What's your "perfect" family car?

[white_goodman]

Over the last five years since starting a family, I have owned two estate cars (Impreza WRX and Mercedes C-Class), an SUV (Grand Cherokee) and an MPV but I think that I am still yet to find the "perfect" family car. At the two extremes, the Subaru was the most fun but a little cramped and heavy on fuel, the Grand Cherokee was very comfortable and practical but horrendously expensive to run (4 litre straight six) but not the sharpest driving tool and the current MPV the best for comfort/space/practicality but not particularly fun to drive or easy on fuel...and well it's an MPV!

My wife has expressed a desire to get another Fiat 500 in the near future, as that's the car that she owned pre-children and most enjoyed driving (she has been driving the family bus for the last 5 years, apart from the Subaru, which was mine). I'll try to steer her in the direction of an Abarth for the fun factor!

So, that leaves me back in the family car, so what to get? Obviously, an RS6 Avant would be right up there, although it's a bit of a blunderbuss/sledgehammer and expensive to buy/run, so let's say a nominal budget of 20k (although I would consider a cheap lease deal). You could say the same for any RS Audi, M BMW and AMG Mercedes really.

I tend to favour smaller, sportier cars and could spend that theoretical 20k very easily on a Cooper S/Fiesta ST/M135i/M235i/Boxster/Cayman/GT86/BRZ but none of these are suitable family cars in terms of comfort, space for 2-3 children or decent load space. I wouldn't mind something like a Discovery 4/XC90/X5/newer Grand Cherokee but all these seem a bit excessive for a solo commute and wouldn't give me the most rewarding driving experience.

So, in terms of the criteria i.e. nominal 20k budget, space for 2-3 children, decent load space, reasonable running costs and a good steer, what would your perfect family car be?

[JamesRR]

I'd probably go for something like a 535d, or possibly 335d/335i if the idea of a big saloon wasn't appealing.

[Willy Nilly]

Any 5 door Golf sized car would be more than adequate, so probably a large SUV then.

[300bhp/ton]

Answering your thread title not your opening post.

[Sheepshanks]

white_goodman said:

Over the last five years since starting a family, I have owned two estate cars (Impreza WRX and Mercedes C-Class), an SUV (Grand Cherokee) and an MPV

Are you so ashamed of the MPV that you can't bring yourself to identify it?

[spreadsheet monkey]

white_goodman said:

So, in terms of the criteria i.e. nominal 20k budget, space for 2-3 children, decent load space, reasonable running costs and a good steer, what would your perfect family car be?

My perfect family car is the loaded 2013 Honda CR-V that I bought in 2015 for just under your 20k budget. Sacrificed the "good steer" element of your criteria, but the rest of it is great. Loads of rear seat space for my 3 and 6 year olds and their car seats, massive boot, cheap to run, elevated driving position, well-engineered and UK built.

To me, the CRV feels better made than than mainstream competitors like the Qashqai, Kuga and Tiguan. It is now on 56,000 miles and we have had no problems with it in the two years we have owned it. We plan to keep it for as long as possible.

Am well aware I could have an RS6 or S6 or M5 or 550i or whatever, but for £20k I'd have to go a lot older and higher mileage, and that's just too risky for me on a complex old German über-estate.

If I lived in the US, I'd definitely run a Ford Raptor like 300bhp/ton posted!

Edited by spreadsheet monkey on Wednesday 17th May 08:20

[300bhp/ton]

white_goodman said:

I tend to favour smaller, sportier cars

I wouldn't mind something like a Discovery 4/XC90/X5/newer Grand Cherokee but all these seem a bit excessive for a solo commute and wouldn't give me the most rewarding driving experience.

So, in terms of the criteria i.e. nominal 20k budget, space for 2-3 children, decent load space, reasonable running costs and a good steer, what would your perfect family car be?

The trouble here is, you aren't looking for just an ideal family car. You are wanting it to fulfil other niches and uses too, which are in many ways polar opposites to what will make a good family car with lots of load space.

This means there really isn't going to be anything ideal and you will have to compromise.


If we theorise for a bit.

Something like a BMW M5 is a good steer and will be enjoyable to drive. It's also big enough to have decent load space and to be used as a family vehicle. However, on the flip side it isn't small and sporty and will never feel like it is. It will likely have higher than average running costs and is going to be equally excessive for solo use. As it'll have a foot print not dissimilar to that of a Land Rover Discovery.


Now you could substitute the M5 for any other make of performance large saloon or estate car and you'll get the same result.


So having a vehicle of this size will be a compromise.



At the other end of the scale. You could compromise on the family and load scale of things. I don't know how often you need to transport 3 children or for how far. But you could likely get away with a much smaller vehicle. I don't know, but suspect like me you grew up in the 1980's? If so, the average family car back then was way smaller than a current Focus. So no reason why a modern day Focus sized vehicle couldn't be suitable. Or maybe smaller.



That all said and done, I'm still a big believer that 4x4's and SUV's make the best family vehicles. The large cabins are nice to travel in, lots of useful room and space. You see more sitting higher. The thing is, not all 4x4's are created equally. None, not even the sportiest of them will ever feel small and sporty. And tbh, none will ever get close to driving like an M5 does. The compromise here is in the different driving style and the different entertainment you can get.

Now there are some, such as the Jeep SRT-8 Grand Cherokee or the Supercharged Range Rover Sport, that are genuinely fast vehicles and are likely to be a giggle to drive on the pure grunt they offer. But they will never be sports cars or truly nimble. No, my thinking would lead me to looking for different thrills from such a vehicle. Something a little OTT can be fun and a statement every time you walk up to it and if it feels like a Tonka toy to drive, it'll make you smile, a lot. Just for very different reasons.

There are maybe not many vehicles in this category, but there are some.


The Land Rover Defender 110 is a prime example (we had one when growing up actually, it was brilliant!). Fundamentally and dynamically a Discovery 4 is a way better vehicle than the 110. But I'd be willing to wager that the 110 is a whole lot more fun to own and you'll end up with very fond memories of such a vehicle.

The Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (like I posted earlier). In many respects they are pretty sensible, 2.8 CRD diesel. Cheap to run, well specced. But they offer the same tactile senses that a Defender 110 does. And as illustrated by the photo I posted, you can do things like remove the roof. Seriously, what children and their friends wouldn't love going in such a vehicle?

Other vehicles of this ilk are the Toyota FJ Cruiser and the Hummer H3. Both about Disco 3 sized or slightly smaller. And both huge statements. However I'm willing to bet you'd smile to yourself each time you drove one. They are just that sort of vehicle.






But no matter what you pick, it will be a compromise.

[LM95]

You seem to be going through the same conundrum as me currently, my budget is slightly lower at around 15k but the vehicles available are similar.

Currently I have a Nissan X-Trail (4x4 & 7 seats) on a lease which ends in Feb, it’s been fine for the 3 children space wise on trips to France and the Lakes (300 –700 mile trips) and even the 1.6 Diesel is ok once you get used to it. Its not massively economical (45mpg) but it is well equipped and well built.
The previous car was the Citroen C4 Grand Scenic, the new model (at the time) looked cool for an MPV and actually still looks good. The space for the passengers was better than the X-Trail and the 1.6 Diesel was more frugal. Probably a better family car than the X-Trail if I am honest and both can be had for around 15k – 17k a year or so old and 10k mileage.

Both of those I Leased but I we lease 2 cars in our household and I want to buy something to be the family hack. Do I want to BUY one of the above, or a Ford Galaxy / S-Max, Vauxhall Zafira Tourer or the like. Not really! But these are probably the best cars for me the reality is that the 3 or so holidays that require the space dictate the cars requirement the other 300 odd days of the year it transports 2 - 4 people (teenager rarely wants to be involved these days!) not too far so it could be something far more interesting, the 3 that I keep looking at are;

Insignia Tourer VXR
Volvo V70 D5 R-Design
BMW 520d M-Sport Tourer

Now I would like to BUY one of these but they would be compromised when it really matters (holidays) and still probably too big for 90% of the time.

The chap earlier summed it up I think, there has to be compromise somewhere and our second car is a far more fun drive than these would be so I guess practicality has to come to the top of the list and entertainment and driving dynamics slip down the list once 3 children and what is the ideal family car is the question you are asking yourself. If it was not for the holidays though I would have the estate as 2/3 hour maximum journeys without holiday paraphernalia stuffed in every available space I am sure we could live with a large estate. But an MPV is probably the answer mainly due to having 3 individual seats for the kids – which is something even the biggest estate car loses out on.

[ZX10R NIN]

There's not a Perfect Family car there are just ones that suit your family best.

So for 20k you could have the following everyone a compromise in one way or another but all are good family cars:

Audi S4 (not the most focused car give Stasis a call & they can make it a more focused drive)

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...

Chris Harris with his Stasis Tuned S4

https://youtu.be/2KfMY96v_Gc

Insignia VXR 330bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Mondeo Titanium (with X Pack) 240bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

BMW 335i (take a visit to Birds with the change to make it more enjoyable) M Sport

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

[seadragon]

I have been through all the different types of car as have needed space for the wife and dogs and for loading up on holiday, but also to suit my needs for looks, speed, handling, sense of fun, etc.

I have ended up with a sporty VW R estate and couldn't be happier. Good all round car, flat loading bay, permanent 4wd, fun to drive, low enough roof to load bikes, easy to get in and out of etc.

other models in the VW estate range, but a great practical car

Edited by seadragon on Wednesday 17th May 13:09

[DKL]

This a discussion that you can apply to everything. Do you buy a house with another bedroom as it would be useful at Christmas.
Ultimately you have to fit the car to your needs "most" of the time. A car to carry 4 people and maximum holiday gear is a transit but you don't need it 99% of the time and it compromises all the other attributes.
I ended up splitting the budget and buying 2. It could have been a newish e350d estate but it was a bit dull so it ended up being an e55 estate for family trips and a fabia vrs estate for around and about. The e55 is fab but quite big and quite thirsty. The vrs is small (although big inside for a small car), cheap to tax and run, still under warranty but has a god awful gearbox. So you see still compromises.
Its the excuse I use for having 3 other cars too.
Realistically we will have to remerge the 2 cars but it will be an e63/cls 63/c63 estate rather than a n octavia or similar. The good bits outway the bad bits!

[LordHaveMurci]

Octavia VRS Estate has loads of room, older ones look pretty good, just about quick enough, sensible MPG & not completely dull to own/drive.

No, I don't own one but keep considering one for the OH when her Mk1 Focus finally dies...

[McAndy]

LordHaveMurci said:

Octavia VRS Estate has loads of room, older ones look pretty good, just about quick enough, sensible MPG & not completely dull to own/drive.

No, I don't own one but keep considering one for the OH when her Mk1 Focus finally dies...

I've had a Mk2 FL hatch for nearly a year now and, when it hasn't been having a new engine fitted at (mostly) Skoda's expense, it has been near as dammit "perfect".

Quick enough for today's roads and law enforcement; smaller than my old Mondeo outside so my wife's happier driving it; larger inside across the width of the rear bench so we can have a third adult in between the car seats - we couldn't in the Mondeo; >30 mpg, >40 on long runs (petrol); boot smaller than Mondeo but we haven't been found wanting yet - Focus Golf et al are incomparable. At this point in time, other than age, I see no reason for me to ever need to replace it.

Oh, and for those whom it worries, put badge snobbery aside as all who have deigned to comment in person have been complimentary.

[LimaDelta]

Subaru Outback. Loads of space, safe, plenty of toys and tech as standard that would add ££££s to a European marque, proper 4wd, great fun on the back roads, a bit left-field, classless, subtle.

Only downsides for me are that it could be a bit quicker, and I'd love a proper split tailgate on which to sit, like my previous D4. Also thirsty, but no worse than you'd expect of a 4wd CVT. Oh and the power tailgate is slow and a bit annoying.

I like it so much I'm thinking of picking up a second one! (3 litre flat six this time, 243bhp should liven it up a bit, shame they don't offer the big engine in the European market anymore)

[white_goodman]

Sheepshanks said:

Are you so ashamed of the MPV that you can't bring yourself to identify it?

Yeah, you've got me! I don't actually mind driving the MPV. The space is the real luxury and usually when I'm driving it, it's the weekend, we're just cruising or getting from A to B and I'm talking to my kids, so not really looking for a spirited drive. The extra seats aren't essential but have been useful on occasion. I just don't want to drive it as my daily and it's a bit juicy for something that isn't that fun to drive and has no style!

[white_goodman]

Willy Nilly said:

Any 5 door Golf sized car would be more than adequate, so probably a large SUV then.

I'm well aware of your contempt for SUVs but yes, largely I do agree with you. I would love a Golf GTI and I wish I could say job done but...in between the Jeep and the MPV we tried a small hatch (a Toyota Auris). Fine mostly day-to-day but it lacked some flexibility. The kids couldn't see out very well so didn't enjoy travelling in it and no AC in the back for hot weather and you had to bend down quite low to put them and strap them into their car seats which was a bit of a strain on the back. When the MIL visits, there isn't room for her to squeeze in between the two kid's child seats and you certainly wouldn't get another child seat in there. Also, load space is a bit limited and unlike with an estate/MPV/larger SUV, you can't just spontaneously pick up oversize items when you're out with the kids e.g. a piece of furniture or a new bike for the kids etc. I fully appreciate that an SUV isn't going to offer the driving enjoyment of a car though (although I haven't driven an X5 and I hear they drive well) and will be significantly more complicated and more expensive to run (my cousin owns a Disco 3 and it's not a cheap vehicle to run).

[Sheepshanks]

white_goodman said:

The kids couldn't see out very well so didn't enjoy travelling in it and no AC in the back for hot weather and you had to bend down quite low to put them and strap them into their car seats which was a bit of a strain on the back. When the MIL visits, there isn't room for her to squeeze in between the two kid's child seats and you certainly wouldn't get another child seat in there. Also, load space is a bit limited and unlike with an estate/MPV/larger SUV, you can't just spontaneously pick up oversize items when you're out with the kids e.g. a piece of furniture or a new bike for the kids etc. I fully appreciate that an SUV isn't going to offer the driving enjoyment of a car though (although I haven't driven an X5 and I hear they drive well) and will be significantly more complicated and more expensive to run (my cousin owns a Disco 3 and it's not a cheap vehicle to run).

I think you need an MPV.

Ford S-Max drives pretty well.

[Willy Nilly]

Sheepshanks said:

I think you need an MPV.

Ford S-Max drives pretty well.

These and the Galaxy must be brilliant family cars, I can't understand why they are not more popular and why anyone would buy an SUV instead.

To cart the family about, I'd be putting practicality ahead of driver involvement

[Tony33]

How times change, when we had our second child I finally accepted I had to get a bigger car then my Sunbeam Ti and bought a Peugeot 309. Felt like I had become a real family man with my five door car!

[spreadsheet monkey]

Willy Nilly said:

These and the Galaxy must be brilliant family cars, I can't understand why they are not more popular and why anyone would buy an SUV instead.

To cart the family about, I'd be putting practicality ahead of driver involvement

Never mind driver involvement, people carriers are uncool and mums prefer to drive 4x4s.

All of those X5 and Q7 owners are well aware that a Galaxy or V-class or whatever is more practical, but they just want a 4x4, however irrational that may be.