Tubeless clinchers on the Road?
Discussion
So mountain bike i'd not entertain anything else, however my road bike is still on tubes. Last time I did some research it seemed you either had tubs or tubes on road, people said the pressure were just to great on road bikes and it didn't work. Has this changed at all now, particularly with the fashion for wider road tyres? I have a Ribble Audax / Winter frame that's got loads of clearance for mudguards and was thinking of removing the mud guards and getting a new wide set of wheels and tyres for comfort and then wondered should I look at it being a tubeless setup?
Recently switched to tubeless Pro Ones on the road bike, having likewise experienced the benefits on the MTB and gravel/gnarmac/adventure-road bike.
Very hard to get the stiffer bead onto my carbon clinchers, but my thumbs have forgiven me now. Didn't feel an immediate improvement in ride over the GP4000Sii with latex tubes they replaced, but saying goodbye forever to pinch punctures and knowing the sealant should stop most others is nice.
That said I'm running the 23s (measure 25mm) for the aeroz but do have a pair of 28s (30mm) on another wheelset for rough back lanes that I've yet to try out, which may show more improvement over the Contis (which I had in both sizes too).
Very hard to get the stiffer bead onto my carbon clinchers, but my thumbs have forgiven me now. Didn't feel an immediate improvement in ride over the GP4000Sii with latex tubes they replaced, but saying goodbye forever to pinch punctures and knowing the sealant should stop most others is nice.
That said I'm running the 23s (measure 25mm) for the aeroz but do have a pair of 28s (30mm) on another wheelset for rough back lanes that I've yet to try out, which may show more improvement over the Contis (which I had in both sizes too).
I'm running Schwalbe Pro One tubleless 28mm on the winter bike, had GP4000 28mm (tubed) on before that. The Schwalbes actually size up slightly smaller than the Contis, but ride is very plush.
No problems mounting them, just used plenty of suds and then an Airshot for the first inflation.
No problems mounting them, just used plenty of suds and then an Airshot for the first inflation.
Interesting stuff so it's a definitely something that's on the cards. So I just had a look on Superstarcomponents and see they do a some tubeless clincher wheel sets, ARC CX Ray that have a 19mm internal width which should be good for wider rubber listed at £249 but really with Superstar that means £170 so not a bad price at all. Anyone any experience with those? I read they are the same rims as Hunts, with option of 22 MM depth or 31mm, I'd go 22mm as should be more supple and nicer ride. I guess next question is what's a good tubeless road tyre - the bike would only be used on road, basically round the IOW in a touring sort of capacity. I have always found in the past more than 2 hours on a road bike just too uncomfortable, hope these may change things.
I ran tubeless for 4 months on my CX bike - no pinch punctures is great and at first I loved tubeless.
Eventually I gave up on it , running tubeless was like having a permanent slow puncture which required me to pump up the tyres every other day. I also had 4 punctures caused by flints that did not seal.. instead the tyre simply pissed latex all over the bike and was a complete mess to sort out....
Adding an inner-tube to a tyre that has been filled with latex, in the rain, on a gravel track is not a pleasant experience; since switching back to tubes I have had 2 punctures in 8 months and fixing has been a lot easier. Once you get a puncture that does not seal you need to either stick with an inner-tube or buy a new tyre - tubes are way cheaper than tyres.
My riding buddies that also tried tubeless for gravel/cx riding have also switched back to tubes.
You may have better luck on the road (less flints and road tyres are a lot tougher than cx tyres).
For sealant I tried Stans and Cafe-Latex - I found Stans a lot better, Cafe Latex was crap and should be avoided at all costs - the tyres would weep cafe-latex when the bike was left in the garage, even with brand new tyres.
Overall I consider the experiment with tubeless an expensive waste of time and money!
Note: I didn't get round to trying Orange Sealant which I have heard is a lot better, but I even though I have an un-opened bottle in the garage I have no desire to give it a try.
Eventually I gave up on it , running tubeless was like having a permanent slow puncture which required me to pump up the tyres every other day. I also had 4 punctures caused by flints that did not seal.. instead the tyre simply pissed latex all over the bike and was a complete mess to sort out....
Adding an inner-tube to a tyre that has been filled with latex, in the rain, on a gravel track is not a pleasant experience; since switching back to tubes I have had 2 punctures in 8 months and fixing has been a lot easier. Once you get a puncture that does not seal you need to either stick with an inner-tube or buy a new tyre - tubes are way cheaper than tyres.
My riding buddies that also tried tubeless for gravel/cx riding have also switched back to tubes.
You may have better luck on the road (less flints and road tyres are a lot tougher than cx tyres).
For sealant I tried Stans and Cafe-Latex - I found Stans a lot better, Cafe Latex was crap and should be avoided at all costs - the tyres would weep cafe-latex when the bike was left in the garage, even with brand new tyres.
Overall I consider the experiment with tubeless an expensive waste of time and money!
Note: I didn't get round to trying Orange Sealant which I have heard is a lot better, but I even though I have an un-opened bottle in the garage I have no desire to give it a try.
A mate rides them , he swears by the comfort and how much better they are on tubes
However one friday before we were going on a big ride he noticed the tyre was compromised and the nearest shop to us that sold them was a 50 mile round trip by car
Another time on a really important ride, he had to drop out as on the morning he found he had a puncture that wasn't sealing , we were right by a bike shop, they didnt sell tubeless tyres though
The above put me off them tbh, just seems like hassle
However Im sure the above issues could be fixed by having spares at home, or spare tiube and tyre and switching back to them if you have issues
For me inner tubes and tyres have drawbacks but are really straightforward when issues occur
However one friday before we were going on a big ride he noticed the tyre was compromised and the nearest shop to us that sold them was a 50 mile round trip by car
Another time on a really important ride, he had to drop out as on the morning he found he had a puncture that wasn't sealing , we were right by a bike shop, they didnt sell tubeless tyres though
The above put me off them tbh, just seems like hassle
However Im sure the above issues could be fixed by having spares at home, or spare tiube and tyre and switching back to them if you have issues
For me inner tubes and tyres have drawbacks but are really straightforward when issues occur
I put a lot of One Pro's on customer rims now.... they buy them in and the have a go but can't fit them and then find they need an air compressor......lol.... mind you they are a great tyre. One did Paris-Roubaix sportive on them and was really pleased with the ride.....
I ride One's too but the tubed clincher, decent tyres
I ride One's too but the tubed clincher, decent tyres
Ok so not as clear cut "better" like it is with mountain bikes then. High pressures making the sealant piss out and not work was something I read when I last researched it a few years ago, I have a proper garage compressor so initial mounting up tyres isn't an issue. Maybe stans + glitter would be sure of small cuts sealing is an idea used with Schwalbe Pro One 28mm, what are other tyres people use tubeless as they are not cheap it seems.
Both me and the wife have recently bought new giant bikes with carbon rims, both came with tubeless tyres fitted.
Mine has been fine in the few rides I have done, can i notice a difference from tyres with tubes? not really.
She has been having issues with the rear tyre loosing pressure, its not a puncture but the pressure will drop to 30-40 psi within 24hrs. Its ok to ride but its a bit of a pain.
I don't think the tyre was/is seated properly on the rim.
Mine has been fine in the few rides I have done, can i notice a difference from tyres with tubes? not really.
She has been having issues with the rear tyre loosing pressure, its not a puncture but the pressure will drop to 30-40 psi within 24hrs. Its ok to ride but its a bit of a pain.
I don't think the tyre was/is seated properly on the rim.
SixPotBelly said:
TMM, in case your mate doesn't realise, you can always stick a tube in a tubeless tyre. I still carry them, and would recommend he does too.
Not had a puncture yet but bought some of these http://road.cc/content/review/183575-genuine-innov...
Carry them and a spare tube.
How have you found it putting a tube in a tubeless tyre? is it a nightmare to get the tyre back on the rim.
I've tried road tubeless with two different sets of tyres, Schwalbe Pro One and G-One Speed tyres.
I've got rid of the G-Ones and the Pro Ones will be running tubes as soon as I get my finger out and get some tubes.
I've used tubeless on MTB and CX tyres for a good few years now with no issues but for me, road tubeless is nothing like as good. I'm not sure if it's the higher pressures that the road set up runs but the sealant just doesn't seal in my experience. I've tried Stans, Stans Race and Orange Seal sealants and they're all as bad as each other. In one case, the puncture on the Pro One tyre was a small bit of flint which pushed through the tyre which I honestly wouldn't think would be enough to do a tube as well yet it beat a tubeless tyre!
I've also found that proper road tubeless tyres are very tight on the tubeless rims which can lead to some incredibly frustrating experiences trying to remove tyres to fit tubes with cold, wet hands.
I've got rid of the G-Ones and the Pro Ones will be running tubes as soon as I get my finger out and get some tubes.
I've used tubeless on MTB and CX tyres for a good few years now with no issues but for me, road tubeless is nothing like as good. I'm not sure if it's the higher pressures that the road set up runs but the sealant just doesn't seal in my experience. I've tried Stans, Stans Race and Orange Seal sealants and they're all as bad as each other. In one case, the puncture on the Pro One tyre was a small bit of flint which pushed through the tyre which I honestly wouldn't think would be enough to do a tube as well yet it beat a tubeless tyre!
I've also found that proper road tubeless tyres are very tight on the tubeless rims which can lead to some incredibly frustrating experiences trying to remove tyres to fit tubes with cold, wet hands.
ED209 said:
How have you found it putting a tube in a tubeless tyre? is it a nightmare to get the tyre back on the rim.
Not had the pleasure of trying yet on the 23s, but had to do it in a remote section of last year's Torino-Nice Rally when I tore a sidewall on one of the tubeless 38s on my gravel bike. Fortunately they came off (and went back on) a lot easier than when they were new. Not massively harder than removing and refitting a tubed clincher.I have been running with Tubeless for 2 years. Only issue to date was a wheel that went out of true due to significant rim wear, this resulted in the sidewall rubbing (I ditched the tubeless tyre but it hadn't failed).
The replacement tyre failed on a sidewall failure after about 120km, Malcolm at thecycleclinic replaced it FOC.
I have been using his IRC Tyres, I believe he is the only importer in the UK.
I have had a few occasions where there has been an obvious puncture (loud hiss) followed by the sound of clotting at the hole as I continued riding.
The IRC tyres appear to cut up less than my old GP4k's. There is a lot of talk about the issues fitting and living with them but I cannot wait for my repaired rear wheel to come back with a tubeless tyre on it.
I have been back on some borrowed wheels with GP4k's for about 1 month now.
Malcolm has written two good articles on Tubeless which should be read by those with and those considering Tubeless as it covers the Pro's vs Con's as well as an approach to repairing them.
See here https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news
I can confirm in the instance above where the side wall failed, I removed the tyre with latex gloves on the side of the road, put a boot in the tyre and a tube and was back on the road in 10mins (obviously not following Malcolm's advice at the time).
They have been fine for me doing 6000km per year on pretty crappy roads. Put it this way, all the wheels I buy in the future must be tubeless ready!
Edit - I have mounted new IRC tyres in the garage at home with only a standard track pump with no issues getting the tyre to seat on the rim. However, replacing a used tubeless tyre has seen me at the LBS using their compressor.
The replacement tyre failed on a sidewall failure after about 120km, Malcolm at thecycleclinic replaced it FOC.
I have been using his IRC Tyres, I believe he is the only importer in the UK.
I have had a few occasions where there has been an obvious puncture (loud hiss) followed by the sound of clotting at the hole as I continued riding.
The IRC tyres appear to cut up less than my old GP4k's. There is a lot of talk about the issues fitting and living with them but I cannot wait for my repaired rear wheel to come back with a tubeless tyre on it.
I have been back on some borrowed wheels with GP4k's for about 1 month now.
Malcolm has written two good articles on Tubeless which should be read by those with and those considering Tubeless as it covers the Pro's vs Con's as well as an approach to repairing them.
See here https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news
I can confirm in the instance above where the side wall failed, I removed the tyre with latex gloves on the side of the road, put a boot in the tyre and a tube and was back on the road in 10mins (obviously not following Malcolm's advice at the time).
They have been fine for me doing 6000km per year on pretty crappy roads. Put it this way, all the wheels I buy in the future must be tubeless ready!
Edit - I have mounted new IRC tyres in the garage at home with only a standard track pump with no issues getting the tyre to seat on the rim. However, replacing a used tubeless tyre has seen me at the LBS using their compressor.
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