Discussion
Having cleverly just married a girl who delights in catering to my every whim, i thought i might ask for advice regarding a car I've seen for sale in "Classic and Sportscar".
365GTB/4 BB, marrone (mmm!)There doesn't appear to be any sign of a FSH (they've just spent 11k including belts), but then it's only £34k - seems a good 10k less than other BB's i've seen.
Is this the car to have, to keep forever? I'm thinking it is. The 512's no better, is it?
The figures in the back of the mag say it'll only do c. 160mph, and 0-60 in over 7 secs. That's got to be rubbish, no?
I'm scared about the maintenance. In fact, all of it scares me silly but a Testarossa drove past in Paris the other day and sounded just fabulous. This car's got about the same motor, is much better looking, rarer, and I've loved it since birth.
Obviously I'll be speaking to the vendor about finer details, but any comments, guidance, constuctive criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
365GTB/4 BB, marrone (mmm!)There doesn't appear to be any sign of a FSH (they've just spent 11k including belts), but then it's only £34k - seems a good 10k less than other BB's i've seen.
Is this the car to have, to keep forever? I'm thinking it is. The 512's no better, is it?
The figures in the back of the mag say it'll only do c. 160mph, and 0-60 in over 7 secs. That's got to be rubbish, no?
I'm scared about the maintenance. In fact, all of it scares me silly but a Testarossa drove past in Paris the other day and sounded just fabulous. This car's got about the same motor, is much better looking, rarer, and I've loved it since birth.
Obviously I'll be speaking to the vendor about finer details, but any comments, guidance, constuctive criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Those figures are bullshite... - it's almost exactly as fast the Daytona - which means 0-60mph in around 5.5sec - I think that's because
a) this car directly succeeded the Daytona and
b) the engine is derivative of the great Daytona V12 (the boxer is still a V12 except the V angle is 180 degrees.)
The 365GT4/BB is the best of the boxer line IMO - the later fuel injected models lack the carburated roar of the 365 (trust me - I've heard one - and bloody hell) and are actually slower and lumpier to drive. (early FI sucked BIGTIME).
The reason the car probably hasn't had a FFSH is because this is probably the most maintenance-intensive Ferrari of the lot. Routine service is engine-out so..... 16 hours labour BEFORE any service actually begins to get the engine out..... 16 X £110 hourly labour rate...... = F
K ME - so don't talk about MAJOR services.
Also - from what I know- this is a proper MANS car - it take's no prisoners - gearchange, clutch - require gym-work and the engine is mounted ABOVE the gearbox so on-limit handling is not for the faint of heart - (note - this problem was NOT fixed in the TR either until the 512 came along).
If you want a matcho mans car (and I DO) get it - it's a proper old school Ferrari and I personally have ALWAYS loved it. Just too gutless to buy.
>> Edited by manu on Monday 2nd September 12:38
a) this car directly succeeded the Daytona and
b) the engine is derivative of the great Daytona V12 (the boxer is still a V12 except the V angle is 180 degrees.)
The 365GT4/BB is the best of the boxer line IMO - the later fuel injected models lack the carburated roar of the 365 (trust me - I've heard one - and bloody hell) and are actually slower and lumpier to drive. (early FI sucked BIGTIME).
The reason the car probably hasn't had a FFSH is because this is probably the most maintenance-intensive Ferrari of the lot. Routine service is engine-out so..... 16 hours labour BEFORE any service actually begins to get the engine out..... 16 X £110 hourly labour rate...... = F
K ME - so don't talk about MAJOR services. Also - from what I know- this is a proper MANS car - it take's no prisoners - gearchange, clutch - require gym-work and the engine is mounted ABOVE the gearbox so on-limit handling is not for the faint of heart - (note - this problem was NOT fixed in the TR either until the 512 came along).
If you want a matcho mans car (and I DO) get it - it's a proper old school Ferrari and I personally have ALWAYS loved it. Just too gutless to buy.
>> Edited by manu on Monday 2nd September 12:38
From what I've heard, Manu is right about the controls being HEAVY, lovely to drive over 60mph but a bitch in town, Check out servicing costs, my Ferrari mechanic charges £45 per hour, but there is no standard "book Times" for jobs and my last Horse (348) needed the engine out to get to most of the important service items, £1600 Labour before the service can be carried out. Good luck, Ferrari ownership is very rewarding.
G.
G.
Manu is spot on in his 'verdict'. I have driven most Ferraris from the 60s-80s and the 365BB remains a favourite. Manners are not of todays level but as Manu said it is a man's car and not for the faint-hearted. Great car but expensive to maintain. I was lucky enough to work at a Ferrari garage so got to drive them with no costs involved 
I've always liked these too. A year or two ago one of the mags (it may have been classic and sportscar) did a front cover article on one. I think the car they drove is the one that Kent High Performace currently have for sale at 33k. Although I'd hesitate to recommend any car dealers, I've used KHPC (bought, sold and serviced a 328 through them) and I have to say I was impressed.
When I talked to them about a BB they said to budget around 2.5k a year for maintainence (thats up to 3k miles per year), averaged over 3 years.
I hope I got the link right here...
[url]www.theferraricentre.co.uk[/url]
When I talked to them about a BB they said to budget around 2.5k a year for maintainence (thats up to 3k miles per year), averaged over 3 years.
I hope I got the link right here...
[url]www.theferraricentre.co.uk[/url]
Only just seen this thread. Can well understand the appeal of this car, from the outside anyway. If the thought of high maintenance costs frightens you then I suspect you may not enjoy owning it. I've seen this happen before- you get so scared something will go wrong with it you'll leave it in the garage.
There is something to be said for going for an older car- depreciation, in particular the lack of it. Apart from the going to the factory, the last couple of weeks has been a total ct so I've been leafing with intent through Top Marques. On the way to 'P' saw the current market price of the cars I have and, well feck me. Even though it's pretty much spot on what I expected it still comes as a shock to see how much prices have come down. Conversely, older cars like the 308, 328 etc. are pretty stable. My neighbour has had his 328 for about 8 years & it's worth more now than when he bought it. Couple that with running costs of about a grand a year I'm told, this is a pretty sensible place to start. And you can feel pretty smug in the knowledge that your car could cost less to buy than owners of newer cars will lose in depreciation!
He said through gritted teeth....
There is something to be said for going for an older car- depreciation, in particular the lack of it. Apart from the going to the factory, the last couple of weeks has been a total c
t so I've been leafing with intent through Top Marques. On the way to 'P' saw the current market price of the cars I have and, well feck me. Even though it's pretty much spot on what I expected it still comes as a shock to see how much prices have come down. Conversely, older cars like the 308, 328 etc. are pretty stable. My neighbour has had his 328 for about 8 years & it's worth more now than when he bought it. Couple that with running costs of about a grand a year I'm told, this is a pretty sensible place to start. And you can feel pretty smug in the knowledge that your car could cost less to buy than owners of newer cars will lose in depreciation! He said through gritted teeth....
what are the going prices for 328GTS or GTBs ?
I'm coming to work in London in a couple of years and would like to get a 328 for the duration of stay and then take home.
Have done this before with a BMW 7 series and blew it big time with customs and resale in Oz but it's different with the 328 as I have no intention of selling it (sad person when it comes to Ferraris really
)
If 355s are reasonable by then that may be the better way to go
I'm coming to work in London in a couple of years and would like to get a 328 for the duration of stay and then take home.
Have done this before with a BMW 7 series and blew it big time with customs and resale in Oz but it's different with the 328 as I have no intention of selling it (sad person when it comes to Ferraris really
) If 355s are reasonable by then that may be the better way to go
Kevin, forget the wonga and just look at what you've got!
I saw a 456 yesterday and suffered the same thing that usually happens when I see something this staggeringly wondrous to behold.
Five hours later I walked on, my shirt front testament to much congealed spittal, involuntarily dribbled from me gawping mush and my day in ruins that nothing Enzonic awaited chez moi.
Damn it, Muttley.
I saw a 456 yesterday and suffered the same thing that usually happens when I see something this staggeringly wondrous to behold.
Five hours later I walked on, my shirt front testament to much congealed spittal, involuntarily dribbled from me gawping mush and my day in ruins that nothing Enzonic awaited chez moi.
Damn it, Muttley.
ok, so I am the lucky wife of castex and I am so very keen to cater to his every whim - and mine too - so, I want the truth.....is the steering on a BB too heavy to handle? (I am not a female rugby player) why is it a man's car? can't enthusiasm for the drive take anyone through all the same steps of enjoyment?
Also, what do we need to really look out for when we buy?
We really appreciate all your advice everyone, we love you, yes we do...
It is TYPICALLY a "mans" car - but in certian exceptional circumstances (like a totally cool wife) it can also be "Ferrari-enthusiast BABES" car too...
Dry steering in ANY unassisted car is bad. The faster you go, the nicer (easier) the steering will be.
Warranty (unlikely on a BB) but may be available depending on seller- but mechanical breakdown insurance is possible on every car.... Think about it - pricey but the piece of mind is important especially on a "proper" 12 cylinder beast like the BB.
Dry steering in ANY unassisted car is bad. The faster you go, the nicer (easier) the steering will be.
Warranty (unlikely on a BB) but may be available depending on seller- but mechanical breakdown insurance is possible on every car.... Think about it - pricey but the piece of mind is important especially on a "proper" 12 cylinder beast like the BB.
Ok, here's my bit. I am biased because my 512BB is the one at KHPC for just under 40k. But I repeat here that I will sell it trade/privately for much less than they are asking for their warrantied sale.
As a mechanic, I've maintained, driven and restored Boxers for years. The two most important things are condition and history. One without the other is fine, but both in top shape and you're laughing. You can spend squillions if you're unlucky. But if you can do a few basic jobs you can also save squillions, and enjoy a thoroughbred affordably.
The 365's have a wet sump lubrication system, which can suffer from surge and temperature problems if pushed hard with modern tyres. The 512 is dry sumped and has no troubles. The 365 has a single plate, cable operated clutch, which is VERY heavy and prone to wear unlike any other car on the planet! About 3000 miles is the norm, more if you're careful but not much and you could lunch it in ONE silly traffic light moment! The 512 is twin plate, hydraulic and very light. As long as you don't blip the throttle when manoevering it'll last 10,000 miles or more.
The 365 has no front spoiler and get's very floaty at the front over 120mph.
The 365 has narrower rear wheels and also narrow track, they feel substantially more loose on turn in or direction change than a 512. They feel like they're gonna bite you. As with any car you can tune them a bit, but it's all done for you on a 512.
On paper the 365 has more power, but on the road, the extra torque of the 512 leaves the 365 for dead.
I should point out that the 512BBi engine is a dog in my opinion and performs accordingly, although they are a bit better on fuel....but if that motivates you, any BB ain't for you!!
drop me an email for more chat, and I'll try to convince you more that buying my 512BB is the way to go. I'm staying in Oz and it's just sitting there at KHPC waiting to be used!
Oh yes, the steering is critical to keep the front tyre pressures up to 36 minimum, and if you keep rolling while you turn it, rather than yanking on it stationary, it is manageble. But basically they are a bit on the heavy side.....but thats what gives such great feedback and communication......honestly...
>> Edited by 360N-GT on Monday 14th October 11:56
As a mechanic, I've maintained, driven and restored Boxers for years. The two most important things are condition and history. One without the other is fine, but both in top shape and you're laughing. You can spend squillions if you're unlucky. But if you can do a few basic jobs you can also save squillions, and enjoy a thoroughbred affordably.
The 365's have a wet sump lubrication system, which can suffer from surge and temperature problems if pushed hard with modern tyres. The 512 is dry sumped and has no troubles. The 365 has a single plate, cable operated clutch, which is VERY heavy and prone to wear unlike any other car on the planet! About 3000 miles is the norm, more if you're careful but not much and you could lunch it in ONE silly traffic light moment! The 512 is twin plate, hydraulic and very light. As long as you don't blip the throttle when manoevering it'll last 10,000 miles or more.
The 365 has no front spoiler and get's very floaty at the front over 120mph.
The 365 has narrower rear wheels and also narrow track, they feel substantially more loose on turn in or direction change than a 512. They feel like they're gonna bite you. As with any car you can tune them a bit, but it's all done for you on a 512.
On paper the 365 has more power, but on the road, the extra torque of the 512 leaves the 365 for dead.
I should point out that the 512BBi engine is a dog in my opinion and performs accordingly, although they are a bit better on fuel....but if that motivates you, any BB ain't for you!!
drop me an email for more chat, and I'll try to convince you more that buying my 512BB is the way to go. I'm staying in Oz and it's just sitting there at KHPC waiting to be used!
Oh yes, the steering is critical to keep the front tyre pressures up to 36 minimum, and if you keep rolling while you turn it, rather than yanking on it stationary, it is manageble. But basically they are a bit on the heavy side.....but thats what gives such great feedback and communication......honestly...
>> Edited by 360N-GT on Monday 14th October 11:56
360N-GT said: Ok, here's my bit. I am biased because my 512BB is the one at KHPC for just under 40k. But I repeat here that I will sell it trade/privately for much less than they are asking for their warrantied sale.
As a mechanic, I've maintained, driven and restored Boxers for years. The two most important things are condition and history. One without the other is fine, but both in top shape and you're laughing. You can spend squillions if you're unlucky. But if you can do a few basic jobs you can also save squillions, and enjoy a thoroughbred affordably.
The 365's have a wet sump lubrication system, which can suffer from surge and temperature problems if pushed hard with modern tyres. The 512 is dry sumped and has no troubles. The 365 has a single plate, cable operated clutch, which is VERY heavy and prone to wear unlike any other car on the planet! About 3000 miles is the norm, more if you're careful but not much and you could lunch it in ONE silly traffic light moment! The 512 is twin plate, hydraulic and very light. As long as you don't blip the throttle when manoevering it'll last 10,000 miles or more.
The 365 has no front spoiler and get's very floaty at the front over 120mph.
The 365 has narrower rear wheels and also narrow track, they feel substantially more loose on turn in or direction change than a 512. They feel like they're gonna bite you. As with any car you can tune them a bit, but it's all done for you on a 512.
On paper the 365 has more power, but on the road, the extra torque of the 512 leaves the 365 for dead.
I should point out that the 512BBi engine is a dog in my opinion and performs accordingly, although they are a bit better on fuel....but if that motivates you, any BB ain't for you!!
drop me an email for more chat, and I'll try to convince you more that buying my 512BB is the way to go. I'm staying in Oz and it's just sitting there at KHPC waiting to be used!
You've sold it to me mate!....but I can't afford it at the moment,due to lack of funds.
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff