Honda NSX vs Porsche 911 Turbo vs Audi R8 V10 supercar track
Discussion
tPorsche911R said:
I hate the way EVERY car review these days is just understeer :-(
NSX understeer
R8 hate the steering
911 understeer
not good is it !
NSX understeer
R8 hate the steering
911 understeer
not good is it !
99% of owners of these cars will NOT take them on track, and of the 1% of them that do, 99.9% won't drive them in the manner Sutcliffe drives them in this video.
Understeer is the default/safe option for vast majority (99% ?) of all owners of cars such as these, primarily because most (not all) have more money than talent/ability behind the wheel.
It's not in any manufacturers interest to make "dangerous oversteery" cars, the prime example being the 996 GT2, which rapidly ended up with the widowmaker tag that it's still afflicted with to this very day. Cars are not intrinsically dangerous, they only become so when driven (often quickly) by those lacking the skill/knowledge to do so properly.
Once a car has a reputation for being tricky to handle, it lessens it's market appeal. Proof ? How many 996 X50 turbos were sold worldwide, compared with the identically engined 996 GT2.
Individuals that can't/won't live with a safe understeering chassis are in the minority (and it's a tiny minority at that), it's why Audi produce what I (and many others) consider to be monumentally dull, safe handling cars. But the mass market wants dull, safe handling, high horsepower cars that can be driven quickly in pretty much any weather conditions on our poorly surfaced roads, often by individuals with little or no skill or understanding of chassis dynamics, and at speeds that would have embarrassed a WRC car 25-30 years ago.
Give the public an R8 V10 with oversteer biased chassis/transmission, likewise the new NXS (or a RWD 991 GT2 with zero drivers aids) and there'd be far more of these on wrecked exotics :
Which in a country as litigious as the US, would mean more idiotic cases such as these involving Cynthia Files and latterly Paul Walker :
https://www.yahoo.com/news/history-says-meadow-wal...
Fortunately common sense has prevailed in the Paul Walker case :
http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/5/11371200/paul-wal...
Personally if I were Porsche AG I'd make any American owner of a new/used Porsche sign a declaration to say that they understand they're purchasing a high performance vehicle and that the onus is on them (the prospective owner) to undertake all the necessary training needed to drive/handle the car in a safe manner, and that NO claims will be entertained in the event of a death or serious injury whilst driving their products (and it's proven they hadn't the commensurate skill to drive such a car).
Put bluntly, you're in the minority in these matters, so it's down to you find and buy/modify/tailor what suits YOUR own very personal needs, rather than expect the car makers to produce a niche product with individuals like you in mind.
Edit, 'cos I can't spell.
Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 24th October 09:59
Slippydiff said:
Once a car has a reputation for being tricky to handle, it lessens it's market appeal. Proof ? How many 996 X50 turbos were sold worldwide, compared with the identically engined 996 GT2.
very similar, not identical, the GT2 engine was slightly more powerful(rest of your post makes a lot of sense)
shantybeater said:
different software map - engine is identical, as is the exhaust/turbos
thought there were some engine tweaks in GT2google gave me total 911 link "The engine itself came in for some fettling, and along with a light alloy crankcase and pistons there were forged connecting rods, Nikasil-lined bores and dual valve springs with hydraulic tappets." though maybe that was in X50 pack too?
Slippydiff said:
Put bluntly, you're in the minority in these matters, so it's down to you find and buy/modify/tailor what suits YOUR own very personal needs, rather than expect the car makers to produce a niche product with individuals like you in mind.
Lotus Elise are a prime example, it's a niche product they have been making for 15 years, every new model says less under steer and more track focused, even the last CUP 220 car which is said to be a race car for the road understeers, so the new CUP 250 they say we have a NEW geo on it.15 years on and they are still pissing about with geo setting on the same platform !!!!
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