Used Car Prices - when will Residual Values Fall?

Used Car Prices - when will Residual Values Fall?

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Discussion

jc74

Original Poster:

52 posts

133 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
For years now, despite bad economic times etc, there have been an ever increasing number of new car registrations. Something like 80% of new cars are being sold on finance/leases and every 2-3 years (or less) people typically trade in their car and 'buy' a new car. I've had my fair share of this game too where you can buy a brand new car (after discounting) for very little more than a one year old car, but I've been sitting there thinking soon there will be so many 2-3 year old cars traded back in and out there on the used market that the residual values will drop significantly. However this scenario never seems to happen!

For example, someone leases a Golf R on a crazy £150pm deal over 2 years (about 2 years ago now). The car was new at about £28000 (after discounts etc on the list price of £32k). Used 2 year old decent examples are still asking around £22000 which is a lot considering you can lease a new one for not much more (discounting and cheaper rate new car finance than used). You would think that you would be able to pick one up for about £16-18k.

Surely either the residual values of used cars can't keep holding up as they are or people are going to have eventually have not keep buying a record number of new cars each year?

nickfrog

22,851 posts

232 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Maybe down to how good the yield management of a chunk of the ex-lease cars by the franchised networks has become and may explain the stability. And the fact that the trade holds such a large proportion of the supply nowadays, as most people finance/lease and don't tend to sell privately.

Matt UK

18,075 posts

215 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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nickfrog said:
And the fact that the trade holds such a large proportion of the supply nowadays, as most people finance/lease and don't tend to sell privately.
I think it's this. The dealer networks are onto a smart ruse with the leasing as it means they get the car back and another crack at the whip, probably to whack it out on another £300/mth to the next Joe Public.

If all of the 3 year old cars are with main dealers, it doesn't take more than a weekly conference call across the marque DPs to set the selling prices. Cynical, moi?

jc74

Original Poster:

52 posts

133 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
Maybe down to how good the yield management of a chunk of the ex-lease cars by the franchised network has become and may explain the stability. And the fact that the trade holds such a large proportion of the supply nowadays, as most people finance/lease and don't tend to sell privately.
If the used prices are so close to new prices, and people tend to just lease a new car these days, the trade must be holding an ever growing number of part-exchanges which must be just sat somewhere. Surely eventually it'd reach the point where these cars having sat unused for the best part of a year or more will just be dumped onto the market? For example I've had a car which I've traded in in the past and still hasn't been tax (and therefore I assume not bought) after a year...


kambites

69,518 posts

236 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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Don't forget finance is also propping up the second-hand market; I don't know what proportion of second-hand cars are "bought" on finance but it has become significant.

I also think some people who buy second-hand with cash fail to appreciate quite how cheaply the car in question can be bought new. If you've never considered buying new, it's not necessarily obvious quite how out of step list prices have become with what people actually pay.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 29th December 11:28

Sheepshanks

37,246 posts

134 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
kambites said:
I also think some people who buy second-hand with cash fail to appreciate quite how cheaply the car in question can be bought new. If you've never considered buying new, it's not necessarily obvious quite how out of step list prices have become with what people actually pay.
That's kind of the explanation I was given by a VW dealer salesman about why his group (Inchcape) had a large number of nearly-new Tiguans that were dearer than discounted new.

mike74

3,687 posts

147 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Perhaps the dealers are shipping all these 2-3 year old ex-finance cars abroad?

There certainly isn't the glut of cheap 2-3 year old cars for sale that you would expect to see as a result of these finance deals coming to an end.

Evanivitch

24,469 posts

137 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
mike74 said:
Perhaps the dealers are shipping all these 2-3 year old ex-finance cars abroad?

There certainly isn't the glut of cheap 2-3 year old cars for sale that you would expect to see as a result of these finance deals coming to an end.
Because all these 2-3 year old cars are going straight back to the dealer to resell at dealer inflated prices.

Iva Barchetta

44,044 posts

178 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
mike74 said:
Perhaps the dealers are shipping all these 2-3 year old ex-finance cars abroad?

There certainly isn't the glut of cheap 2-3 year old cars for sale that you would expect to see as a result of these finance deals coming to an end.
Ship to where ?

Where is the nearest RHD market ?....apart from Ireland.

red_slr

19,069 posts

204 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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Its not just cars. I was looking at buying a fork lift a few weeks ago and its a similar story.

swisstoni

19,938 posts

294 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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It sounds like it's worth their while to scrap the surplus.
I wonder if they do? Stats would be available from DVLA presumably.
Can't see the green lobby being too pleased if t'were true.

Jonno02

2,262 posts

124 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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There's always the market of "I don't finance and all that tosh, CASH BUY" so a £22000 car to these people is a bargain compared to a £28000 new one. Even though on finance the payments are similar.

nickfrog

22,851 posts

232 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
Because all these 2-3 year old cars are going straight back to the dealer to resell at dealer inflated prices.
Inflated compared to what ? They sell for as much as the market will bear as they make the market what with the majority of cars withing their network.

va1o

16,081 posts

222 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
For the Golf R in particular there are loads of them coming through at BCA auctions at the moment, all look to be ex-lease. Residuals have taken a hitting as I've seen them retail for as little as £18k, whereas a few months ago before the influx they'd always be £20k upwards.

Also my Golf GTD is 18-month old this week and has covered 36k miles, I'm getting trade in quotes of literally half its original list price!

anonymous-user

69 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
Evanivitch said:
Because all these 2-3 year old cars are going straight back to the dealer to resell at dealer inflated prices.
Inflated compared to what ? They sell for as much as the market will bear as they make the market what with the majority of cars withing their network.
Although 'inflated' was not the right phrase, I do think it's a captive market now for the dealers.

If there's little competition in the classifieds from private and independent traders then they can minimise depreciation and keep the sale price high, but tempt buyers with attractive used car finance packages

It's like the price of new cars - high retail figures but sold with tempting discounts and finance deals. It's a win win for the main dealerships.

The trade are scrapping over private sales and auction fodder the main dealers don't ant to retail

Evanivitch

24,469 posts

137 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
Inflated compared to what ? They sell for as much as the market will bear as they make the market what with the majority of cars withing their network.
Inflated in regards to the actual benefit of main dealer versus perceived benefit of main dealer, or even against private.

Joeguard1990

1,211 posts

141 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
Because all these 2-3 year old cars are going straight back to the dealer to resell at dealer inflated prices.
It works both ways. A private seller would be able to sell their own Golf R at a much higher price as they would have the inflated dealer prices to compare against. Essentially Car manufacturers set the resale value when they set the GFV on all the cars they sell.

It was mentioned in the BMW thread on here recently but I'm surprised the investigations haven't already started and they still get away with it.

T5R+

1,226 posts

224 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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Used to buying a 2 year old car generally at auction.

Noticed over tha last few years that closed auctions are selling cars much, much below retail(eg £4-5K below retail price on a car forecourted at £25K car) and cannot fathom why. These are fully warranted, FDSH, seviced, grade 1/2 and ready to retail cars of German maque.

I can sometimes get in to the closed auction but not bid/buy and in my experience it seems to the same 6-10 key buyers up and down the country.




Sheepshanks

37,246 posts

134 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
va1o said:
Also my Golf GTD is 18-month old this week and has covered 36k miles, I'm getting trade in quotes of literally half its original list price!
Even though it's a diesel I suppose it's going to be seen as having done high mileage.

Sheepshanks

37,246 posts

134 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Joeguard1990 said:
Evanivitch said:
Because all these 2-3 year old cars are going straight back to the dealer to resell at dealer inflated prices.
It works both ways. A private seller would be able to sell their own Golf R at a much higher price as they would have the inflated dealer prices to compare against.
People often say it's tough to sell privately at this kind of price level as buyers want the facilities (p/x, finance etc) and security of buying through a dealer.