How to buy a 996 C4S with minimum heartache?
Discussion
Morning All,
I've been a long time admirer of the 996 C4S and I'm seriously in the market for one (manual, seal grey/arctic/polar silver between 60-80k miles, if anyone know of any available). However, after investigating and discovering the IMS/RMS and bore scoring issues I'm a tad worried I'll end up needing an engine rebuild during my ownership.
What actions can I take to safeguard against these risks?
So far I have come up with the following;
PPI before buying (I appreciate the PPI would not involve checking the IMS or RMS, or would it?)
Straight to specialist after buying to inspect the IMS and RMS (should I still upgrade the IMS even with no signs of degradation?)
Low temp thermostat fitted to safeguard against bore scoring
Have I missed anything?
Would anyone be able to recommend a specialist in the Cambridge or Essex area who knows their way around the IMS upgrade?
Also, aside from the sound, is there anyway to tell if a car has PSE?
Thanks All!
I've been a long time admirer of the 996 C4S and I'm seriously in the market for one (manual, seal grey/arctic/polar silver between 60-80k miles, if anyone know of any available). However, after investigating and discovering the IMS/RMS and bore scoring issues I'm a tad worried I'll end up needing an engine rebuild during my ownership.
What actions can I take to safeguard against these risks?
So far I have come up with the following;
PPI before buying (I appreciate the PPI would not involve checking the IMS or RMS, or would it?)
Straight to specialist after buying to inspect the IMS and RMS (should I still upgrade the IMS even with no signs of degradation?)
Low temp thermostat fitted to safeguard against bore scoring
Have I missed anything?
Would anyone be able to recommend a specialist in the Cambridge or Essex area who knows their way around the IMS upgrade?
Also, aside from the sound, is there anyway to tell if a car has PSE?
Thanks All!
bigricho said:
Straight to specialist after buying to inspect the IMS and RMS (should I still upgrade the IMS even with no signs of degradation?)
Not sure there's a way of inspecting the IMS, but at the mileage you're looking at, cars which haven't lunched themselves will probably be fine and I wouldn't bother with an IMS "upgrade".An inspection is a good idea if you're a noob to the range, but there's plenty of advice out there on what to look for. I personally didn't bother as I think the actual probability of a failure during your ownership is pretty low.
bigricho said:
Also, aside from the sound, is there anyway to tell if a car has PSE?
Yes, it's the middle button here:
However considering the age of these cars I'd be surprised if an original PSE was still in tact as they are prone to rusting and splitting.
There are numerous aftermarket options out there so I wouldn't say PSE is a dealbreaker.
Also as a shameless plug, mine is up for sale (Tip though)
Northway just outside Reading have a manual C4S in Silver with blue metropole trim (really dark looks almost black) imo bit toppy at £24k but worth a chat, they have a good reputation so probably one of the safest ways of buying one.
http://www.northway.co.uk/used/porsche/996/carrera...
http://www.northway.co.uk/used/porsche/996/carrera...
jbaddeley said:
If that's had a full Hartech rebuild and it all checks out it could be a real good one at that price.
happy hunting great cars, I have a tip and manual.
Make sure you have a proper inspection, my friend bought a 53k miler last week and he's just been told by Porsche Guildford he needs a new exhaust as quite rusty and possibly shocks ?
goes to show mileage isn't everything, ,my tip has done 100k and its great underneath.
good luck
Make sure you have a proper inspection, my friend bought a 53k miler last week and he's just been told by Porsche Guildford he needs a new exhaust as quite rusty and possibly shocks ?
goes to show mileage isn't everything, ,my tip has done 100k and its great underneath.
good luck
Good luck with your search, I bought mine in 2011, expecting it to be only here for 12 months, jump forward 5+ years and I've still got it.. they are excellent as a daily driver, go anywhere, park any where, just use it for what it was designed for and you don't have to be too precious about it, todays asking prices seem to be c£25K to get a nice 1 in seal grey. Once you start having much more expensive cars sat in the street or car park, I've found I didn't want to pour miles on it, and use it, which kind of defeats the object of having 1..!
Make sure you get any potential purchase inspected by an OPC or Indie, it will be the best £250 you will ever spend, even if you have to walk away from it and start again.
Don't be too hung up about mileage or number of owners, it's all about the maintenance history, and if it's been in a hedge or not..!
Typical costly things to make a note of:
Exhausts are expensive, if it's got the OE PSE, it will be on it's last legs and that's £5K fitted, non PSE is about £3K, I've just done mine.
Brakes, Engine Coolant rads, A/C rads, Clutch, IMS bearing, RMS seal, Alternator, Starter motor, Battery all the usual stuff that wears out, so if you can find 1 that has had as many of these changed as possible you will be better off..
Running costs, maintenance only, ex tyres over 5 years my average is £2K/year, so budget around this and you won't be far out.
Engines: Bore scoring, I used to worry about this and it is a bit of a lottery, if it doesn't use any oil tho' it should be fine, there are a few around with rebuilt motors in tho' if you get lucky.
The later 04/05 cars had the newer IMS bearing fitted I understand, but if it's done 50/60K miles chances are it's going to be fine, they usually let go much earlier.
Clutches last 30-35K miles, any more and not you're driving it hard enough, mines on its 3rd..!
The PCM1/2 is s
t, take it out and shoot it, a modern head unit is the way forward, but it's expensive to do as the Bose is on MOST, all the speaker cables and amp need to be changed, so you will get a bill for £2K to do this swap out too, but touchscreen Nav, Bluetooth connectivity with Ipodery and DAB is great.
Brakes: the C2/4's brakes are not as good as st, the 6-4S has Turbo brakes, but they are still poor, after the 1st/2nd hard stop they just overheat, get noisy and don't do much stopping, 997 turbo or 6GT3 fronts as an upgrade are excellent, (but expensive to do) some cars have these on if you get lucky.., but for regular jobbing miles the stock ones do the job, you will only find out the weaknesses if you get them smoking hot, but forget track days..!
Seats: the Comfort seats are not very supportive if you like corners and roundabouts, Sports seats are much better, you can buy a pair for less than £1K, it's an easy swap too.
Tyres: You will do 2 or 3 pairs of rear tyres to 1 front set, (7000/21,000) and it's about £800/set of 4.
All in all, just a great car, and an appreciating one at that..
Make sure you get any potential purchase inspected by an OPC or Indie, it will be the best £250 you will ever spend, even if you have to walk away from it and start again.
Don't be too hung up about mileage or number of owners, it's all about the maintenance history, and if it's been in a hedge or not..!
Typical costly things to make a note of:
Exhausts are expensive, if it's got the OE PSE, it will be on it's last legs and that's £5K fitted, non PSE is about £3K, I've just done mine.
Brakes, Engine Coolant rads, A/C rads, Clutch, IMS bearing, RMS seal, Alternator, Starter motor, Battery all the usual stuff that wears out, so if you can find 1 that has had as many of these changed as possible you will be better off..
Running costs, maintenance only, ex tyres over 5 years my average is £2K/year, so budget around this and you won't be far out.
Engines: Bore scoring, I used to worry about this and it is a bit of a lottery, if it doesn't use any oil tho' it should be fine, there are a few around with rebuilt motors in tho' if you get lucky.
The later 04/05 cars had the newer IMS bearing fitted I understand, but if it's done 50/60K miles chances are it's going to be fine, they usually let go much earlier.
Clutches last 30-35K miles, any more and not you're driving it hard enough, mines on its 3rd..!
The PCM1/2 is s
t, take it out and shoot it, a modern head unit is the way forward, but it's expensive to do as the Bose is on MOST, all the speaker cables and amp need to be changed, so you will get a bill for £2K to do this swap out too, but touchscreen Nav, Bluetooth connectivity with Ipodery and DAB is great.Brakes: the C2/4's brakes are not as good as s
t, the 6-4S has Turbo brakes, but they are still poor, after the 1st/2nd hard stop they just overheat, get noisy and don't do much stopping, 997 turbo or 6GT3 fronts as an upgrade are excellent, (but expensive to do) some cars have these on if you get lucky.., but for regular jobbing miles the stock ones do the job, you will only find out the weaknesses if you get them smoking hot, but forget track days..! Seats: the Comfort seats are not very supportive if you like corners and roundabouts, Sports seats are much better, you can buy a pair for less than £1K, it's an easy swap too.
Tyres: You will do 2 or 3 pairs of rear tyres to 1 front set, (7000/21,000) and it's about £800/set of 4.
All in all, just a great car, and an appreciating one at that..
Edited by 1 Pheasant Plucker on Saturday 15th October 18:40
Just an update guys - Had a Peter Morgan inspection on a 2004 Seal Grey Manual Coupe last week. Picked it up and drove it home this morning.....raining cats and dogs.
I have to say, despite the rain, it was the most enjoyable first drive of a newly bought car. Very very enjoyable. Pics when it's a bit lighter.
Also need to do something about the exhuast! (no pse)
I have to say, despite the rain, it was the most enjoyable first drive of a newly bought car. Very very enjoyable. Pics when it's a bit lighter.
Also need to do something about the exhuast! (no pse)
Well done.., they are a great car as I said above..
You will get used to the non PSE in no time, I have mine unplugged and quiet all the time now, IMO they sound nicer at the top end RPM with it off.., but each to their own.
If you want a pair of Milltek cans which are about the same as a PSE or maybe a little bit louder, I have a new pair I don't need, PM me if you want them..!
You will get used to the non PSE in no time, I have mine unplugged and quiet all the time now, IMO they sound nicer at the top end RPM with it off.., but each to their own.
If you want a pair of Milltek cans which are about the same as a PSE or maybe a little bit louder, I have a new pair I don't need, PM me if you want them..!
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