OPC MoT padding?
Discussion
Some weeks ago my 997.2 failed its MoT, done at an OPC. Failed on coolant leak from crossover radiator hoses, rear lower arm bushes split and rear brake pipes corroded. They also gave 'amber' warnings on condensation in rear lights (which were replaced under warranty two years ago), brake disc corrosion and having a non-Porsche battery (I'd replaced the pathetic OEM item with a far superior top of the range Bosch).
They also presented me with an estimate for £3,500 to rectify, at their labour rate of £135+VAT/hour, which is only slightly more than my orthopaedic surgeon charges.
So I took it down to our highly trusted, non-local (75 miles) specialist and told them to sort it for the MoT and give me a report on anything else that needed doing. I had a slightly bemused message from them this evening, to say that it had sailed through its MoT with no advisories other than the front tyres being moderately worn.
I've asked them to double check the items raised by OPC but am now starting to wonder if either the OPC is just deeply anal about things or whether there's a little creative padding of the report going on. Anyone had similar experiences?
They also presented me with an estimate for £3,500 to rectify, at their labour rate of £135+VAT/hour, which is only slightly more than my orthopaedic surgeon charges.
So I took it down to our highly trusted, non-local (75 miles) specialist and told them to sort it for the MoT and give me a report on anything else that needed doing. I had a slightly bemused message from them this evening, to say that it had sailed through its MoT with no advisories other than the front tyres being moderately worn.
I've asked them to double check the items raised by OPC but am now starting to wonder if either the OPC is just deeply anal about things or whether there's a little creative padding of the report going on. Anyone had similar experiences?
No surprises there.
They are quite anal about things, but they are also prone to gilding the lilly.
Did you ask them what of this,if anything, was necessary to pass the MOT? TBH I am surprised that they did the MOT test, they normally farm those out to a local testing centre. Did you also see the failure sheet for the MOT?
My experience is that an OPC will tell you what is necessary to return your car to tip-top condition, as they would expect and be able to warranty, and in doing so you will incur costs for a lot of things that just aren't what we might call necessary. But at the same time, yes, they will charge you 2-3x what a good indy will charge for labour.
Unless you're under warranty then I'd get the MOT done elsewere and take the list of faults to a good indy in your area and as their opinion. You can take off £500 for the inferior battery and fitting, for a start.
They are quite anal about things, but they are also prone to gilding the lilly.
Did you ask them what of this,if anything, was necessary to pass the MOT? TBH I am surprised that they did the MOT test, they normally farm those out to a local testing centre. Did you also see the failure sheet for the MOT?
My experience is that an OPC will tell you what is necessary to return your car to tip-top condition, as they would expect and be able to warranty, and in doing so you will incur costs for a lot of things that just aren't what we might call necessary. But at the same time, yes, they will charge you 2-3x what a good indy will charge for labour.
Unless you're under warranty then I'd get the MOT done elsewere and take the list of faults to a good indy in your area and as their opinion. You can take off £500 for the inferior battery and fitting, for a start.
gd said:
No surprises there.
They are quite anal about things, but they are also prone to gilding the lilly.
You mean the one un-named OPC which missed 3 failed wheel bearings on my 996.1 GT3? And then went on to say that it is one of the best they have ever seen? The same OPC, which did a top end rebuild on a 928 S4, only to forget to do the final angular torque settings on the head bolts, and thus caused another spectacular head gasket failure... They are quite anal about things, but they are also prone to gilding the lilly.
Cheburator mk2 said:
You mean the one un-named OPC which missed 3 failed wheel bearings on my 996.1 GT3? And then went on to say that it is one of the best they have ever seen? The same OPC, which did a top end rebuild on a 928 S4, only to forget to do the final angular torque settings on the head bolts, and thus caused another spectacular head gasket failure...
How far north was that OPC? Mine is always very friendly and helpful, and very concerned when I point out their failings. But that's the problem: pretty much everything I've had them do they've cocked up, up to stranding me on a motorway hard shoulder at night in a blizzard because they'd not purged the coolant system properly (of course when the light came on I had no way of telling whether it was an airlock or had dumped all its coolant). Cheburator mk2 said:
You mean the one un-named OPC which missed 3 failed wheel bearings on my 996.1 GT3? And then went on to say that it is one of the best they have ever seen? The same OPC, which did a top end rebuild on a 928 S4, only to forget to do the final angular torque settings on the head bolts, and thus caused another spectacular head gasket failure...
Coolant leak was indeed a failure, along with the corroded brake pipes and the split suspension bushes - taken from the failure sheet.Around 6 years ago we took my wife's newly aquired Boxster S to our local OPC for a service and check over. After they initially tried to over charge her on collection by £300 with an 'invoice mistake', they advised a further £5500.00 of work. We have never been back. A local specialist has looked after the car since and has saved us a fortune. The car was out of warranty and apart from the brake discs that needed doing the rest of the 'advised' work is yet to be in need of carrying out 6 years on and 75k later. 
The problem with MOT tests is that it relies on people's opinions and some people are more "thorough" (for want of a better term) than others; things like corrosion are somewhat subjective as to what is harmless surface corrosion and what is a failure. I put my Defender in this month for an MOT and a new fuel filler pipe (fuel pissed out the last couple of times the tank was full, a certain MOT failure) the guys did the MOT first to see if there was anything else needed so they could do all the work in one go and it passed first time, the tester completely missed the hole in the fuel filler! Obviously the workshop I use still replaced the filler and a couple of other bits they noted, but the point is the MOT guy missed things and passed the car, which he shouldn't have in its condition.
Customers tend to believe the guys that present us with the smaller list of faults are correct and the others are padding our bill out, because if we are honest that is the answer we wanted to hear, not that our car actually does need £££'s spending on it.
You haven't said if the independent confirmed that the brake pipe are corroded, coolant leaking etc., I would be surprised to hear they were perfect and the OPC simply invented the issues for MOT failure. It's more likely to be two different MOT testers & workshops having different standards of what is or isn't acceptable
Customers tend to believe the guys that present us with the smaller list of faults are correct and the others are padding our bill out, because if we are honest that is the answer we wanted to hear, not that our car actually does need £££'s spending on it.
You haven't said if the independent confirmed that the brake pipe are corroded, coolant leaking etc., I would be surprised to hear they were perfect and the OPC simply invented the issues for MOT failure. It's more likely to be two different MOT testers & workshops having different standards of what is or isn't acceptable
NAS90 said:
The problem with MOT tests is that it relies on people's opinions and some people are more "thorough" (for want of a better term) than others; things like corrosion are somewhat subjective as to what is harmless surface corrosion and what is a failure. I put my Defender in this month for an MOT and a new fuel filler pipe (fuel pissed out the last couple of times the tank was full, a certain MOT failure) the guys did the MOT first to see if there was anything else needed so they could do all the work in one go and it passed first time, the tester completely missed the hole in the fuel filler! Obviously the workshop I use still replaced the filler and a couple of other bits they noted, but the point is the MOT guy missed things and passed the car, which he shouldn't have in its condition.
Customers tend to believe the guys that present us with the smaller list of faults are correct and the others are padding our bill out, because if we are honest that is the answer we wanted to hear, not that our car actually does need £££'s spending on it.
You haven't said if the independent confirmed that the brake pipe are corroded, coolant leaking etc., I would be surprised to hear they were perfect and the OPC simply invented the issues for MOT failure. It's more likely to be two different MOT testers & workshops having different standards of what is or isn't acceptable
That's what I'm inclined to think: PK are ramping the car up this morning to look carefully at those items, despite the fact that it went through the MoT OK. So waiting to hear.Customers tend to believe the guys that present us with the smaller list of faults are correct and the others are padding our bill out, because if we are honest that is the answer we wanted to hear, not that our car actually does need £££'s spending on it.
You haven't said if the independent confirmed that the brake pipe are corroded, coolant leaking etc., I would be surprised to hear they were perfect and the OPC simply invented the issues for MOT failure. It's more likely to be two different MOT testers & workshops having different standards of what is or isn't acceptable
It's a very well known fact that, if your car's warranty expired and do not want to extend it, an indy/specialist should take care of the car. It's much better and affordable otherwise you are just paying OPC's extra expenses like rents, new business launches or special events with those hourly rates.
Oh the work they do is very sloppy in the service department, in most cases, imho.
Oh the work they do is very sloppy in the service department, in most cases, imho.
Technomad said:
How far north was that OPC? Mine is always very friendly and helpful, and very concerned when I point out their failings. But that's the problem: pretty much everything I've had them do they've cocked up, up to stranding me on a motorway hard shoulder at night in a blizzard because they'd not purged the coolant system properly (of course when the light came on I had no way of telling whether it was an airlock or had dumped all its coolant).
The OPC was actually quite South... They had a 2.7RS undergoing a total resto in there, so they must be doing things right too, but missing the three bearings on the GT3 and cocking up the work on the 928 have put me off from ever taking the GT3 back there...gottans said:
They are quite 'anal' but more interested in giving rather receiving.
:-)I have to admit I can't disagree with any of the above.
My previous OPC forgot to reconnect the turbo pipework after changing the cambelt on my 997tt, and when I complained they then tried to suggest they change the belt without removing the pipes so it couldn't possibly have been them (untrue, from what a friendly indy told me). We've also had a few interesting issues with the quality of repair work too, including broken trim panels and tools left in engine bays!
I guess I was suggesting that "the norm" for an OPC was to try to find as many things as possible which they can charge you for, regardless of whether we would replace them ourselves at that point. But of course I have to admit they are prone to making mistakes and missing things too, as per the above. Either way it's costly.
And yes, for £150+ per hour I would expect far better.
Been on both sides with this with a Scots OPC.
On one hand, I fell hook, line and sinker for a list of MoT padded pass work needed on my old Box. They even tried to charge me £150 to wash the thing afterwards.
On the other hand, they were the only workshop in the Central Belt that did anything like reputable, decent work on the 944 that we used to run. I remember a specialist failed to replace driveshaft bolts after changing the 20+ year old one for a new unit. Unsurprisingly, the saggy old bolts worked loose, the shaft fell off, wrecking the new part and taking some other underside gubbins with it.
Down "South" it is different and I have a specialist I trust working on my Cayman (there's more specialist competition in the South East that tends to keep the standards higher than back home).
On one hand, I fell hook, line and sinker for a list of MoT padded pass work needed on my old Box. They even tried to charge me £150 to wash the thing afterwards.
On the other hand, they were the only workshop in the Central Belt that did anything like reputable, decent work on the 944 that we used to run. I remember a specialist failed to replace driveshaft bolts after changing the 20+ year old one for a new unit. Unsurprisingly, the saggy old bolts worked loose, the shaft fell off, wrecking the new part and taking some other underside gubbins with it.
Down "South" it is different and I have a specialist I trust working on my Cayman (there's more specialist competition in the South East that tends to keep the standards higher than back home).
Some garages will find a long list of things to do because they hope you'll keep the car with them for them to be done. Others operate on a different business model - to a different standard. Do you want your car tip top and good for three to five years? Or are you happy for a (smaller) bill at every MOT? As we can see, it's difficult for them to get it right, risking either missing things or being seemingly over zealous. I think the trick is to find a garage that meets your expectations.
Tenuously on topic, but the one that always makes me laugh is "welding to MOT standard". That's the minimum standard isn't it?
The guy above who had the cambelt replaced. I hope that's not what they charged you for...
Tenuously on topic, but the one that always makes me laugh is "welding to MOT standard". That's the minimum standard isn't it?
The guy above who had the cambelt replaced. I hope that's not what they charged you for...
delays said:
Been on both sides with this with a Scots OPC.
On one hand, I fell hook, line and sinker for a list of MoT padded pass work needed on my old Box. They even tried to charge me £150 to wash the thing afterwards.
On the other hand, they were the only workshop in the Central Belt that did anything like reputable, decent work on the 944 that we used to run. I remember a specialist failed to replace driveshaft bolts after changing the 20+ year old one for a new unit. Unsurprisingly, the saggy old bolts worked loose, the shaft fell off, wrecking the new part and taking some other underside gubbins with it.
Down "South" it is different and I have a specialist I trust working on my Cayman (there's more specialist competition in the South East that tends to keep the standards higher than back home).
That OPC story sounds familar, although the specialist I'm using is indeed in the Central Belt and have proven exemplary so far. My car has now been ramped up and the issues the OPC identified do exist, albeit nowhere near an MoT fail, so I will allow 'interpretation' there. OTOH the OPC did miss that the rear discs need replacing.On one hand, I fell hook, line and sinker for a list of MoT padded pass work needed on my old Box. They even tried to charge me £150 to wash the thing afterwards.
On the other hand, they were the only workshop in the Central Belt that did anything like reputable, decent work on the 944 that we used to run. I remember a specialist failed to replace driveshaft bolts after changing the 20+ year old one for a new unit. Unsurprisingly, the saggy old bolts worked loose, the shaft fell off, wrecking the new part and taking some other underside gubbins with it.
Down "South" it is different and I have a specialist I trust working on my Cayman (there's more specialist competition in the South East that tends to keep the standards higher than back home).
PCT Porsche, on the A45 just outside Coventry, are an absolutely brilliant indie. I bought my 996 c4 from them a couple of years ago, service has been fantastic. There were a couple of minor suspension niggles which appeared shortly after I bought it, they fixed them with no quibbles under their 6-month warranty. IMHO they are much better in every way than any main dealer I have ever dealt with.
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