Should this title be replaced?
Discussion
Although the TVR Challenge is going ahead! The series is hardly a top line sevent with average and below average drivers. Therefore it should be replaced by the Ginetta G20 cup! Top drivers and two celebrety cars and over 40 drivers in the championship. Most of whom are on Pistonheads!
k? 
I take it that refers to my comment regarding the heading of this thread.
As there now apears to be very little input from TVR I merely pondered aloud the relevance of the wording.
I do not wish to be drawn in to the historical (hysterical?) arguments being stirred up by people who quiet frankly ought to know better. This isn't the place for personal issues. The line between banter and slander is looking strained at the moment. IMHO.
Back to the topic, perhaps if NS gets his grand plans up and running on the production side (profit/income), which looks increasingly more credible given recent developments, 36k warranty etc., then it is not an impossible stretch of the imagination to see the day when the Motorsport dept. (drain on resources/finances)may come back into being.
Then they can "talk the talk or walk the walk".
Meanwhile, the drained and anaemic series can try to survive as best it can, hopefully without dying altogether.Good Luck to those who keep the drip's going and support the patient. It just won't be the same though.
Meantime, play nicely boys and girls.
As there now apears to be very little input from TVR I merely pondered aloud the relevance of the wording.
I do not wish to be drawn in to the historical (hysterical?) arguments being stirred up by people who quiet frankly ought to know better. This isn't the place for personal issues. The line between banter and slander is looking strained at the moment. IMHO.
Back to the topic, perhaps if NS gets his grand plans up and running on the production side (profit/income), which looks increasingly more credible given recent developments, 36k warranty etc., then it is not an impossible stretch of the imagination to see the day when the Motorsport dept. (drain on resources/finances)may come back into being.
Then they can "talk the talk or walk the walk".
Meanwhile, the drained and anaemic series can try to survive as best it can, hopefully without dying altogether.Good Luck to those who keep the drip's going and support the patient. It just won't be the same though.
Meantime, play nicely boys and girls.
Ratpit,
Well done on for posting the facts here! NS is now looking to the future and not running a series for cars that are now 16 years old! I think the best thing to do now is run the old cars in restricted form. Steve Lewis should meet with John Reid and create a super TVR series we can all enjoy.
Well done on for posting the facts here! NS is now looking to the future and not running a series for cars that are now 16 years old! I think the best thing to do now is run the old cars in restricted form. Steve Lewis should meet with John Reid and create a super TVR series we can all enjoy.
As previously posted, TVR will have no involvement in the TVR Challenge this year, other than supplying engines and parts (assuming that someone doesn't buy these lock stock and barrel). John Reid is continuing to run the series in conjunction with the BRSCC, with some help from some of the competitors, most noticeably Hugh Marshall.
Whilst I agree with much of what Ratpit posted, what he said was not fact, nor new. NS appears not to be interested in motorsport currently and there is now no motorsport department at the factory as far as I am aware. Perhaps that will change, perhaps it won't. It amuses me that the TVR website still bangs on about the importance of motorsport to the marque - quite ironic really!
We have been saying for some time (years) that the Tuscan Challenge needed to change, with new cars and new profile. The new cars never came - the T350/Sagaris was written into the regs for the last two years, but did not appear. We pleaded with the factory to rebody the existing Tuscans as an interim measure until a new car was available and could be phased in (and more importantly more money could be drawn into the series), but TVR were not interested. The slow decline of the series was inevitable.
However, we are where we are and the important thing is that these magnificent cars continue to race rather than all end up on the road or as track day toys. Whether a Tuscan-only series can be maintained remains to be seen - it is the best format for them as it generates the closest racing. But if not enough people can get out to race then clearly it will need to be combined with something suitable.
The TVRCC series may be the answer, but I don't think many of us have an appetite for racing on treaded tyres with AJP power (even detuned) - particularly those of us who have experienced the full monty on slicks. I can't remember, but I think the MSA doesn't permit different classes in the same race to run one with slicks, one with treaded tyres?
Anyway, given where the series is, do you really think that discussions have not already been held?
It is for Ted to decide whether the series continues to warrant its own forum and I could see why he might wish to fold it into the general motorsport forum as the profile and popularity of the series has declined. Ted has been a staunch supporter of the series and he may want to leave it up in the short term as it may assist in keeping the series going. Equally he may want to call time on it.
Although the Ginetta series has full grids and great racing, Ginetta do not have the same following on PH as TVR. I doubt whether Ginetta racing would generate sufficent traffic to have its own forum. There was something unique about the Tuscan Challenge which I suspect will not be recreated.
Whilst I agree with much of what Ratpit posted, what he said was not fact, nor new. NS appears not to be interested in motorsport currently and there is now no motorsport department at the factory as far as I am aware. Perhaps that will change, perhaps it won't. It amuses me that the TVR website still bangs on about the importance of motorsport to the marque - quite ironic really!
We have been saying for some time (years) that the Tuscan Challenge needed to change, with new cars and new profile. The new cars never came - the T350/Sagaris was written into the regs for the last two years, but did not appear. We pleaded with the factory to rebody the existing Tuscans as an interim measure until a new car was available and could be phased in (and more importantly more money could be drawn into the series), but TVR were not interested. The slow decline of the series was inevitable.
However, we are where we are and the important thing is that these magnificent cars continue to race rather than all end up on the road or as track day toys. Whether a Tuscan-only series can be maintained remains to be seen - it is the best format for them as it generates the closest racing. But if not enough people can get out to race then clearly it will need to be combined with something suitable.
The TVRCC series may be the answer, but I don't think many of us have an appetite for racing on treaded tyres with AJP power (even detuned) - particularly those of us who have experienced the full monty on slicks. I can't remember, but I think the MSA doesn't permit different classes in the same race to run one with slicks, one with treaded tyres?
Anyway, given where the series is, do you really think that discussions have not already been held?
It is for Ted to decide whether the series continues to warrant its own forum and I could see why he might wish to fold it into the general motorsport forum as the profile and popularity of the series has declined. Ted has been a staunch supporter of the series and he may want to leave it up in the short term as it may assist in keeping the series going. Equally he may want to call time on it.
Although the Ginetta series has full grids and great racing, Ginetta do not have the same following on PH as TVR. I doubt whether Ginetta racing would generate sufficent traffic to have its own forum. There was something unique about the Tuscan Challenge which I suspect will not be recreated.
The Tuscans started out on road tyres and F1 went from slicks to groved tyres. The Tuscans are now just another club series; it is shame but a fact.
Here are some other "one make" series that were once great!
Rover 220 Cup (the best all round ever!)
Rover 216 Gti Championship
MG Metro turbo Challenge
Ford Fiesta Challenge
Renault Spider Championship
Renault 5 turbo championship
and here are some bad ones!
Saab 900 cup
Proton coupe Cup
VW Vento Cup
Eurocar V8
Here are some other "one make" series that were once great!
Rover 220 Cup (the best all round ever!)
Rover 216 Gti Championship
MG Metro turbo Challenge
Ford Fiesta Challenge
Renault Spider Championship
Renault 5 turbo championship
and here are some bad ones!
Saab 900 cup
Proton coupe Cup
VW Vento Cup
Eurocar V8
jamesc said:
The Tuscans started out on road tyres and F1 went from slicks to groved tyres. The Tuscans are now just another club series; it is shame but a fact.
Yes, agreed - but what have tyres got to do with the Tuscans being a club series?
My point above was that I didnt think you could run some cars with slicks and some cars with treaded tyres in the same race. But it sounds like I'm wrong.
Personally I'm not very keen on racing a detuned Tuscan on road tyres because I'm used to the full power version on slicks.
Anyway - the Tuscan series for 2005 is on slicks - GT spec slicks which should last 2-3 meetings.
I have read some of your recent strange ramblings jamesc. I really can't see where you're coming from. To Petrol Ted, thanks for helping the Tuscans.
Positive support is what we need.
Yes, Tuscans were formed as an initially disastrous foray into 1 make racing in 1989. Peter Wheeler pulled it round and it became the best one make series ever.
After 15 years the championship has run its time at the top of the National tree and TVR is not directly involved any more; so there it is. I don't believe that TVR even have a race department anymore. I started racing Tuscans with grids of up to 48, awesome. The Tuscan is unequalled and yes at 53 I am an old "has been" but, after 25 years of motor racing in many different cars, I believe the Tuscan to be the best of the lot.
We can continue to see Tuscans race, all ideas welcome. There may be a place for Tuscan racing in the TVRCC. I am actively trying to put together a register of cars and owners any help is very welcome.
John Reid is not part of TVR anymore. He is trying to keep racing these cars alive and I am trying to help him. For goodness sake, can't we talk positively about a car that has a huge, maybe unique, place in National Motorsport and at least deserves to remain in a small corner of motor racing.
Positive support is what we need.
Yes, Tuscans were formed as an initially disastrous foray into 1 make racing in 1989. Peter Wheeler pulled it round and it became the best one make series ever.
After 15 years the championship has run its time at the top of the National tree and TVR is not directly involved any more; so there it is. I don't believe that TVR even have a race department anymore. I started racing Tuscans with grids of up to 48, awesome. The Tuscan is unequalled and yes at 53 I am an old "has been" but, after 25 years of motor racing in many different cars, I believe the Tuscan to be the best of the lot.
We can continue to see Tuscans race, all ideas welcome. There may be a place for Tuscan racing in the TVRCC. I am actively trying to put together a register of cars and owners any help is very welcome.
John Reid is not part of TVR anymore. He is trying to keep racing these cars alive and I am trying to help him. For goodness sake, can't we talk positively about a car that has a huge, maybe unique, place in National Motorsport and at least deserves to remain in a small corner of motor racing.
Trackside said:
Top Cats Racing ran a couple of Tuscans in Britcar last with reasonable success. I don't think they would on the pace of the new GT class cars that have been admitted this season but I would have thought it would be a good value series to enter and get some serious tracktime...
You are correct we did run them at most of the EERC events last season and they will return for the odd round or two this year. The times can be very close to the GT's but given the nature of driving the cars and that the TVR races were sprints with 20mins per race generally being the max, running for 2 x 1 hour at the same pace as the GT's would be extremly hardwork and on Tuscan Challenge compound tyres near impossible, the GT rubber is much harder and given the light weight of the Tuscan does take a while to get it warmed up.
The cars are a classic and i think that all motorsport fans should mourn there lose as a TVR supported series but give praise and support to anyone still running the cars. It's always great to see the cars out detuned or otherwise.
cerbone said:
The TVR guru of the past John Read, will no longer be TVR's Tuscan Challenge mentor. Sadly it will now fall and fail as there is no-one else to take his place.
What a load of ill informed tosh.
John Reid (note spelling) is running the Tuscan Challenge for 2005 in association with the BRSCC. TVR now have no connection with the series. Not that this is news - its all been set out on other threads in this forum.
I'm sorry - this sort of crap does irritate me. There will be Tuscans racing at Castle Combe on 30 May. Unless you think you know better Cerbone?
cerbone said:
The TVR guru of the past John Read, will no longer be TVR's Tuscan Challenge mentor. Sadly it will now fall and fail as there is no-one else to take his place.
Damn it Griff2be I had just drafted a balistic response to "Cerbone" and you managed to get in first!!! I fully agree with what you said.
What we need is backing for the Tuscans not people
trying to write an Obituary for Tuscan racing.
I have just lost a great friend and mentor, Gerry Marshall. This guy was Mr TVR and it would be really nice to see a proper tribute to all his efforts in the continuation of TVR racing. Most of us who own pukka
Tuscan racers want to compete and, whilst the championship will never be at the top of national motorsport again, it can still remain, in one guise or another, one of the fastest and most spectacular championships around.
Long live Mr Reid and see you all at Castle Combe.
>> Edited by hui on Thursday 28th April 22:15
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