Fun family car - B8 S4 vs F10 M5

[mpit]

Before we start, I know they aren't direct competitors, but they have equal pros and cons for my set of requirements

So what I'm looking for is a fast/fun family car with the following criteria;
Sub-£30k, cheaper the better.
Comfortably take four people + luggage
Tow at least 1500kg (track/race car)
Be fun enough to drive that I don't find myself wishing I was in my other car every time I drive it
Average around 30mpg on a gentle 70mph motorway cruise (15k miles a year like this!)

There's a lot of want for the M5. Epically fast car, big, comfy, will tow 2 tonne. That said, I worry if this will lead to me not wanting to park it in certain places, or being over protective to a level that impedes enjoyment.

The other half is nervous about it's size, although she manages in her F25 X3 that this car will be replacing.

The S4 seems like it'll be pretty rapid with a bit of fettling, smaller car for the other half and £10k cheaper. It's available in an estate, too, which is a bonus!

I'm just hoping to get some other input, points of views I've missed or perhaps even another car that I should be considering. It seems the necessity to tow limits my options, greatly

[SirSamuelBuca]

the m5 is something else i would not even consider and S4 after being taken out in my mates m5. blows the m3/m4 out of the water too

[Cupramax]

333hp vs 560. The S4 will be be able to use more of its performance more of the time and with less fuss due to 4wd, but when it can the M5 is on another planet.

[hondansx]

S4 is too dull... no wide arches like the RS cars.

I'd go M5; equally dull to look at but at least it is fapping quick!

[MEC]

You're going to struggle with 30mpg on an F10 M5 though. We went to the coast on New Years Day and I got 22 mpg coming home after reseting the trip. This was an approx 100 mile journey, 70 miles MWay and the rest A road and was taken fairly steadily. Quite a lot of cameras on one section too so some 70mph cruise for 20 miles or so.......

[mpit]

MEC said:

You're going to struggle with 30mpg on an F10 M5 though. We went to the coast on New Years Day and I got 22 mpg coming home after reseting the trip. This was an approx 100 mile journey, 70 miles MWay and the rest A road and was taken fairly steadily. Quite a lot of cameras on one section too so some 70mph cruise for 20 miles or so.......

I've spoken to a few owners who seem to think 30 should be possible at 70, claiming they often see high 20s at higher speeds.

Bare in mind, it's pretty much motorway door to door and generally driven at a constant 70 cruise, considering the amount of speed cameras in the routes I do.

You don't think it's possible?

[MEC]

To be fair mine is very new and hasn't yet got 3000 miles on it; it may well improve with age but the absolute best I have seen is 26 mpg!

If you're going to drive it like Miss Daisy to eek out 30 mpg (and you would need to) then a 535d might be a bateer choice. If you have any kind of fun it then the eceonomy suffers very quickly. It's not at all difficult to get it down to 14/15 mpg!!

[mpit]

MEC said:

To be fair mine is very new and hasn't yet got 3000 miles on it; it may well improve with age but the absolute best I have seen is 26 mpg!

If you're going to drive it like Miss Daisy to eek out 30 mpg (and you would need to) then a 535d might be a bateer choice. If you have any kind of fun it then the eceonomy suffers very quickly. It's not at all difficult to get it down to 14/15 mpg!!

I'm only interested in the economy on the long journeys.

I couldn't care less what it averages the rest of the time

The alternative is two cars again, but I hate getting in the X3 and wishing I was in my M3!

[MEC]

mpit said:

I'm only interested in the economy on the long journeys.

I couldn't care less what it averages the rest of the time

The alternative is two cars again, but I hate getting in the X3 and wishing I was in my M3!

Fair enough. On that basis I would say high 20's is very do-able but I would doubt you will see 30+ on a regular basis. That carbuyer guy, 'Mat Something' brought one back from France and averaged 28 I think - you'll find the vid on youtube easily enough?

Does anyone know if they get significantly better econmomy with 20/30K miles on them?

When I bought mine I considered a 3.0tdi A4 and a Boxster, not 100% sure I made the right decision yet! I do like it but miss the usefulness of having a "spare" car.

[theboss]

I've seen 28-29mpg out of my M5 on a sedate motorway run but you only have to give it the slightest pasting on an a road afterwards to drag that average back down to 21-22 which is where it is most of the time for me.

Its a spectacularly capable all-rounder.

[SWoll]

Reading your original post I'd say that 'cheaper the better' and 'M5' are a recipe for disaster. If you're that concerned about purchase price and MPG then the other running costs of a £75K M car will likely be a bit much?

Not sure how often you need to tow, but perhaps get an older car specifically for the job and open up your options for the daily?

Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 4th January 20:14

[richatnort]

My two pennies worth I'd go for the S4 avant. Looking to get one myself in next year I want a fast family estate that isn't going to break the bank on running costs. Plus I think no flared wheel arches makes it look like a same old car until you put your foot down and make people think jesus What's that.

Also it's going to be less likely to get knicked as they will just see another A4 which is another reason I like it.

[mpit]

SWoll said:

Reading your original post I'd say that 'cheaper the better' and 'M5' are a recipe for disaster. If you're that concerned about purchase price and MPG then the other running costs of a £75K M car will likely be a bit much?

Not sure how often you need to tow, but perhaps get an older car specifically for the job and open up your options for the daily?

Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 4th January 20:14

I'm buying a £30k performance car, it's hardly a shoestring budget, but there has to be a limit. 30MPG is mine given the 10-15k of motorway mileage alone each year.

That also doesn't mean that having an extra £10k to spend on a track car wouldn't be welcome if I found something that fit the brief a bit cheaper.

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd say a W212 E63 fits the bill very well you'll see high 20's (same as the M5) on the Motorway plus it has that bombastic 6.2 V8

2010 E63 AMG 25k FSH with the Performance Pack

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

2011 E63 AMG 34k FMBSH

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Or if you don't mind a smaller car then and want 4WD then how about the 4Matic C63 & they will do 30mpg at 70mph (just) as they're not as highly tuned as the E so will use less juice

2012 C63 4-Matic 41k FMBSH

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

2012 C63 27k FMBSH

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

[Willy Nilly]

I have no experience with such cars, but put it to you that there is a huge difference in running costs between a £30k car and an M5. If a Golf GTI gave me 30mpg I'd be happy, I doubt an M5 would see 30mpg idling on the back of a recovery truck.

[mpit]

ZX10R NIN said:

...AMG...

Great suggestions, but the AMGs aren't rated for towing

Willy Nilly said:

I have no experience with such cars, but put it to you that there is a huge difference in running costs between a £30k car and an M5. If a Golf GTI gave me 30mpg I'd be happy, I doubt an M5 would see 30mpg idling on the back of a recovery truck.

I find it odd that you say you've got no experience with such cars but continue to offer advice on them, anyway.

I'm well versed with running M-cars

[ZX10R NIN]

Weirdly I saw a C63 with a tow bar when I was visiting Aus so thought they were legal, just checked & no legal EU type approval, sorry about that

I'd go for the M5 then.

Found these images:

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Wednesday 4th January 22:55

[mpit]

Yeah, I've no doubt they are capable, it's just a shame they aren't rated for it in the UK.

I'd definitely be on the C63 if it towed - has similar levels of appeal of the M5 but easier on the eye, cheaper and a bit smaller for the Mrs.

[Willy Nilly]

mpit said:

Willy Nilly said:

I have no experience with such cars, but put it to you that there is a huge difference in running costs between a £30k car and an M5. If a Golf GTI gave me 30mpg I'd be happy, I doubt an M5 would see 30mpg idling on the back of a recovery truck.

I find it odd that you say you've got no experience with such cars but continue to offer advice on them, anyway.

I'm well versed with running M-cars

The person that buys a new M5, isn't the sort of person that worries too much about the EU economy cycle figures. They want a fast saloon car. There are loads of economical, durable, reliable cars about, you're practically tripping over them, so if you want a car like that, take your pick.

A 30 grand M5 is going to be 500hp ish. A good, heavy duty diesel that has been designed around low operating costs is going to need 95 litres of fuel every hour at full load. So, I'll humour you and say that the specific fuel consumption of a high performance BMW gasoline engine is the same as a 15 litre Cummins (it won't be). Now, you see me at the lights on my bike and want to remind me how successful you are, when you boot it and try to leave me standing, you'll be needing a litre and a half a minute, almost certainly more, so getting on for 2 quid a minute in fuel.

Obviously you won't be driving everywhere at full load, but you will be driving everywhere with a 4.4 litre turbo charged engine in a 2 tonne car with it's tyres and brakes that can handle 500+ horses with their associated running costs. So one doesn't need to be a an ////M specialist to take a punt that these are expensive cars to run and 30mpg on a motorway run may, just maybe a little optimistic.

If you can afford one, brilliant, good for you, but to say in you opening post that

mpit said:

Sub-£30k, cheaper the better.

I'm wondering if high performance saloon ownership is for you.

[mpit]

After running an E92 M3 over 15 track days and 15k miles over the last 15 months, an M5s running costs are highly unlikely to shock me, I can assure you

What I find curious is that just about every person that's actually owned an M5 I've spoken to claims they get high-20s on a motorway run, but some bloke on the internet that's comparing it to obscure diesel engines says I probably won't.

Perhaps I'll put up another thread asking whether I can afford to run an M5 based on how much I want to spend on purchasing one.

Edited by mpit on Thursday 5th January 09:43