Advice on buying my 1st Caterham
Discussion
A couple of us rented Caterham’s for a road trip around the West coast of Scotland and inevitably I’ve now got a burning desire to own a Caterham. I’m looking for some general advice on what to look for before starting the hunt for a car. The rental cars were a 2006 Roadsport SV and a 2005 CSR200.
Even though it has significantly less power I preferred driving the Roadsport over the CSR. What I liked was that to get the best out of the car you had to rev it hard and work up/down the gears.
I’m looking for any general advice before I start seriously looking for one. Budget wise I would like to stay under £25K but could sell one of my other cars to push the budget to >£40K but I’m thinking start out with the cheaper option and then if I really get into it I can upgrade in the future.
• Is it better to get a newer but lower spec car or an older car with a better spec?
• Rover or Ford engine – I suspect the Ford engine is more durable and that’s why Caterham made the move to them. As I mentioned I enjoyed having to work the rover engine hard in the SV but are they weaker and prone to issues?
• SV or standard chassis – I’m only 5’9” so don’t need the extra head room / width of the SV but I found I kept banging my elbow of the door of the CSR and didn’t have that issue in the SV.
• 5 speed or 6 speed?
• Is there any must have options which the car should have
• The rental cars had the comfy padded seats but I do like the look of the composite seats…but how comfy are they on longer runs??
• I don’t see the need for more than 200bhp so I’m swaying towards an 2002/3 R300 /R400. Is it worth spending the extra time and money to get an R400.
• The car will mainly be used on the road with the occasional track day.
• Are there any other websites/forums for sourcing Caterham's apart from the usual (pistonheads, autotrader etc)
I appreciate any advice you can give.
Thanks
Dave
Even though it has significantly less power I preferred driving the Roadsport over the CSR. What I liked was that to get the best out of the car you had to rev it hard and work up/down the gears.
I’m looking for any general advice before I start seriously looking for one. Budget wise I would like to stay under £25K but could sell one of my other cars to push the budget to >£40K but I’m thinking start out with the cheaper option and then if I really get into it I can upgrade in the future.
• Is it better to get a newer but lower spec car or an older car with a better spec?
• Rover or Ford engine – I suspect the Ford engine is more durable and that’s why Caterham made the move to them. As I mentioned I enjoyed having to work the rover engine hard in the SV but are they weaker and prone to issues?
• SV or standard chassis – I’m only 5’9” so don’t need the extra head room / width of the SV but I found I kept banging my elbow of the door of the CSR and didn’t have that issue in the SV.
• 5 speed or 6 speed?
• Is there any must have options which the car should have
• The rental cars had the comfy padded seats but I do like the look of the composite seats…but how comfy are they on longer runs??
• I don’t see the need for more than 200bhp so I’m swaying towards an 2002/3 R300 /R400. Is it worth spending the extra time and money to get an R400.
• The car will mainly be used on the road with the occasional track day.
• Are there any other websites/forums for sourcing Caterham's apart from the usual (pistonheads, autotrader etc)
I appreciate any advice you can give.
Thanks
Dave
No doubt you will get lots of different answers but my opinions are:
• Is it better to get a newer but lower spec car or an older car with a better spec?
Buy on condition over any spec, these cars are so easy to work on and improve you could buy an Ex academy car and make it better then a 2 year old none raced car.
• Rover or Ford engine – I suspect the Ford engine is more durable and that’s why Caterham made the move to them. As I mentioned I enjoyed having to work the rover engine hard in the SV but are they weaker and prone to issues?
Like any engine if looked after they are fine. I have had a Sigma and now have a K series. I know people think a K series will go pop every 5 mins but in reality its in a car about a third of the weight of the MGF or other Rovers so isn't really stressed. The engine change came about due to Rover going under. Also dont worry about home servicing as lots of people do as the cars are so easy top work on, if there are invoices for service parts used even better.
• SV or standard chassis – I’m only 5’9” so don’t need the extra head room / width of the SV but I found I kept banging my elbow of the door of the CSR and didn’t have that issue in the SV.
Sit in all of them and see whats the most comfortable. I'm 5'8" and the wrong side of 15 stone but fit in a S3 fine. Yet again they can be tweaked with lower floors, washers under the seat rails and pedal box adjustments to make the car fit you. I did find that with a SV it didn't feel snug and I moved about in the seat. But its personal choice.
• 5 speed or 6 speed?
Depends on engine and driving style. I have had 6 speeds in both of mine and come from a motorbike background so like the close ratio 6 speed box.
• Is there any must have options which the car should have
LSD are good if your going to track it but not essential. It also depends on what you will use the car for, touring, tracks & fast road or just a Sunday funday toy. Like i mentioned before the car can be personalized so much, if you see some thing you like do it to the car, on the flip side if you don't like something take it off and sell the parts to recoup some money for more upgrades.
• The rental cars had the comfy padded seats but I do like the look of the composite seats…but how comfy are they on longer runs??
The composite seats are more comfortable then they look. I have driven for 3 hours then done a day at the track with no problems. You can also get foam pads for tillets that add comfort.
• I don’t see the need for more than 200bhp so I’m swaying towards an 2002/3 R300 /R400. Is it worth spending the extra time and money to get an R400.
My sigma was almost R300 power and I currently have a R400. Around a track its the straights that it really only shows. I personal like having more power as I did find the R300 ran out of puff quicker. What ever you get some one has a quicker Caterham leavign you wanting more power.
• The car will mainly be used on the road with the occasional track day.
• Are there any other websites/forums for sourcing Caterham's apart from the usual (pistonheads, autotrader etc)
You can join Lotus 7 club that has a classifieds section, but I have found that the Facebook groups are better. There is a discussion group, market place and technical help group all used day to day. Another good option is go out to the independent garages like Sevens and Classic or Chapman cars sit in as many as possible and see what you like.
They are great cars and the community is brilliant, if you need help someone will always help out with ideas and even offer to come and help you.
Funny enough if you look on the Facebook group you may see my R400 that is up for sale and will be put on Pistonheads on Monday if it doesn't sell before hand.
Good luck in your hunt.
• Is it better to get a newer but lower spec car or an older car with a better spec?
Buy on condition over any spec, these cars are so easy to work on and improve you could buy an Ex academy car and make it better then a 2 year old none raced car.
• Rover or Ford engine – I suspect the Ford engine is more durable and that’s why Caterham made the move to them. As I mentioned I enjoyed having to work the rover engine hard in the SV but are they weaker and prone to issues?
Like any engine if looked after they are fine. I have had a Sigma and now have a K series. I know people think a K series will go pop every 5 mins but in reality its in a car about a third of the weight of the MGF or other Rovers so isn't really stressed. The engine change came about due to Rover going under. Also dont worry about home servicing as lots of people do as the cars are so easy top work on, if there are invoices for service parts used even better.
• SV or standard chassis – I’m only 5’9” so don’t need the extra head room / width of the SV but I found I kept banging my elbow of the door of the CSR and didn’t have that issue in the SV.
Sit in all of them and see whats the most comfortable. I'm 5'8" and the wrong side of 15 stone but fit in a S3 fine. Yet again they can be tweaked with lower floors, washers under the seat rails and pedal box adjustments to make the car fit you. I did find that with a SV it didn't feel snug and I moved about in the seat. But its personal choice.
• 5 speed or 6 speed?
Depends on engine and driving style. I have had 6 speeds in both of mine and come from a motorbike background so like the close ratio 6 speed box.
• Is there any must have options which the car should have
LSD are good if your going to track it but not essential. It also depends on what you will use the car for, touring, tracks & fast road or just a Sunday funday toy. Like i mentioned before the car can be personalized so much, if you see some thing you like do it to the car, on the flip side if you don't like something take it off and sell the parts to recoup some money for more upgrades.
• The rental cars had the comfy padded seats but I do like the look of the composite seats…but how comfy are they on longer runs??
The composite seats are more comfortable then they look. I have driven for 3 hours then done a day at the track with no problems. You can also get foam pads for tillets that add comfort.
• I don’t see the need for more than 200bhp so I’m swaying towards an 2002/3 R300 /R400. Is it worth spending the extra time and money to get an R400.
My sigma was almost R300 power and I currently have a R400. Around a track its the straights that it really only shows. I personal like having more power as I did find the R300 ran out of puff quicker. What ever you get some one has a quicker Caterham leavign you wanting more power.
• The car will mainly be used on the road with the occasional track day.
• Are there any other websites/forums for sourcing Caterham's apart from the usual (pistonheads, autotrader etc)
You can join Lotus 7 club that has a classifieds section, but I have found that the Facebook groups are better. There is a discussion group, market place and technical help group all used day to day. Another good option is go out to the independent garages like Sevens and Classic or Chapman cars sit in as many as possible and see what you like.
They are great cars and the community is brilliant, if you need help someone will always help out with ideas and even offer to come and help you.
Funny enough if you look on the Facebook group you may see my R400 that is up for sale and will be put on Pistonheads on Monday if it doesn't sell before hand.
Good luck in your hunt.
Hi Dave,
I suspect a number of the answers will come down to personal preference but my comments are below. My background is coming from a Rover K series Elise (VVC) to an R400 Duratec and nowrecently decided to purchase an R500 spec Duratec car.
1) Define older. Ignoring the engine the chassis's are much of a muchness between Caged (post 2008) and Arch (pre) but I thing the Arch is recognized as having the edge on quality. bugger all in it from what I can tell so wouldn't let this be a factor.
2) Personally, Ford. More durable, better torque.
3) Standard S3. It's snug but at 5'9" you really shouldn't be having any issues.
4) Both fine with the Duratec but 6 speed if you want closer ratios for track, perfectly fine on the road too. I used to go 1,2,4,6 if just cruising about.
5) For me, Track suspension pack, Quad piston brakes, LSD, uprated master cylinder, race seats (composite or carbon fibre), quick release wheel, heater, lowered floors, battery master cut-off, roll-cage (or min track day roll bar). Dry sump good to have (essential on rover if tracking)
6) Personally, found them very comfortable, happily drove to Nuburgring and back with no problems.
7) R300 recognized as a good all rounder choice, it has plenty. I like as much power as possible so built the R400, now R500.
8) I used Pistonheads and Caterham used, they are probably your best bet. Could always give the likes of Sevens and Classics Ltd a call letting them know what you are after and they can probably help source.
As said, all personal opinions, other might well disagree
Hope this helps and good luck! Great cars.
Lee
I suspect a number of the answers will come down to personal preference but my comments are below. My background is coming from a Rover K series Elise (VVC) to an R400 Duratec and nowrecently decided to purchase an R500 spec Duratec car.
1) Define older. Ignoring the engine the chassis's are much of a muchness between Caged (post 2008) and Arch (pre) but I thing the Arch is recognized as having the edge on quality. bugger all in it from what I can tell so wouldn't let this be a factor.
2) Personally, Ford. More durable, better torque.
3) Standard S3. It's snug but at 5'9" you really shouldn't be having any issues.
4) Both fine with the Duratec but 6 speed if you want closer ratios for track, perfectly fine on the road too. I used to go 1,2,4,6 if just cruising about.
5) For me, Track suspension pack, Quad piston brakes, LSD, uprated master cylinder, race seats (composite or carbon fibre), quick release wheel, heater, lowered floors, battery master cut-off, roll-cage (or min track day roll bar). Dry sump good to have (essential on rover if tracking)
6) Personally, found them very comfortable, happily drove to Nuburgring and back with no problems.
7) R300 recognized as a good all rounder choice, it has plenty. I like as much power as possible so built the R400, now R500.
8) I used Pistonheads and Caterham used, they are probably your best bet. Could always give the likes of Sevens and Classics Ltd a call letting them know what you are after and they can probably help source.
As said, all personal opinions, other might well disagree
Hope this helps and good luck! Great cars.
Lee
Hi Dave. I drive an older 1700 supersprint with xflow so not really in the same category as you are looking at BUT they are great cars (I've owned three over the years, two xflow's and one one K series car). I love the old school ford engined cars on carbs so went back to a Supersprint about 12 years ago. It's a keeper. I'm similar height and a standard S3 car is fine. Snug.
Posters above have given great advice. With your budget the new 310 car could also be an option - great reviews and in my mind is the 'new' 1700 supersprint with a nice balance between power, fun and 'won't kill myself' . I've not driven one though. I don't do track days, just touring and road blats (plus daily commute to work when weather is good) so my car is set up accordingly, quick and comfortable.
That said, there are some cracking used deals on some lovely modern caterhams out there....good luck with your decision and enjoy the car!
Dave
Posters above have given great advice. With your budget the new 310 car could also be an option - great reviews and in my mind is the 'new' 1700 supersprint with a nice balance between power, fun and 'won't kill myself' . I've not driven one though. I don't do track days, just touring and road blats (plus daily commute to work when weather is good) so my car is set up accordingly, quick and comfortable.
That said, there are some cracking used deals on some lovely modern caterhams out there....good luck with your decision and enjoy the car!
Dave
Edited by wile7 on Saturday 6th August 05:28
I would say that, if you are sticking with your intended £25k budget then seeking out an R300/R400 k series as you describe seems like a good idea. It is possible to get a Ford engined car for your budget but you'll mostly be limiting yourself to cars with the 1.6 sigma in them, the 140hp variant probably being the one to go for if you were to go this route. The 2.0 Duratec cars will start at about £25k and go upwards from there. They also don't have the out and out revy character of the K that you seem to like. They've got a lot of torque and suit the 5 speed gearbox really well whereas the k series cars, with their revy nature are arguably a better proposition mated to the 6 speed box.
Given that you said you enjoyed working the car hard to get the performance out of it then I'd definitely recommend having a go in a Sigma car with the 140 upgrade and see if you like it. Then perhaps compare it to an r300 to see which is the better fit for you. The R300 will clearly be quicker but you never know, you may prefer the sigma car on the road.
I'd try as many variants as possible and go from there.
Incidentally I've got a Duratec S3 non-SV car and am the same height as you. With the sidescreen armrests I'm never knocking my elbows as you describe so I'm thinking that's probably a trait specific to that car you were in.
Tom
Given that you said you enjoyed working the car hard to get the performance out of it then I'd definitely recommend having a go in a Sigma car with the 140 upgrade and see if you like it. Then perhaps compare it to an r300 to see which is the better fit for you. The R300 will clearly be quicker but you never know, you may prefer the sigma car on the road.
I'd try as many variants as possible and go from there.
Incidentally I've got a Duratec S3 non-SV car and am the same height as you. With the sidescreen armrests I'm never knocking my elbows as you describe so I'm thinking that's probably a trait specific to that car you were in.
Tom
One more thing on the engines. You'll find the K series generally has more options for upgrading and at cheaper cost compared to the sigma. Reliability wise, I don't think it would be unfair to say that the ford cars are more reliable but a lot of people would have you believe the k series is made out of chocolate and in some cases the horror stories are overdone.
I have had Sevens for 20 years and adore them - done lots of miles and do at least one long (1000 miles +) trip a year. Had both K and Duratec cars - and plenty of people have done stratospheric mile sin theirs so huge amount of info out there. 7 Club site has a lot - and plenty of help available from the wider Seven community.
K has character to give away and mine never let me down.Revs for ever and great noise . Sigma- only driven one and it was just fine- but not the noise of the K nor the go of the Duratec . Duratec is, allegedly , bullet proof (mine has done 46K ) , and it is certainly torquey and powerful . Noise a bit meh unless you go for roller barrels - my R400 has these and is ballistically quick and sounds great - but standard R400 just booms and blares.
I am 5' 11" and not light - S3 fits me like a glove. Comfort is really about leg room- my inside leg (ahem ) is 32" and any longer would be a struggle. Personally I don't like the SV as much -it feels like a limo in comparison.
6 speed was developed for revvy K - I have it in R400 and it is comically unnecessary- long first and what feels like 5 second gears on first acquaintance. Rubbish at motorway work too- 4k+ rpm at 70, But would I swap ? Not sure- on right road it is so much fun it should be illegal .
If you want to chat - pm me.
K has character to give away and mine never let me down.Revs for ever and great noise . Sigma- only driven one and it was just fine- but not the noise of the K nor the go of the Duratec . Duratec is, allegedly , bullet proof (mine has done 46K ) , and it is certainly torquey and powerful . Noise a bit meh unless you go for roller barrels - my R400 has these and is ballistically quick and sounds great - but standard R400 just booms and blares.
I am 5' 11" and not light - S3 fits me like a glove. Comfort is really about leg room- my inside leg (ahem ) is 32" and any longer would be a struggle. Personally I don't like the SV as much -it feels like a limo in comparison.
6 speed was developed for revvy K - I have it in R400 and it is comically unnecessary- long first and what feels like 5 second gears on first acquaintance. Rubbish at motorway work too- 4k+ rpm at 70, But would I swap ? Not sure- on right road it is so much fun it should be illegal .
If you want to chat - pm me.
Some good advice up above. You really need to try a few. Even at 6ft1 and 16 stone I was undecided between the s3 and SV, despite trying both, what i was not however undecided on was performance. I've had quickish bikes in the past so the 270 I tried just didn't do it for me. Quickish from a standing start but a modern turbo car (inc diesel) will show it a clean pair of heals once the air starts slamming into the front of the Caterham. A sweet engine and slick 6 speed box has its attractions but performance is better! I ended up with a duratec SV with rbtbs, 220bhp. Even it isn't that quick these days!
The overhead cam Ford engines lack character. Caterhams are characterful cars, they need a heart to match. I love the K-series, or anything on side draught carburettors. My Dad had an early R300 Duratec, it used to starve itself of oil and after a season of unspectacular performance it spectacularly blew up.
I'd probably pick a 5-speed with good ratios over a 6-speed. The standard 5-speed ratios aren't great and the 6-speed is a frenetic rush up and down the box and then 6th is too short.
The caged chassis is said to be stiffer but IMO the Arch chassis is more charming as the brazing is prettier and it was the traditional way.
I'd probably pick a 5-speed with good ratios over a 6-speed. The standard 5-speed ratios aren't great and the 6-speed is a frenetic rush up and down the box and then 6th is too short.
The caged chassis is said to be stiffer but IMO the Arch chassis is more charming as the brazing is prettier and it was the traditional way.
Lots of good advice above. Choose the best car over the best spec, at £25k you have plenty and can pick and choose. As you say, don't get hung up on power. Any of these cars are indecently quick on a public road and you may well find that a "lower powered" car is quicker in the real world because you don't have to wait for it to come on the cam. An engine that delivers 200bhp at 8000 rpm is great, but if it runs like a 3 legged dog below 3k rpm then it will be a pain around town. The old K series R400 was a bit like this.
hi , by the sound of it for me your best bet would be the duratec R 400 probably the best mix of engine , power , reliability in your price point , I have never driven one but always good reviews on this engine and spec , I have a 190 bhp k series on RBTB and love it has 6 speed box which suits perfectly , great match for the seven . I would love to try a 400D to compare but more than happy with the revvy k series . Such a great car I guess it's personal preference as to what engine suits best but don't discard the k , I love it and so do many others
I would also suggest trying a few as I think the impression the Duratec doesn't rev is a little misleading when comparing to the K. The Duratec has more torque meaning it's not 'necessary' to work the gears so much but mine revs to 9,000 rpm for example, not sure you want too many more revs than that
All, thanks very much for all the good advice and opinions. I plan to try cars with both engines and see which I prefer before taking the plunge.
One further questions ....I notice than most of the cars run on 13" wheels but there are a few which have 15". Is the reason for this that the 13" offer a better ride?
One further questions ....I notice than most of the cars run on 13" wheels but there are a few which have 15". Is the reason for this that the 13" offer a better ride?
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