S2000 vs Brera vs 3.0 Z4: Ownership comparisons!
Discussion
Hallo PH,
Thought I'd share some thoughts on these three cars. I have been fortunate enough to own and drive both over the last 3 years. The S2K is my current weekend car; but there definitely are times where I miss the Z & the Brera!
So here they are...
The Z a couple of years ago in Autumn:
It's been really difficult to choose a 'favourite', as all three have their merits and flaws. Here goes...
For the money this car cost me in 2013 (5k), I think certainly for smiles per miles it's very, very hard to compete with this car. I'd previously owned a Mk2 Mx5 and was ready for some upgrades in terms of engine size, power available, and interior. Whilst the Mx5 was low, compact and snug, the Z4 has plenty of space even for taller drivers. I certainly had no issues with legroom.
The power delivery in this car was phenomenal. Sitting behind the wheel of this with the roof down, the sun shining and the heaters on full blast - and heated leather seats! - was an epic experience. Coming from the mx5 the acceleration is relentless in this. I had to go for the proper 3L engine, ~230 bhp in something as compact as this was the only option
.
In terms of steering, this car didn't really give me any issues, although some say the electronic steering does deaden the experience somewhat. Frankly I was glad it was sharp enough to keep me on the road during many very spirited drives on the back roads around Surrey!
As a 24 year old at the time, I was thrilled every time I stepped into this fantastic machine. It had some flaws though; the notorious roof motor did flood and fail on me as I was racing a thunderstorm (yes) and myself & girlfriend at the time did get soaked, to the delight of the rest of the road-going public!!!
Highlights in this include driving to Goodwood through the A3 Hindhead tunnel and racing some girl driving an orange elise, covered in PH stickers - slowing the whole road traffic down in order to kane it down the tunnel itself. It's also taken me and my ex many many miles on a road trip round Skye without fail - the replacement roof motor did a much better job that time!
Rating? For me, a good 8/10, and would/will have another. The newer Z has tempted me but it's still got a lot of depreciation to go through, and something about the shape of the original Z4 still grabs my attention - especially it's rump! I will get a Z4MC in the near future and drive it hard. The 3.0 was great but the M car must be a riot to drive.
Would give it a good 8/10 - would be a 9 if the roof motor issues weren't so prevalent!
Brera after some TLC up at Hindhead National Trust:
After browsing the classifieds on PH & AT a friend suggested looking at Alfas. Somehow I'd overlooked these completely, my needs having changed due to a much longer commute into London from Hampshire. I needed an economical diesel which could do 60 mpg on a £5k budget. This definitely did not deliver on the MPG front - I'd estimate, with spirited overtaking on the A3, this didn't have many MPG over the Z4 despite the diesel engine! Picked this up late 2014.
After buying it I had a DPF delete and remap done by AHM in Hartley Wintney (great guys). This unlocked a useful 25 more BHP & noticeably improved the economy; being sensible in the slow lane of the motorway the car would deliver 42 MPG. Still not great. But where this car excelled was it's thunderous overtaking once the turbo kicked in; the power came like a wave, initially there is little response unless holding the engine near the redline in a lower gear. Lots of fun after plenty of practice, and I have to praise the engine unit for it's consistency and reliability. Whoever said Alfas always break down? (-:
The interior was fantastic in this car, especially for two. Ample space in the foot well, lovely leather seats and brushed aluminium dash complimented the lovely array of dials which are very driver - focused. This was probably my favourite place to be in all three of these cars.
Having changed job roles I find my commute much shorter, and miss the Brera a lot more than I thought I would. The looks, especially the light clusters front & rear (the rear in particular - bit of a theme emerging here!). It felt heavy, and the doors must have been made out of solid pig iron! It felt a 'safe' place to be, but the weight was incredible, and transporting my mates in the back was comedy (4 of us, from 6'1 to 6'5, crammed into all four seats).
Would probably have another as a daily, if it had a belt service done recently and strong service history. Remapped, these make a potent alternative to petrol hot hatches. They're rare, look lovely, and respond well to agile footwork - but the repair bills can be high. Still, paying £5000 for this, it delivered style, power and thrills. Quite why someone would waste £25k on a new hot hatch instead of considering these is beyond me... A shame the soundtrack and FWD handling let the overall dynamic experience down somewhat, although there's still a lot of entertainment and comfort packaged up in this car with the strong 2.4 unit under the hood.
Probably a 6.5/10 overall for me, with room for improvement in terms of MPG & the weight of the thing!
Finally, this green beast... The S2000 after a B road blast:
I needed an antidote to my petrol cravings, having just moved from the Z4 to the Brera and now using a 1.9 diesel 159 as a daily. Luckily I now have a garage space to use, and it was a crime to leave it empty... So I set about finding something to occupy it, and found this amazing machine!
First impressions are the razor sharp looks of the car from the front. The sloping bonnet and aggressive headlight cluster stood out, as did the tastefully refurbished gunmetal alloys (complete with red Honda badge!) :-)
Test driving this after two love/hate years with diesels was thrilling. The clutch balance took some getting used to, as did the bite point and nature of the power delivery. Not wanting to destroy the engine on a test drive I didn't use VTEC until the seller insisted I unlock the potential within the outstanding 2L engine. WOW... I was screaming with delight as the car surged forwards and somehow I'd gone from 30mph to nearly illegal speeds in 2, 3 seconds. It almost feels like turbo horsepower in the VTEC rev range - despite having very low torque on the stat sheet.
I was really impressed by the snug cabin, which was very reminiscent of the Mx5 in many ways. The lovely gearstick and slick manual changes are a delight. I honestly think it's nearly impossible to match this car in terms of traditional, analogue layout - manual, RWD, N/A engine and easy-to-work interior switches. The roof motor is super quick and reliable, even the audio controls on the driver's right are great - you can stop annoying passengers from changing your music with the flick of the mute switch! :-)
Overall, even though I've not had the car nearly as long as the others, it's fast becoming my favourite. The soundtrack is what sets the S2K out above the others; the engine note as you hold it on a gradual acceleration curve into the 8k range is incredible. The handling is pin sharp, another area it excels over th Z4; the feel is much more intuitive, I would say. Not once have I driven it in the wet and felt any doubt over the car's ability to hold a line on wet tarmac, although it feels light enough to allow the back to slide if the driver wanted to abuse the VTEC power so easily on tap ;-)
Overall? It would have to be the winner. For the enjoyment this car is giving me as a keen driver, it's setting a benchmark for me now in terms of future cars. Possible replacements could only be considered if they had greater BHP. A Z4MC would be an aspiration. The S2K could contend with an M car, in most arenas other than a flat-out drag race, if the driver made the most of the optimal power ranges and slick handling.
So overall... the S2000 is worthy of a comparison - winning 9/10 from me! (-:
T
Thought I'd share some thoughts on these three cars. I have been fortunate enough to own and drive both over the last 3 years. The S2K is my current weekend car; but there definitely are times where I miss the Z & the Brera!
So here they are...
The Z a couple of years ago in Autumn:
It's been really difficult to choose a 'favourite', as all three have their merits and flaws. Here goes...
For the money this car cost me in 2013 (5k), I think certainly for smiles per miles it's very, very hard to compete with this car. I'd previously owned a Mk2 Mx5 and was ready for some upgrades in terms of engine size, power available, and interior. Whilst the Mx5 was low, compact and snug, the Z4 has plenty of space even for taller drivers. I certainly had no issues with legroom.
The power delivery in this car was phenomenal. Sitting behind the wheel of this with the roof down, the sun shining and the heaters on full blast - and heated leather seats! - was an epic experience. Coming from the mx5 the acceleration is relentless in this. I had to go for the proper 3L engine, ~230 bhp in something as compact as this was the only option
.In terms of steering, this car didn't really give me any issues, although some say the electronic steering does deaden the experience somewhat. Frankly I was glad it was sharp enough to keep me on the road during many very spirited drives on the back roads around Surrey!
As a 24 year old at the time, I was thrilled every time I stepped into this fantastic machine. It had some flaws though; the notorious roof motor did flood and fail on me as I was racing a thunderstorm (yes) and myself & girlfriend at the time did get soaked, to the delight of the rest of the road-going public!!!
Highlights in this include driving to Goodwood through the A3 Hindhead tunnel and racing some girl driving an orange elise, covered in PH stickers - slowing the whole road traffic down in order to kane it down the tunnel itself. It's also taken me and my ex many many miles on a road trip round Skye without fail - the replacement roof motor did a much better job that time!
Rating? For me, a good 8/10, and would/will have another. The newer Z has tempted me but it's still got a lot of depreciation to go through, and something about the shape of the original Z4 still grabs my attention - especially it's rump! I will get a Z4MC in the near future and drive it hard. The 3.0 was great but the M car must be a riot to drive.
Would give it a good 8/10 - would be a 9 if the roof motor issues weren't so prevalent!
Brera after some TLC up at Hindhead National Trust:
After browsing the classifieds on PH & AT a friend suggested looking at Alfas. Somehow I'd overlooked these completely, my needs having changed due to a much longer commute into London from Hampshire. I needed an economical diesel which could do 60 mpg on a £5k budget. This definitely did not deliver on the MPG front - I'd estimate, with spirited overtaking on the A3, this didn't have many MPG over the Z4 despite the diesel engine! Picked this up late 2014.
After buying it I had a DPF delete and remap done by AHM in Hartley Wintney (great guys). This unlocked a useful 25 more BHP & noticeably improved the economy; being sensible in the slow lane of the motorway the car would deliver 42 MPG. Still not great. But where this car excelled was it's thunderous overtaking once the turbo kicked in; the power came like a wave, initially there is little response unless holding the engine near the redline in a lower gear. Lots of fun after plenty of practice, and I have to praise the engine unit for it's consistency and reliability. Whoever said Alfas always break down? (-:
The interior was fantastic in this car, especially for two. Ample space in the foot well, lovely leather seats and brushed aluminium dash complimented the lovely array of dials which are very driver - focused. This was probably my favourite place to be in all three of these cars.
Having changed job roles I find my commute much shorter, and miss the Brera a lot more than I thought I would. The looks, especially the light clusters front & rear (the rear in particular - bit of a theme emerging here!). It felt heavy, and the doors must have been made out of solid pig iron! It felt a 'safe' place to be, but the weight was incredible, and transporting my mates in the back was comedy (4 of us, from 6'1 to 6'5, crammed into all four seats).
Would probably have another as a daily, if it had a belt service done recently and strong service history. Remapped, these make a potent alternative to petrol hot hatches. They're rare, look lovely, and respond well to agile footwork - but the repair bills can be high. Still, paying £5000 for this, it delivered style, power and thrills. Quite why someone would waste £25k on a new hot hatch instead of considering these is beyond me... A shame the soundtrack and FWD handling let the overall dynamic experience down somewhat, although there's still a lot of entertainment and comfort packaged up in this car with the strong 2.4 unit under the hood.
Probably a 6.5/10 overall for me, with room for improvement in terms of MPG & the weight of the thing!
Finally, this green beast... The S2000 after a B road blast:
I needed an antidote to my petrol cravings, having just moved from the Z4 to the Brera and now using a 1.9 diesel 159 as a daily. Luckily I now have a garage space to use, and it was a crime to leave it empty... So I set about finding something to occupy it, and found this amazing machine!
First impressions are the razor sharp looks of the car from the front. The sloping bonnet and aggressive headlight cluster stood out, as did the tastefully refurbished gunmetal alloys (complete with red Honda badge!) :-)
Test driving this after two love/hate years with diesels was thrilling. The clutch balance took some getting used to, as did the bite point and nature of the power delivery. Not wanting to destroy the engine on a test drive I didn't use VTEC until the seller insisted I unlock the potential within the outstanding 2L engine. WOW... I was screaming with delight as the car surged forwards and somehow I'd gone from 30mph to nearly illegal speeds in 2, 3 seconds. It almost feels like turbo horsepower in the VTEC rev range - despite having very low torque on the stat sheet.
I was really impressed by the snug cabin, which was very reminiscent of the Mx5 in many ways. The lovely gearstick and slick manual changes are a delight. I honestly think it's nearly impossible to match this car in terms of traditional, analogue layout - manual, RWD, N/A engine and easy-to-work interior switches. The roof motor is super quick and reliable, even the audio controls on the driver's right are great - you can stop annoying passengers from changing your music with the flick of the mute switch! :-)
Overall, even though I've not had the car nearly as long as the others, it's fast becoming my favourite. The soundtrack is what sets the S2K out above the others; the engine note as you hold it on a gradual acceleration curve into the 8k range is incredible. The handling is pin sharp, another area it excels over th Z4; the feel is much more intuitive, I would say. Not once have I driven it in the wet and felt any doubt over the car's ability to hold a line on wet tarmac, although it feels light enough to allow the back to slide if the driver wanted to abuse the VTEC power so easily on tap ;-)
Overall? It would have to be the winner. For the enjoyment this car is giving me as a keen driver, it's setting a benchmark for me now in terms of future cars. Possible replacements could only be considered if they had greater BHP. A Z4MC would be an aspiration. The S2K could contend with an M car, in most arenas other than a flat-out drag race, if the driver made the most of the optimal power ranges and slick handling.
So overall... the S2000 is worthy of a comparison - winning 9/10 from me! (-:
T
Good write ups.
Drive down a bumpy country road and you will immediately see the difference between the S2000 and Z4.
The Z4 will be jittery and will claw at the cambers pulling car all over the place, unlike the S2000 which will remain compliant over the bumps.
I had two S2000's and had in between I test drove a 3.0 Z4 as I was going to change, but a weekend proved the above to me and I only enjoyed the Z4 over smooth surfaces and craved for the 9000 rpm red line.
Drive down a bumpy country road and you will immediately see the difference between the S2000 and Z4.
The Z4 will be jittery and will claw at the cambers pulling car all over the place, unlike the S2000 which will remain compliant over the bumps.
I had two S2000's and had in between I test drove a 3.0 Z4 as I was going to change, but a weekend proved the above to me and I only enjoyed the Z4 over smooth surfaces and craved for the 9000 rpm red line.
Love the colour of that S2000 and I would agree with a lot of what you say on both the Z4 and S2000.
My ownership went:
Z4 daily
E90 330i daily
S2000 - current weekend car.
The more I drive the S2000 the more I fall for it, the Z4 was a fine daily but it didn't have enough drama for me to be a weekend / sunny day toy. Looking forward to updates
My ownership went:
Z4 daily
E90 330i daily
S2000 - current weekend car.
The more I drive the S2000 the more I fall for it, the Z4 was a fine daily but it didn't have enough drama for me to be a weekend / sunny day toy. Looking forward to updates
alock said:
NorthernSky said:
The soundtrack is what sets the S2K out above the others; the engine note as you hold it on a gradual acceleration curve into the 8k range is incredible.
I assume you have an induction kit on it then? If not then you're only getting half the noise!I did some research on the colour, there's only 4 left on UK roads apparently - some guru on S2K forums has discovered 3 of the remaining ones!
Thanks for the comments folks, I too love the colour - the roads are full of bland silver/black/blue/white cars, something with this engine deserves a lairy colour.
moffat said:
I had two S2000's and had in between I test drove a 3.0 Z4 as I was going to change, but a weekend proved the above to me and I only enjoyed the Z4 over smooth surfaces and craved for the 9000 rpm red line.
The latter issue goes away with the Z4M - 8000rpm limit and another two cylinders otolith said:
moffat said:
I had two S2000's and had in between I test drove a 3.0 Z4 as I was going to change, but a weekend proved the above to me and I only enjoyed the Z4 over smooth surfaces and craved for the 9000 rpm red line.
The latter issue goes away with the Z4M - 8000rpm limit and another two cylinders NorthernSky said:
Mmm, this is encouraging. Are you speaking from personal experience!
Of the Z4M, yes. I've not had an S2000, I appreciate that the F20C is different, but I did like the K20A in my Civic. The BMW engine reminds me of that in character, just 50% bigger and a six cylinder sound track.Nice post.
So in 2005 I bought a Z4 3.0, ended up supercharging it. Sold it 3 1/2 years later. Loved it and faster than the Z4M that followed.
2012 I bought a S2000, sadly our time was cut short as I planned to emigrate.
Later in 2013 I bought a Z4M roadster, sold it Jan 2016, made a nice profit on it too.
I just bought my old S2000 back 3 years later For £1500 more than I sold it 
Says it all really! Both the Z4M and S2000 have their strengths and flaws, but the S2000 gives the biggest smile on the right day as a weekender.
So in 2005 I bought a Z4 3.0, ended up supercharging it. Sold it 3 1/2 years later. Loved it and faster than the Z4M that followed.
2012 I bought a S2000, sadly our time was cut short as I planned to emigrate.
Later in 2013 I bought a Z4M roadster, sold it Jan 2016, made a nice profit on it too.
I just bought my old S2000 back 3 years later
For £1500 more than I sold it Says it all really! Both the Z4M and S2000 have their strengths and flaws, but the S2000 gives the biggest smile on the right day as a weekender. Beautiful S2000!
Even 9yrs on, I miss my 04 S2000 enormously. Reading reviews like yours takes me right back to it and wish I'd never got rid of it. I had an E89 Z4 23i earlier this year and took me back to the open-top days but it was missing something...............VTEC!
The green is awesome. Can't be many of those around? I was also a big fan of the orange and the yellow too. Mine was Silverstone but at least had the full red cabin!
Even 9yrs on, I miss my 04 S2000 enormously. Reading reviews like yours takes me right back to it and wish I'd never got rid of it. I had an E89 Z4 23i earlier this year and took me back to the open-top days but it was missing something...............VTEC!
The green is awesome. Can't be many of those around? I was also a big fan of the orange and the yellow too. Mine was Silverstone but at least had the full red cabin!
S2000 - best car I ever owned. Did 140K miles and it literally never missed a beat. Beautiful looking car and just as good looking with the top up as down. Mine replaced a Porsche Boxster S and I'd take the S2000 over the Boxster any time. Love the colour of yours too. Keep it nice and you'll make money on it too.... these will be a future classic!
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