BMW E92 330i N53 warm engine whine
Discussion
Hi all,
My BMW E92 330i N53 with 156,000 miles makes a high pitched whine from the engine bay when engine is warm. It's heard at different engine speeds, at idle and during warm startup. It occurs with AC / fan on or off, and with the clutch up or down.
Here's a recording of the noise - https://youtu.be/k05A_gyq3qE. This is a warm start with the engine out of gear and the clutch up. The engine runs rough from 26 seconds onwards, as if it is about to stall. After finishing the recording I blipped the throttle and let the engine return to idle, the noise went away. When it is heard when moving the noise only lasts for ~10 seconds or so, there's no specific engine / road speed which triggers it. Warm startups as in this video are a favourite for triggering it. Note that the noise doesn't occur during a journey when idling (e.g. at traffic lights), only for a few seconds when moving or if starting the car when the engine is warm.
This noise has persisted between oil and filter changes. It's been to two specialists, one thinks the CCV is knackered and the other thinks it might be the CCV but doesn't think that immediate attention is required. No fault codes are logged and seeing as this is the N53 engine (joy!) this issue (and the rough running) are separate to the cold start issues which plague the injectors.
Any pointers would be welcome. The noise and rough running at warm idle, and the fact the noise is getting more frequent, make me think TLC is needed but it would be good to know before something expensive fails without requiring an equally expensive investigatory teardown. Thanks!
My BMW E92 330i N53 with 156,000 miles makes a high pitched whine from the engine bay when engine is warm. It's heard at different engine speeds, at idle and during warm startup. It occurs with AC / fan on or off, and with the clutch up or down.
Here's a recording of the noise - https://youtu.be/k05A_gyq3qE. This is a warm start with the engine out of gear and the clutch up. The engine runs rough from 26 seconds onwards, as if it is about to stall. After finishing the recording I blipped the throttle and let the engine return to idle, the noise went away. When it is heard when moving the noise only lasts for ~10 seconds or so, there's no specific engine / road speed which triggers it. Warm startups as in this video are a favourite for triggering it. Note that the noise doesn't occur during a journey when idling (e.g. at traffic lights), only for a few seconds when moving or if starting the car when the engine is warm.
This noise has persisted between oil and filter changes. It's been to two specialists, one thinks the CCV is knackered and the other thinks it might be the CCV but doesn't think that immediate attention is required. No fault codes are logged and seeing as this is the N53 engine (joy!) this issue (and the rough running) are separate to the cold start issues which plague the injectors.
Any pointers would be welcome. The noise and rough running at warm idle, and the fact the noise is getting more frequent, make me think TLC is needed but it would be good to know before something expensive fails without requiring an equally expensive investigatory teardown. Thanks!
when you did the filter change was the oil filter in one piece. because I had similar noise and had to replace the oil filter cap.
https://youtu.be/HBAE04FPkfk
https://youtu.be/HBAE04FPkfk
Fixed! I ordered this, a replacement membrane and cap. The membrane can be purchased standalone from bersa-tools.ru, or from here. vanos-bmw.com also sell the aluminium cap here.
Plenty of sellers sell a complete plastic cap / membrane for the N53, it does not fit the N53 even though it is listed as such. The N53 requires a full width membrane and a flat cap on the underside, the plastic caps have a screw type fitting which does not fit into the inner area of the CCV breather valve on the N53. The membranes are sealed into the plastic cap which means they cannot be transferred to the original cap, they are no good for the N53. It was obvious as soon as I removed the old cap but prior to removal (and I didn't want to remove the cap until I had the new one ready) it was guesswork. The support from vanos-bmw.com was excellent, I bought the original plastic cap from them and they refunded me after realising it was not N53 compatible (and have revised their listing) and pointed me in the right direction. The parts above are what you need, either seller will sort you out and I've bought parts from both.
You will need the membrane and your existing / a replacement aluminium cap. The advantage of the aluminium cap is that it becomes reusable if the membrane fails again and it should prolong membrane lifespan by dissipating heat more effectively. Personally I think the old cap could be salvaged and you'd get away with the membrane replacement in isolation, although the aluminium cap is more expensive I'm glad I opted for it. Reusing the old cap would require filing away the raised bits on the inside and good fortune when you're trying to remove it from the cover. It's a gamble that might leave you without a working cap. Treat yourself and buy the aluminium cap!
Here are a few photos of the repair, it was done in two parts as I ordered a plastic N53 cap which did not fit but served as a temporary repair until the flat aluminium N53 cap arrived today. The poor fit of the plastic cap (after I sawed off the extra material!) meant there was an air leak and a whine. Seemingly only available from Russia both took 9 days to arrive after ordering, door to door. The repair is easy enough, the original cap needed warming with a hairdryer to soften the glue and then hammer to tap a screwdriver head into it. Encouragingly the old membrane was completely torn and definitely in need of replacement. Although the old cap came off cleanly the retaining clips on the valve cover broke off. To ensure the new cap has a good seal without the retaining clips I've sealed the cap using liquid gasket (silicone based) which will play nicely with the membrane material and remain flexible should I need to remove / replace the membrane in the future. With the aluminium cap and new membrane there's no whine from the engine and the oil filler cap vacuum is reduced.
FYI my membrane started to tear around 140,000 miles leading to the whine / whistle noise and failed completely a few weeks ago (155,000 miles) which meant I had surging power and a terrible idle. If your car is already whining chances are you've got ~10,000 miles left before the membrane splits completely.
I do not know why BMW refuse to sell the membrane separately. I was quoted £550 for a valve cover + fitting! Changing the valve cover in full requires expensive parts and a lot more effort to fit. I suspect as these cars get older the Russian parts will become easier to get hold of on eBay, the best I could find was the useless plastic cap variant from China and the USA. Only the Russian websites sell the aluminium caps and standalone membranes. Even with having to fit this twice I'm still less than two hours in, I'm a dab hand at removing the engine cover and other bits due to N53 injector fun but there is nothing difficult about this job. I finished this off today in storm Doris and still had no issues.
I hope this helps other N53 owners. I'll post a long term update on oil consumption as I've been using oil (no visible smoke, no leaks) and this is a known cause of it.
Original cap removed, tear in membrane visible.
Cap removed and the revised N53 innards on show, this is why the plastic caps do not fit.
Tear in the original membrane visible.
Original cap on the left, incorrect plastic cap in the middle (after I sawed off the extra material!), and the aluminium cap on the right. Notice the difference between the height of the incorrect plastic cap and aluminium caps, particularly the level for where the cap would sit.
New cap installed.
Plenty of sellers sell a complete plastic cap / membrane for the N53, it does not fit the N53 even though it is listed as such. The N53 requires a full width membrane and a flat cap on the underside, the plastic caps have a screw type fitting which does not fit into the inner area of the CCV breather valve on the N53. The membranes are sealed into the plastic cap which means they cannot be transferred to the original cap, they are no good for the N53. It was obvious as soon as I removed the old cap but prior to removal (and I didn't want to remove the cap until I had the new one ready) it was guesswork. The support from vanos-bmw.com was excellent, I bought the original plastic cap from them and they refunded me after realising it was not N53 compatible (and have revised their listing) and pointed me in the right direction. The parts above are what you need, either seller will sort you out and I've bought parts from both.
You will need the membrane and your existing / a replacement aluminium cap. The advantage of the aluminium cap is that it becomes reusable if the membrane fails again and it should prolong membrane lifespan by dissipating heat more effectively. Personally I think the old cap could be salvaged and you'd get away with the membrane replacement in isolation, although the aluminium cap is more expensive I'm glad I opted for it. Reusing the old cap would require filing away the raised bits on the inside and good fortune when you're trying to remove it from the cover. It's a gamble that might leave you without a working cap. Treat yourself and buy the aluminium cap!
Here are a few photos of the repair, it was done in two parts as I ordered a plastic N53 cap which did not fit but served as a temporary repair until the flat aluminium N53 cap arrived today. The poor fit of the plastic cap (after I sawed off the extra material!) meant there was an air leak and a whine. Seemingly only available from Russia both took 9 days to arrive after ordering, door to door. The repair is easy enough, the original cap needed warming with a hairdryer to soften the glue and then hammer to tap a screwdriver head into it. Encouragingly the old membrane was completely torn and definitely in need of replacement. Although the old cap came off cleanly the retaining clips on the valve cover broke off. To ensure the new cap has a good seal without the retaining clips I've sealed the cap using liquid gasket (silicone based) which will play nicely with the membrane material and remain flexible should I need to remove / replace the membrane in the future. With the aluminium cap and new membrane there's no whine from the engine and the oil filler cap vacuum is reduced.
FYI my membrane started to tear around 140,000 miles leading to the whine / whistle noise and failed completely a few weeks ago (155,000 miles) which meant I had surging power and a terrible idle. If your car is already whining chances are you've got ~10,000 miles left before the membrane splits completely.
I do not know why BMW refuse to sell the membrane separately. I was quoted £550 for a valve cover + fitting! Changing the valve cover in full requires expensive parts and a lot more effort to fit. I suspect as these cars get older the Russian parts will become easier to get hold of on eBay, the best I could find was the useless plastic cap variant from China and the USA. Only the Russian websites sell the aluminium caps and standalone membranes. Even with having to fit this twice I'm still less than two hours in, I'm a dab hand at removing the engine cover and other bits due to N53 injector fun but there is nothing difficult about this job. I finished this off today in storm Doris and still had no issues.
I hope this helps other N53 owners. I'll post a long term update on oil consumption as I've been using oil (no visible smoke, no leaks) and this is a known cause of it.
Original cap removed, tear in membrane visible.
Cap removed and the revised N53 innards on show, this is why the plastic caps do not fit.
Tear in the original membrane visible.
Original cap on the left, incorrect plastic cap in the middle (after I sawed off the extra material!), and the aluminium cap on the right. Notice the difference between the height of the incorrect plastic cap and aluminium caps, particularly the level for where the cap would sit.
New cap installed.
SoupAnxiety said:
An update for anybody who stumbles upon this thread - replacing the CCV reduced oil consumption from around 1 litre / 1,000 miles to around 1 litre / 3,000 miles, which is OK with me considering mileage (162k) and driving style ("making progress").
Hi, your guide is amazing!Anyway i just want to ask i have exactly same problem as you had.
I have bmw e60 530i N53 engine, is those parts which you shared will fit to my car?
Sorry probably stupid question, but i want to be sure.
Yep, first link - http://bersa-tools.ru/goods/Remkomplekt-klapannoj-...
Get this, not the cheaper plastic cap. You'll need some liquid gasket to form a seal without glue as mentioned. Mine is still going strong now.
Get this, not the cheaper plastic cap. You'll need some liquid gasket to form a seal without glue as mentioned. Mine is still going strong now.
Good, today i will order!
However sound from engine in my case is not so strong as in yours,anyway probably because yours was in very bad condition, but just to clear things out, i made small video, can you check and confirm this same issue?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_rx9jXrxX4
However sound from engine in my case is not so strong as in yours,anyway probably because yours was in very bad condition, but just to clear things out, i made small video, can you check and confirm this same issue?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_rx9jXrxX4
SPaul said:
Good, today i will order!
However sound from engine in my case is not so strong as in yours,anyway probably because yours was in very bad condition, but just to clear things out, i made small video, can you check and confirm this same issue?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_rx9jXrxX4
Judging by the vacuum on the cap it's the same issue. The noise wasn't present at all times on mine (warm startup was the easiest way to trigger it) but the vacuum was always strong.However sound from engine in my case is not so strong as in yours,anyway probably because yours was in very bad condition, but just to clear things out, i made small video, can you check and confirm this same issue?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_rx9jXrxX4
Quick update!
CCV issue sorted!
Membrane was broken very badly.
Bought membrane and aliuminium cap from vanos-bmw.com, replaced, sealed with liquid gasket seal. also cleaned MAF sensor, cleared mixture control messaged with obd scanner, started engine, all back to normal! took me couple hours(no rush)
However i have another code keep apearing for long time now, it`s: 30e9 Nitrogen-oxide catalytic converter, ageing.
Clear enough that it will be related to o2 sensors or catalytic converter have leak, question is how to test sensors? i think there is 4 o2 sensors.
CCV issue sorted!
Membrane was broken very badly.
Bought membrane and aliuminium cap from vanos-bmw.com, replaced, sealed with liquid gasket seal. also cleaned MAF sensor, cleared mixture control messaged with obd scanner, started engine, all back to normal! took me couple hours(no rush)
However i have another code keep apearing for long time now, it`s: 30e9 Nitrogen-oxide catalytic converter, ageing.
Clear enough that it will be related to o2 sensors or catalytic converter have leak, question is how to test sensors? i think there is 4 o2 sensors.
Hello everyone,
first of thanks
Soup anxietey for the great guide and the pics, thanks spaul for the info!
I have the same problem with my n53 e60 , ordererd the kit for bmw vanos and i will be able to redeem it today from the post.
i just wanted to know, how were your problems since then? any new problems ccv still running smooth?
Do i have to glue the aluminium cup aswell ?
thanks!
first of thanks
Soup anxietey for the great guide and the pics, thanks spaul for the info!
I have the same problem with my n53 e60 , ordererd the kit for bmw vanos and i will be able to redeem it today from the post.
i just wanted to know, how were your problems since then? any new problems ccv still running smooth?
Do i have to glue the aluminium cup aswell ?
thanks!
airaf89 said:
Hello everyone,
first of thanks
Soup anxietey for the great guide and the pics, thanks spaul for the info!
I have the same problem with my n53 e60 , ordererd the kit for bmw vanos and i will be able to redeem it today from the post.
i just wanted to know, how were your problems since then? any new problems ccv still running smooth?
Do i have to glue the aluminium cup aswell ?
thanks!
Hey,first of thanks
Soup anxietey for the great guide and the pics, thanks spaul for the info!
I have the same problem with my n53 e60 , ordererd the kit for bmw vanos and i will be able to redeem it today from the post.
i just wanted to know, how were your problems since then? any new problems ccv still running smooth?
Do i have to glue the aluminium cup aswell ?
thanks!
I'm still going strong on 170,000 miles. Oil consumption is still OK.
Use liquid gasket to secure the aluminium cap, it forms a seal but can be removed easily in the future if needed.
Thanks for this! I have just started getting this issue today at 124k miles, was pretty freaked out until I found this thread. I'd actually checked ccv pressure a while ago and the oil cap used to open without any issue however today it took serious force to open the oil cap while running so everything is pointing me to having the same issue. Any chance you could re-upload your photos?
markirl said:
Thanks for this! I have just started getting this issue today at 124k miles, was pretty freaked out until I found this thread. I'd actually checked ccv pressure a while ago and the oil cap used to open without any issue however today it took serious force to open the oil cap while running so everything is pointing me to having the same issue. Any chance you could re-upload your photos?
I've only been able to find the thumbnails cached online, postimg.org with the originals has disappeared.Here you go...
Original cap removed, tear in membrane visible.
Cap removed and the revised N53 innards on show, this is why the plastic caps do not fit.
Tear in the original membrane visible.
Original cap on the left, incorrect plastic cap in the middle (after I sawed off the extra material!), and the aluminium cap on the right. Notice the difference between the height of the incorrect plastic cap and aluminium caps, particularly the level for where the cap would sit.
New cap installed.
Hi everyone!
I have the exact same problem as posted on the first comment, with the same sound.
Strange thing in my case is: I already changed valve cover 2 years ago, to a brand new one from BMW dealer.
I dont have the oil cap suction. ( i remember how hard was it to open, but now its pretty easy.)
Any suggestions what should i do? The noise is the same as on the video, and even if i open the cap, it remains for a couple of secs.
I have the exact same problem as posted on the first comment, with the same sound.
Strange thing in my case is: I already changed valve cover 2 years ago, to a brand new one from BMW dealer.
I dont have the oil cap suction. ( i remember how hard was it to open, but now its pretty easy.)
Any suggestions what should i do? The noise is the same as on the video, and even if i open the cap, it remains for a couple of secs.
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