Some good news (at last) for I.T. Contractors
Discussion
I'm sure you've all heard that they've now removed all IT jobs from the Fast Track Visa list, but here's the BBC article on it anyway:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2222212.stm
Best (only) good news for contracting for some time...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2222212.stm
Best (only) good news for contracting for some time...
Good news indeed - now that they've issued chrissknows how many permits whilst there are resident IT contractors who can't get any work at even half their usual rate.
Let us hope this marks the beginning of a period of improvement..
I need money for a very fast car.. and I need it now..
I suppose equity release on the house to buy a TVR would not be the soundest of financial moves
Let us hope this marks the beginning of a period of improvement..
I need money for a very fast car.. and I need it now..
I suppose equity release on the house to buy a TVR would not be the soundest of financial moves
Goods news indeed, BUT with 2 caveats:
1) It will be reviewed in 3 months, so may be a temporary reprieve. You can bet that pressure will be applied from "interested parties" in business to get this reversed.
2) Many contract and permanent positions have already been filled by FTV bodies, who are unlikely to leave until they have to. I'm sure the visas issued are not open ended and will expire, but how many will expire before IT jobs are pushed back to Tier 1?
Sorry, pessimistic I know, but as one who has had his lifestyle and standard of living brutally taken away, cynicism is the order of the day.
1) It will be reviewed in 3 months, so may be a temporary reprieve. You can bet that pressure will be applied from "interested parties" in business to get this reversed.
2) Many contract and permanent positions have already been filled by FTV bodies, who are unlikely to leave until they have to. I'm sure the visas issued are not open ended and will expire, but how many will expire before IT jobs are pushed back to Tier 1?
Sorry, pessimistic I know, but as one who has had his lifestyle and standard of living brutally taken away, cynicism is the order of the day.
quote:
Sorry, pessimistic I know, but as one who has had his lifestyle and standard of living brutally taken away, cynicism is the order of the day.
I will second that, I had a very rough patch last year due to the lack of IT contracts that were normally available if you had good skills and experience. I found myself in a position where it was difficult to get anything. I have very talented friends in London who still have no work and have been living in poverty for over a year now.
Most of (not all) the recruitment agencies I used were absolute parasites who could not care about you, this was one of the most frustrating things about the situation. Oh, that and the complete lack of plus signs on my bank statements.
Now I am working all over Europe (France, Switzerland, Germany, Italy) its actually a nice break from the UK. I won't return until things look a bit better on the job front. No way am I going through another cash crisis! My lifestyle is far too expensive for that
Deester...
Agree entirely with Philshort (shockhorror!!
) and others - Mrs CarZee has been out of work for over a year - hence selling the TT and starting her own business completely unconnected to IT.
There's been to much misery in the work & contract situation in the last 12 months. I *need* things to improve. Or I need to become an international contract killer. Or Recruitment Consultant Killer
) and others - Mrs CarZee has been out of work for over a year - hence selling the TT and starting her own business completely unconnected to IT. There's been to much misery in the work & contract situation in the last 12 months. I *need* things to improve. Or I need to become an international contract killer. Or Recruitment Consultant Killer
Is it just me, or are recruitment agencies really the most ignorant bunch of people? They advertise positions (often fictional) and then when you respond to the ads you get no reply whatsoever, often even after repeated phone calls.
Look, its pretty simple really. If you put up an ad and someone applies who you do not think is suitable, let them know. You might even discover that there's more to the applicant than you thought. Don't just ignore them hoping they'll go away, if they need a job THEY WON'T. All you have to do is communicate fer chrissakes, thats what you get you commission for isn't it?
Can't help thinking a lot of these people don't realise they are messing with peoples lives.
Look, its pretty simple really. If you put up an ad and someone applies who you do not think is suitable, let them know. You might even discover that there's more to the applicant than you thought. Don't just ignore them hoping they'll go away, if they need a job THEY WON'T. All you have to do is communicate fer chrissakes, thats what you get you commission for isn't it?
Can't help thinking a lot of these people don't realise they are messing with peoples lives.
quote:
Is it just me, or are recruitment agencies really the most ignorant bunch of people? They advertise positions (often fictional) and then when you respond to the ads you get no reply whatsoever, often even after repeated phone calls.
Look, its pretty simple really. If you put up an ad and someone applies who you do not think is suitable, let them know. You might even discover that there's more to the applicant than you thought. Don't just ignore them hoping they'll go away, if they need a job THEY WON'T. All you have to do is communicate fer chrissakes, thats what you get you commission for isn't it?
Can't help thinking a lot of these people don't realise they are messing with peoples lives.
We see the other side of the Recruitment Consultants, or pond scum as they are referred to in the office. We get cold calls from them sometimes 5 times a day, and they are persistent buggers, phone one line, get told, no not interested, then the next phone goes... And email, even though we're not hiring, oh, here's a candidate that might interest you...
Hopefully internet job sites will kill the bleeders off permanently.
My experience of the contract agencies at the moment has been sh1t. As contract positions have been scarce on the ground, I've recently found out that my agency is charging the client a 34% commission on top of my day rate.
This means 1) I get a sh1t day rate, 2) The client gets ripped off.
Needless to say some renegotiation is going on.
This means 1) I get a sh1t day rate, 2) The client gets ripped off.
Needless to say some renegotiation is going on.
Whilst I've every sympathy with good well skilled people being out of work for prolonged periods, but didn't some of you read the writing on the wall months ago ?
The market has been flat for ages for one reason or another (firstly post Y2K, then fears of impending recession, now accounting fiction / US market / possible war with Iraq).
I agree that an influx of cheaper labour would devalue the contractor market as a whole (and corporates don't help by buying them up en masse), but this downturn has been slowly coming round the corner for ages now.
It's a shame this visa system has been so open to abuse because I think one of the major failings of the contractor market, certainly in IT is the ratio of good, well skilled techies to monkeys out to make a quick buck.
I'd have hoped that the monkey ratio would lessen, but all I've seen and heard of are a bunch of foreigners waving paper MCSE's, good at stripping and rebuilding PC's. No other certification, and no fault finding skill set to speak of. In short, no bloody use at all.
The market has been flat for ages for one reason or another (firstly post Y2K, then fears of impending recession, now accounting fiction / US market / possible war with Iraq).
I agree that an influx of cheaper labour would devalue the contractor market as a whole (and corporates don't help by buying them up en masse), but this downturn has been slowly coming round the corner for ages now.
It's a shame this visa system has been so open to abuse because I think one of the major failings of the contractor market, certainly in IT is the ratio of good, well skilled techies to monkeys out to make a quick buck.
I'd have hoped that the monkey ratio would lessen, but all I've seen and heard of are a bunch of foreigners waving paper MCSE's, good at stripping and rebuilding PC's. No other certification, and no fault finding skill set to speak of. In short, no bloody use at all.
quote:
quote:
Is it just me, or are recruitment agencies really the most ignorant bunch of people? They advertise positions (often fictional) and then when you respond to the ads you get no reply whatsoever, often even after repeated phone calls.
Look, its pretty simple really. If you put up an ad and someone applies who you do not think is suitable, let them know. You might even discover that there's more to the applicant than you thought. Don't just ignore them hoping they'll go away, if they need a job THEY WON'T. All you have to do is communicate fer chrissakes, thats what you get you commission for isn't it?
Can't help thinking a lot of these people don't realise they are messing with peoples lives.
We see the other side of the Recruitment Consultants, or pond scum as they are referred to in the office. We get cold calls from them sometimes 5 times a day, and they are persistent buggers, phone one line, get told, no not interested, then the next phone goes... And email, even though we're not hiring, oh, here's a candidate that might interest you...
Hopefully internet job sites will kill the bleeders off permanently.
Phil I fully understand where you are coming from here, unfortunately the market is so bad I receive on average 40 applicants for every advert I post and it is obvious from half of them that they have not even read the add (or if they have they see sending there CV as a shot in the dark) as there skills are not even close to suitable. I still try to reply to most of my candidates, but it is sometimes impossible to call or write emails to the 100 + candididates I get per day.
Neil thanks for the less than constructive comment. Agents do not enjoy cold calling, we would like to have enough established clients to work with 365 days per year, but in case you have not heard the market has slowed some, and the recruitment companies still have overheads and the consultants still need to pay bills and drumming up business is there job.
There are two sides to the coin, if you are out of work and looking for a job I am sure you would like to think that the recruiters you have spoken to are actively looking for positions for you rather than just sitting there complaining about the state of the market.
If you are a project manager then yes when the market is bad you will receive a higher % of calls trying to sell you candidates - That’s life, I am sure that when you next are looking for work you will be calling an agent of some descrption and probably asking them if they have any suitable positions, I would like to see how far you get referring to them as pond scum.
We all have a great time calling lawyers/salesmen/estate agents scum and what ever else, but when you need them and you are arrested/in need of a product/moving home they are the people you rely on.
If the truth be known agents may not be perfect but they are an important part of the recruitment process and cannot be ignored or cut out of the loop. Without agents the contract market would be no more.
If you think that contractors are the only ones finding it hard you are wrong.
quote:
Neil thanks for the less than constructive comment. Agents do not enjoy cold calling, we would like to have enough established clients to work with 365 days per year, but in case you have not heard the market has slowed some, and the recruitment companies still have overheads and the consultants still need to pay bills and drumming up business is there job.
There are two sides to the coin, if you are out of work and looking for a job I am sure you would like to think that the recruiters you have spoken to are actively looking for positions for you rather than just sitting there complaining about the state of the market.
If you are a project manager then yes when the market is bad you will receive a higher % of calls trying to sell you candidates - That’s life, I am sure that when you next are looking for work you will be calling an agent of some descrption and probably asking them if they have any suitable positions, I would like to see how far you get referring to them as pond scum.
We all have a great time calling lawyers/salesmen/estate agents scum and what ever else, but when you need them and you are arrested/in need of a product/moving home they are the people you rely on.
If the truth be known agents may not be perfect but they are an important part of the recruitment process and cannot be ignored or cut out of the loop. Without agents the contract market would be no more.
If you think that contractors are the only ones finding it hard you are wrong.
Mark
quote:No, I'm not that naive. But surely that is all the more reason for agents to treat all applications seriously? You can't have it both ways, either the market is slow or you are snowed under with work.
If you think that contractors are the only ones finding it hard you are wrong.
quote:And what, Greg, would you have had us done?
Whilst I've every sympathy with good well skilled people being out of work for prolonged periods, but didn't some of you read the writing on the wall months ago ?
The answer to the question is yes - years ago in fact; I predicted exactly the situation we are now in as soon as IR35 reared its ugly head, even before FTV's were dreamed up. Many peers though I was being unduly pessimistic, unfortunately not.
The whole point is that the market has been depressed over and above what would other wise have happened, due to Government intervention (IR35/FTV). The individual contractor has been powerless to do anything other than protest and watch as the contract market dwindled to nought.
So please, enlighten me as to what we should have been doing to prevent out current plight?
quote:Mikey - hanging on tooth and nail. I have negative equity on the A8, so I'm stuck with that. The Chim is bought and paid for, but not safe by any means. I'm struggling to see how my permie salary can stretch to cover outgoings (to cover any damn thing if truth be known), and our savings, such as they are, will not last forever. It may only be a matter of time - its already becoming a source of friction in the household! It will be a dark day if it has to go.
Still got the TVR then Phil?
>> Edited by philshort on Thursday 29th August 16:21
Phil,
You are missing my point. I am agreeing with you that all candidates should be taken seriously, but being snowed under with candidates does not equal business.
What you need is an equal amount of candidates and jobs to fill (in an ideal world) and at the moment the balance is very one sided. I am saying that 24 months ago when you posted an advert for a specialist of any descrption you would hope to receive 4-5 CVs of which 2/3 may be suitable. With the market as depressed as it is each advert can receive 40+ applications in a matter of days. This makes it very hard (read impossible) to reply to every CV you receive and do the necessary to find new requirements.
At the moment it is a buyers market and clients are being very choosy over the people they hire because they can be. Gone are the days when commercial experience means you could have 5+ interviews per week at your discrecion, and as a recruiter a good CV meant the client would work with you just so as they had a chance of hiring the candidate in question. Good candidates are no longer such a commodity, I have thousands of great candidates that I would love to find work for but the work is there. The work I can find is fiercely contested by agents and candidates alike. There is such an overflow of good people looking for work. The jobs are now the commodity and the clients now this. The recruitment market is changing rapidly and clients are becoming more sophisticated in there buying methods. Due to online advertising there is now no such thing as a niche market / supplier, and clients are now interested in bulk buying / managed services and streamlining processes and little else. If you cannot add value in other ways (reducing costs) clients are not interested in your CVs (as everyone has thousands at the mo). In a market were anyone can have 40+ CV for virtually any skill in a matter of hours the individual candidate becomes allot less important in the equation as does the recruiter unless you are the chosen preferred supplier.
I have been in the top 3% of recruiters world wide for the last three years and I have some very well established relationships with some large employers but many of them have had recruitment freezes for the last 12 months. Those relationships I have are useless right now. I therefore have to spend 90% of my time talking and visiting potential clients to try and establish new relationships with clients that are hiring or planning to hire. Once I have done this and I have jobs to fill I can try and help the candidates that are already registered my me. Without the jobs to fill I am effectively useless to candidates and they are useless to me.
I know you might not like it; I don’t but that is the way it is. It is not the fault of the agents. The market is not driven by them just supported by them.
You are missing my point. I am agreeing with you that all candidates should be taken seriously, but being snowed under with candidates does not equal business.
What you need is an equal amount of candidates and jobs to fill (in an ideal world) and at the moment the balance is very one sided. I am saying that 24 months ago when you posted an advert for a specialist of any descrption you would hope to receive 4-5 CVs of which 2/3 may be suitable. With the market as depressed as it is each advert can receive 40+ applications in a matter of days. This makes it very hard (read impossible) to reply to every CV you receive and do the necessary to find new requirements.
At the moment it is a buyers market and clients are being very choosy over the people they hire because they can be. Gone are the days when commercial experience means you could have 5+ interviews per week at your discrecion, and as a recruiter a good CV meant the client would work with you just so as they had a chance of hiring the candidate in question. Good candidates are no longer such a commodity, I have thousands of great candidates that I would love to find work for but the work is there. The work I can find is fiercely contested by agents and candidates alike. There is such an overflow of good people looking for work. The jobs are now the commodity and the clients now this. The recruitment market is changing rapidly and clients are becoming more sophisticated in there buying methods. Due to online advertising there is now no such thing as a niche market / supplier, and clients are now interested in bulk buying / managed services and streamlining processes and little else. If you cannot add value in other ways (reducing costs) clients are not interested in your CVs (as everyone has thousands at the mo). In a market were anyone can have 40+ CV for virtually any skill in a matter of hours the individual candidate becomes allot less important in the equation as does the recruiter unless you are the chosen preferred supplier.
I have been in the top 3% of recruiters world wide for the last three years and I have some very well established relationships with some large employers but many of them have had recruitment freezes for the last 12 months. Those relationships I have are useless right now. I therefore have to spend 90% of my time talking and visiting potential clients to try and establish new relationships with clients that are hiring or planning to hire. Once I have done this and I have jobs to fill I can try and help the candidates that are already registered my me. Without the jobs to fill I am effectively useless to candidates and they are useless to me.
I know you might not like it; I don’t but that is the way it is. It is not the fault of the agents. The market is not driven by them just supported by them.
quote:
Neil thanks for the less than constructive comment.
Apologies, this was not intended to be a dig at someone trying to do a hard job.
It was intended to be a dig at those in the profession who cannot understand that 'No, we are not hiring. No, it doesn't make sense to call us back in two months' means 'dont call'. To phone on one line asking - again - if we are now hiring, being told no, and then calling on the next line - generally to be answered by the same person - is a waste of our (and their) time. Since my last post, I got yet another email with a CV attached.
I guess its not the profession, its not the people, its the tactics that bug the hell out of me. When I'm looking for a job, I expect professional service. When I'm looking to hire a candidate, I expect professional service. And when I'm in neither position, I still expect professional service, but I don't see a lot of it, I see relentless and pointless sales tactics.
quote:
If the truth be known agents may not be perfect but they are an important part of the recruitment process and cannot be ignored or cut out of the loop. Without agents the contract market would be no more.
This is not the case... I have been speeking to a friend originally from Australia, where there is a large contract market, and they do not have agencies at all. Jobs are advertised by companies on web sites, applicants apply and interviews are carried out.
In a time where companies are trying to cut costs (and for good reasons), paying a agancy £15p/hour over the contractors rate for say, 6 months, just for an inital introduction is just not good value for money. For a 6 month contract that works out at ~£15,600 (based on an 8 hour day).
Why is it companies in this country are so addicted to agencies?
Lake
(IT Contractor)
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