Bubble.....no..what bubble..
Discussion
Well with the current GT3 craziness that is going on at the moment, soon to be followed by similar hissy fits over the next GT4 and GT2 (by the same people who got a GT3) you wonder how long this current bubble can last, or are we even in a bubble? Is this as Rachel Maddow would say "our new reality, this is it and it's real"
Then i see this
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1158/Carre...
and this
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
or even this
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Don't get me wrong, all nice cars, two of them are even at respected dealers, one is even at a respected dealer who normally charge very fair prices (911V) but how on earth are any of those cars worth anything near those amounts outside of a collectors/speculators market? They are certainly not worth that as a car to drive.
For those wanting a Porsche to drive and enjoy this bubble is a real nuisance.
Surely there is a finite number of people out there willing to pay these sorts of prices, and it's not just Porsche, have a look a Fezza prices or even some BMW's of late?
Worlds gone mad I tell ya
Then i see this
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1158/Carre...
and this
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
or even this
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Don't get me wrong, all nice cars, two of them are even at respected dealers, one is even at a respected dealer who normally charge very fair prices (911V) but how on earth are any of those cars worth anything near those amounts outside of a collectors/speculators market? They are certainly not worth that as a car to drive.
For those wanting a Porsche to drive and enjoy this bubble is a real nuisance.
Surely there is a finite number of people out there willing to pay these sorts of prices, and it's not just Porsche, have a look a Fezza prices or even some BMW's of late?
Worlds gone mad I tell ya
Edited by Budflicker on Thursday 16th March 12:32
Mr Market (made up of willing buyers and sellers) sets the price that trades occur at. I do agree that the price of recently, not particularly admired cars has gone a bit silly. I also agree it will not last forever, but right now there are plenty of people who see certain marques and particular models as `money in the bank`. I think the limited cars like the GT3 in all guises will be the last to feel a correction - if ever.
In part this is down to the poor returns on money itself - negative real rates. Any asset is worthy of consideration when money itself has been abused and debased as we have seen over the last decade. Who thinks it is about to stop ? I do not, our beloved government is the biggest winner from negative real rates and the declining value of our GBP.
But I also remember the `better than money` status that Georgian furniture had in the mid 1980`s. Profits were capital gains tax free, and even better - there was a keen market for it abroad, should you ever need to sell, everybody knew prices only went one way and in the meantime you could enjoy the pleasure and status of ownership. Sound at all familiar?
Last week I was at a well established specialist antique dealers in central London. They had on show, an exquisite early Georgian `Tall Boy` of impeccable provenance. The dealer asked if I was interested, so I inquired the price. £12K he said, which I said was lower than I expected. Apparently they sold the exact same item in 1989 for £87k and he was delighted to show me the paperwork.
Could that happen to the car market - of course it could, given time.
In part this is down to the poor returns on money itself - negative real rates. Any asset is worthy of consideration when money itself has been abused and debased as we have seen over the last decade. Who thinks it is about to stop ? I do not, our beloved government is the biggest winner from negative real rates and the declining value of our GBP.
But I also remember the `better than money` status that Georgian furniture had in the mid 1980`s. Profits were capital gains tax free, and even better - there was a keen market for it abroad, should you ever need to sell, everybody knew prices only went one way and in the meantime you could enjoy the pleasure and status of ownership. Sound at all familiar?
Last week I was at a well established specialist antique dealers in central London. They had on show, an exquisite early Georgian `Tall Boy` of impeccable provenance. The dealer asked if I was interested, so I inquired the price. £12K he said, which I said was lower than I expected. Apparently they sold the exact same item in 1989 for £87k and he was delighted to show me the paperwork.
Could that happen to the car market - of course it could, given time.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/opinion/mark...
It's not just me that thinks it I'm glad to see.
Oh and to keep my rants to one thread,
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
WTF is an Authentic recreation ???????????
authentic
adjective
1.
of undisputed origin and not a copy; genuine
How on earth can that be advertised as an authentic fake!
It's not just me that thinks it I'm glad to see.
Oh and to keep my rants to one thread,
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
WTF is an Authentic recreation ???????????
authentic
adjective
1.
of undisputed origin and not a copy; genuine
How on earth can that be advertised as an authentic fake!
Edited by Budflicker on Thursday 16th March 15:09
It's a bubble alright.., it's happened before and it will happen again.., and bubbles always go pop.., but when is the question.. 89/90 was the last time the bottom fell out of the classic car market, in tandem with the property crash..
I'm watching closely with interest, I bought my 997.1 GT3 November 2009 at the bottom end of the last crash for a fair price, the same car is c+50% today, I can wait a while longer for the 991..!
While interest rates are on the floor at 0.25%, cash in the bank is earning nothing so it's fuelling equity markets, property, cars, antiques, art, wine..
The FTSE is over 7400, the SnP500 is priced at 26 times earnings, and the DOW is @ 21,000.., these just can not go on climbing without a correction, that day is coming, it's going to be ugly.., and I'm ready for when when it does..!
I'm watching closely with interest, I bought my 997.1 GT3 November 2009 at the bottom end of the last crash for a fair price, the same car is c+50% today, I can wait a while longer for the 991..!
While interest rates are on the floor at 0.25%, cash in the bank is earning nothing so it's fuelling equity markets, property, cars, antiques, art, wine..
The FTSE is over 7400, the SnP500 is priced at 26 times earnings, and the DOW is @ 21,000.., these just can not go on climbing without a correction, that day is coming, it's going to be ugly.., and I'm ready for when when it does..!
Edited by 1 Pheasant Plucker on Thursday 16th March 15:09
Cheib said:
Double no. And I own one! It's even got the plastic dash...
Ha,ha. I knew someone would mention the plastic dash, I noticed that as well!I agree though, I have a 997 GTS and £80k is madness....although if anyone would like to pay me £80k for mine I'll give you £250 cashback and I'll throw in my wife
1 Pheasant Plucker said:
It's a bubble alright.., it's happened before and it will happen again.., and bubbles always go pop.., but when is the question.. 89/90 was the last time the bottom fell out of the classic car market, in tandem with the property crash..
I'm watching closely with interest, I bought my 997.1 GT3 November 2009 at the bottom end of the last crash for a fair price, the same car is c+50% today, I can wait a while longer for the 991..!
While interest rates are on the floor at 0.25%, cash in the bank is earning nothing so it's fuelling equity markets, property, cars, antiques, art, wine..
The FTSE is over 7400, the SnP500 is priced at 26 times earnings, and the DOW is @ 21,000.., these just can not go on climbing without a correction, that day is coming, it's going to be ugly.., and I'm ready for when when it does..!
A step change my friend first and foremost, low interest rates for this long ? Never seen in history, the biggest economy in history growing and transforming in one generation. The only thing for sure is nobody knows what's goes to happen. Money is not worth much when they keep on printing it...wouldnt pay rediculos prices for gts but only because I like a car I can drive and not overly stress about ..I'm watching closely with interest, I bought my 997.1 GT3 November 2009 at the bottom end of the last crash for a fair price, the same car is c+50% today, I can wait a while longer for the 991..!
While interest rates are on the floor at 0.25%, cash in the bank is earning nothing so it's fuelling equity markets, property, cars, antiques, art, wine..
The FTSE is over 7400, the SnP500 is priced at 26 times earnings, and the DOW is @ 21,000.., these just can not go on climbing without a correction, that day is coming, it's going to be ugly.., and I'm ready for when when it does..!
Edited by 1 Pheasant Plucker on Thursday 16th March 15:09
Not so sure about the 7GTS and the tacky ss cabrio, but that 911V C3 is so of its time, and its rare, RHD, unmolested and looks lovely in white with tartan. And it has a recent rebuild by proper people. Worth every penny IMO, and represents why some of the bubble is better described as value adjustment. It would be a crime if cars like that were still 20k.
Surely bubble chat is more relevant to the RS cars, ex racers, 959s, CGT's etc not kite flying dealers with relatively mainstream fodder.
Surely bubble chat is more relevant to the RS cars, ex racers, 959s, CGT's etc not kite flying dealers with relatively mainstream fodder.
Johnny G Pipe said:
Not so sure about the 7GTS and the tacky ss cabrio, but that 911V C3 is so of its time, and its rare, RHD, unmolested and looks lovely in white with tartan. And it has a recent rebuild by proper people. Worth every penny IMO, and represents why some of the bubble is better described as value adjustment. It would be a crime if cars like that were still 20k.
Surely bubble chat is more relevant to the RS cars, ex racers, 959s, CGT's etc not kite flying dealers with relatively mainstream fodder.
Clearly someone thought it was worth £95k, it's sold in a day...amazing to me that is, I'm flabergastedSurely bubble chat is more relevant to the RS cars, ex racers, 959s, CGT's etc not kite flying dealers with relatively mainstream fodder.
Johnny G Pipe said:
Ha, yes its telling that it sold and the GTS is still dancing in the wind LOL.
But I think it also shows that 911V know their onions. That C3 is a proper car, just look at the interior..and it even still has its 5 blade fan. One for the connoisseur..
The GTS will be there for months at that price. If you wanted to pay £80k for a 997 GTS I think you could have the choice of any in the country. But I think it also shows that 911V know their onions. That C3 is a proper car, just look at the interior..and it even still has its 5 blade fan. One for the connoisseur..
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