances, so I went home (was home at 9.30am) and am going back in tomorrow to start doing a handover to one of the Directors.
I got in touch with my previous General Manager last week and he said there should be 6 roles coming up that he was bidding for (budget for) this week and would take me back on so hopefully this will turn out OK. Back into 'proper' sales but I'll take the money and the Company is a great one.
Still looking around anyway just in case but have to do 1 month's notice in the present role. Maybe take a bit of time off anyway later this year.
I wont go into the meeting detail verbatim but basically my 'boss' denied everything as I had expected and planned for.
I brought up a few issues that I had and she again denied everything until I produced irrefutable proof then she started to try to do a U-turn saying she 'thought' she had done X or Y instead of she had definitely dealt with X or Y.
At one point she started shouting 'I'll resign, I'll resign, I DON'T CARE'. It was then I interjected there was no need for her to resign as I was happy to go
.
The two directors were quite good. They said they didn't want me to resign and asked if I would take another job with them that was vacant (wasn't suitable) but I appreciated their gesture and politely declined.
I went into the meeting with an open mind with the plan of treading water until I got another job but things became apparent to me after about 5 minutes that it wasn't going to be possible to continue in my existing role under my 'boss'.
There was a Company meeting all day which we all agreed it wasn't suitable for me to sit in on under the circumstances, so I went home (was home at 9.30am) and am going back in tomorrow to start doing a handover to one of the Directors.
I got in touch with my previous General Manager last week and he said there should be 6 roles coming up that he was bidding for (budget for) this week and would take me back on so hopefully this will turn out OK. Back into 'proper' sales but I'll take the money and the Company is a great one.
Still looking around anyway just in case but have to do 1 month's notice in the present role. Maybe take a bit of time off anyway later this year.
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