25k miles per year work car dilemma
Discussion
Funny how these things always happen at the wrong time but such is life.
Recently I bought an 09 plate 997.2 to use as a weekend toy alongside my 118d m sport company car. I've just found out yesterday that as of 5th April the company cars are going back and we are getting a car allowance instead.
The allowance is pitiful and after tax equates to around £250 a month after tax, add this to the tax that I will also save from what I'm paying now and it works out at around £450 per month. I have to buy, insure, service, tax, mot etc out of this figure and the company have specified a criteria with what we must replace them with.
The criteria for car I must replace it with is
Less than 5 years old (must be changed at 5 years so I can't buy anything less than say 4 yr old)
Less then 70,000 miles (same as above, and must be changed at 70,000)
4 seats
I also only get 10p per mile fuel allowance and do 25,000 business miles a year plus 5,000 private. I then have to claim back something from the government to cover my out of pocket expenses against my tax code as you can't run a car on 10p a mile. I'm lead to believe it's tax relief on 45p per mile for first 10,000 then tax relief on 25p for the rest.
So what do I get?
Do I keep the 997.2 and get a used insignia/golf/mondeo type diesel or do I go for something better by selling the 997.2?
My reckoning on budget is £10-13k plus the 997.2 is worth about £37k roughly.
What's my options?
Recently I bought an 09 plate 997.2 to use as a weekend toy alongside my 118d m sport company car. I've just found out yesterday that as of 5th April the company cars are going back and we are getting a car allowance instead.
The allowance is pitiful and after tax equates to around £250 a month after tax, add this to the tax that I will also save from what I'm paying now and it works out at around £450 per month. I have to buy, insure, service, tax, mot etc out of this figure and the company have specified a criteria with what we must replace them with.
The criteria for car I must replace it with is
Less than 5 years old (must be changed at 5 years so I can't buy anything less than say 4 yr old)
Less then 70,000 miles (same as above, and must be changed at 70,000)
4 seats
I also only get 10p per mile fuel allowance and do 25,000 business miles a year plus 5,000 private. I then have to claim back something from the government to cover my out of pocket expenses against my tax code as you can't run a car on 10p a mile. I'm lead to believe it's tax relief on 45p per mile for first 10,000 then tax relief on 25p for the rest.
So what do I get?
Do I keep the 997.2 and get a used insignia/golf/mondeo type diesel or do I go for something better by selling the 997.2?
My reckoning on budget is £10-13k plus the 997.2 is worth about £37k roughly.
What's my options?
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/personal/car...
If I were you I'd go down the personal contract hire option / look into it as the deals they have can be shockingly cheap - you cannot be picky though. They are brand new cars too so worry free.
Or let's say you don't want the hassle of changing the car every few years instead buy brand new run it for 5 years. £450pcm over that timeframe is £27k.
Maybe buy a Golf GTI second hand mid teens
Or what about selling the pork and add that fund plus your ongoing for a used Tesla?
If I were you I'd go down the personal contract hire option / look into it as the deals they have can be shockingly cheap - you cannot be picky though. They are brand new cars too so worry free.
Or let's say you don't want the hassle of changing the car every few years instead buy brand new run it for 5 years. £450pcm over that timeframe is £27k.
Maybe buy a Golf GTI second hand mid teens
Or what about selling the pork and add that fund plus your ongoing for a used Tesla?
I'd tell them that if they expect you to do 25000 miles for their business a year then they need to provide you with a tool to do it. If your car was purely a perk car, then their stance isn't unreasonable, but with 25000 business miles you'll lose money on every mile. Drive to work in you're porsche and sit in your office, and ask them to rent you a car, or provide a pool car for your company mileage. If you didn't have to change at 70k miles, it'd be doable (just)
I have 3 guys on my company fleet that do similar miles to you, and their cars cost us 6-7k a year, but that's buying a year old, keeping 4 years, and binning at 100-120k miles. This is paying 16-17k for a year old 2l diesel Passat or the like.
I have 3 guys on my company fleet that do similar miles to you, and their cars cost us 6-7k a year, but that's buying a year old, keeping 4 years, and binning at 100-120k miles. This is paying 16-17k for a year old 2l diesel Passat or the like.
Edited by wilkos on Saturday 26th March 07:53
Edited by wilkos on Saturday 26th March 08:00
A few mins on auto trader being criteria up to 2 years old and max 20k miles
One which there are countless was the Kia a red 12k miles 14 reg £8k. Run that up until it's 5th birthday and you've succeeded.
Thing is you've been used to the 118d - did you upgrade to that spec or was it the allotted car for your grade? Did you downgrade?
Would 4 years in a Lia Ceed be all that bad? Financially it works
Golds too the 1.2 TSI 1-2 years old 15k miles £10-11k. Reason I chose the Kia was simply the warranty and you need white goods motoring (and it's actually pretty nice)
How about an EV/hybrid? Commute would be free at least
One which there are countless was the Kia a red 12k miles 14 reg £8k. Run that up until it's 5th birthday and you've succeeded.
Thing is you've been used to the 118d - did you upgrade to that spec or was it the allotted car for your grade? Did you downgrade?
Would 4 years in a Lia Ceed be all that bad? Financially it works
Golds too the 1.2 TSI 1-2 years old 15k miles £10-11k. Reason I chose the Kia was simply the warranty and you need white goods motoring (and it's actually pretty nice)
How about an EV/hybrid? Commute would be free at least
In answer to some of the questions, I work from home so don't have an office but I work for BCA so I travel to our auction centres and to car dealers across the Midlands.
When I started working there I was given a budget and I chose the 118d at the time as I'd come from a 320d and it was the closest thing at the time.
Work will provide a basic car and fuel card but as a benefit in kind it is going to hammer me in tax compared to the old scheme (my benefit in kind tax has been worked out at £390 a month net out of my wages) The scheme I was on that was a car ownership scheme where we bought the car from the company at a very low monthly payment which through some loophole wasn't taxable. I don't know for sure but since BCA became a Plc the car scheme may of been looked at as this was a communication that came out by email in the night with a very short time span to sort out.
I'd like to keep the 997 and I've even thought could I get myself in to a 991 but that's out of the question. I also thought diesel panamera but now realise that yes I'd have the Porsche badge but not then fun of the 997.
Also a personal contract hire is out of the equation as id wouldn't want to guarantee my job for 2/3 years. I don't mind taking out a loan as then I have the option to sell and pay off at any time.
Top and bottom of it is I'd like to not pay the car tax for a vehicle I won't use for personal miles so need to make the £500 a month allowance (gross) so about £250 net after tax and student loan somehow work for me
When I started working there I was given a budget and I chose the 118d at the time as I'd come from a 320d and it was the closest thing at the time.
Work will provide a basic car and fuel card but as a benefit in kind it is going to hammer me in tax compared to the old scheme (my benefit in kind tax has been worked out at £390 a month net out of my wages) The scheme I was on that was a car ownership scheme where we bought the car from the company at a very low monthly payment which through some loophole wasn't taxable. I don't know for sure but since BCA became a Plc the car scheme may of been looked at as this was a communication that came out by email in the night with a very short time span to sort out.
I'd like to keep the 997 and I've even thought could I get myself in to a 991 but that's out of the question. I also thought diesel panamera but now realise that yes I'd have the Porsche badge but not then fun of the 997.
Also a personal contract hire is out of the equation as id wouldn't want to guarantee my job for 2/3 years. I don't mind taking out a loan as then I have the option to sell and pay off at any time.
Top and bottom of it is I'd like to not pay the car tax for a vehicle I won't use for personal miles so need to make the £500 a month allowance (gross) so about £250 net after tax and student loan somehow work for me
Ok so you've gone from an ECO (Employee Car ownership) scheme to standard company car and now you'll have to pay more tax?
As such given you've a lovely 911 choose the most basic car with the lowest BIK £/% and go for it. If you commute to the office and leave company car there there is an outside chance you could sign a declaration to HMRC that it is business use only.
How much extra £ tax for the 118d are we talking about v your current situation?
As such given you've a lovely 911 choose the most basic car with the lowest BIK £/% and go for it. If you commute to the office and leave company car there there is an outside chance you could sign a declaration to HMRC that it is business use only.
How much extra £ tax for the 118d are we talking about v your current situation?
Not sure on the exact figures but a tax person I know has worked out that I'd need to earn an extra £4800 a year gross to be in the same position as I was in yesterday keeping the 118d although that will have to get changed at 70,000 miles also and I'm near 60,000 now after which a BMW is no longer a choice on the scheme.
a4ash said:
Not sure on the exact figures but a tax person I know has worked out that I'd need to earn an extra £4800 a year gross to be in the same position as I was in yesterday keeping the 118d although that will have to get changed at 70,000 miles also and I'm near 60,000 now after which a BMW is no longer a choice on the scheme.
http://comcar.co.uk/newcar/companycar/taxcalc/g5calc.cfm?UCID=101572564&source=car&id=158127&capcon=0&clk=1&anncon=0&carAlreadySaved=101572564&forceToDetail=false&USERID=1438227Right so I'm assuming you are a 40% tax rate payer the BIK tax on the car is £1,954 a year - there is BIK tax on a fuel card too but if you pay the company for your personal miles then it's for business use only so no tax.
You say the post tax cash for car is £250 and the PCM BIK tax of this company car is £163 so all up £410pcm fully expensed hassle free £27k car.
Choose a cheaper car and or even the 330e BMW and your tax will be even lower.
End of the day the company is forcing you to move to a company car as it's not viable using a personal car for those distances and they want to ensure your safety v skimped servicing and running tyres to the legal limit.
a4ash said:
Funny how these things always happen at the wrong time but such is life.
Recently I bought an 09 plate 997.2 to use as a weekend toy alongside my 118d m sport company car. I've just found out yesterday that as of 5th April the company cars are going back and we are getting a car allowance instead.
The allowance is pitiful and after tax equates to around £250 a month after tax, add this to the tax that I will also save from what I'm paying now and it works out at around £450 per month. I have to buy, insure, service, tax, mot etc out of this figure and the company have specified a criteria with what we must replace them with.
The criteria for car I must replace it with is
Less than 5 years old (must be changed at 5 years so I can't buy anything less than say 4 yr old)
Less then 70,000 miles (same as above, and must be changed at 70,000)
4 seats
I also only get 10p per mile fuel allowance and do 25,000 business miles a year plus 5,000 private. I then have to claim back something from the government to cover my out of pocket expenses against my tax code as you can't run a car on 10p a mile. I'm lead to believe it's tax relief on 45p per mile for first 10,000 then tax relief on 25p for the rest.
So what do I get?
Do I keep the 997.2 and get a used insignia/golf/mondeo type diesel or do I go for something better by selling the 997.2?
My reckoning on budget is £10-13k plus the 997.2 is worth about £37k roughly.
What's my options?
Have you worked out what the real numbers are to run a like for like equivalent to your company car? Sounds to me like you should be more worried about your company than your car. Recently I bought an 09 plate 997.2 to use as a weekend toy alongside my 118d m sport company car. I've just found out yesterday that as of 5th April the company cars are going back and we are getting a car allowance instead.
The allowance is pitiful and after tax equates to around £250 a month after tax, add this to the tax that I will also save from what I'm paying now and it works out at around £450 per month. I have to buy, insure, service, tax, mot etc out of this figure and the company have specified a criteria with what we must replace them with.
The criteria for car I must replace it with is
Less than 5 years old (must be changed at 5 years so I can't buy anything less than say 4 yr old)
Less then 70,000 miles (same as above, and must be changed at 70,000)
4 seats
I also only get 10p per mile fuel allowance and do 25,000 business miles a year plus 5,000 private. I then have to claim back something from the government to cover my out of pocket expenses against my tax code as you can't run a car on 10p a mile. I'm lead to believe it's tax relief on 45p per mile for first 10,000 then tax relief on 25p for the rest.
So what do I get?
Do I keep the 997.2 and get a used insignia/golf/mondeo type diesel or do I go for something better by selling the 997.2?
My reckoning on budget is £10-13k plus the 997.2 is worth about £37k roughly.
What's my options?
Sounds like a pay cut to me.
You could get into a something like a Citroen DS3 1.5 as an example (plenty of sub £100 a month small cars around). Based on 7p a mile excess charge 30,000 miles would cost you around £150 a month plus the deposit (£1500). (This is from gateway2lease) (Seat Ibiza is similar cost)
But for totally hassle free motoring I would likely plump for the company car option and then ask for a payrise. Just depends what they offer you I guess.
You could get into a something like a Citroen DS3 1.5 as an example (plenty of sub £100 a month small cars around). Based on 7p a mile excess charge 30,000 miles would cost you around £150 a month plus the deposit (£1500). (This is from gateway2lease) (Seat Ibiza is similar cost)
But for totally hassle free motoring I would likely plump for the company car option and then ask for a payrise. Just depends what they offer you I guess.
Sorry i can't help with your dilemma 'mathematically' but i would do whatever allows you to keep the 997.2. I also have a 997 for fundays but i'm self employed and fortunately nobody dictates what i drive to & from work. As it happens i have a diesel Golf '06 plate ... pretty bulletproof! Hope you find the answer. Good luck pal. 
a4ash said:
I've just found out yesterday that as of 5th April the company cars are going back and we are getting a car allowance instead.
Innowaybored said:
But for totally hassle free motoring I would likely plump for the company car option and then ask for a payrise. Just depends what they offer you I guess.
Eh? 
a4ash said:
Work will provide a basic car and fuel card but as a benefit in kind it is going to hammer me in tax compared to the old scheme (my benefit in kind tax has been worked out at £390 a month net out of my wages)
What basic car? £390 a month sounds a lot.
Do not claim personal mileage, and argue the fact that you NEVER use the car for anything other than business mileage, so there should be zero BIK.
Other option is to simply say 'stuff the car allowance, the terms mean it simply can't work, I will take 45p per mile for 10k and then 10p for the other 15k miles."
That gives you £6000 a year in fuel allowance.
Buy a car that does a genuine 50mpg and it will cost you £2300 a year in fuel.
Leaving you with £3700 or £310 a month to buy a car with, with no restrictions on milage or age.
That gives you £6000 a year in fuel allowance.
Buy a car that does a genuine 50mpg and it will cost you £2300 a year in fuel.
Leaving you with £3700 or £310 a month to buy a car with, with no restrictions on milage or age.
80sMatchbox said:
a4ash said:
I've just found out yesterday that as of 5th April the company cars are going back and we are getting a car allowance instead.
Innowaybored said:
But for totally hassle free motoring I would likely plump for the company car option and then ask for a payrise. Just depends what they offer you I guess.
Eh? OP does have the option of a company car as he has stated but he doesn't like the assumed BIK - I've provided a link where he can input any car he chooses to assess the tax implications.
Company has strict rules for opt out people to the point higher miles people would be barking to go for it and they want to ale sure their drivers are the safest possible ie in a co car with company car insurance.
So OP needs to at this mileage level simply go for the cheapest co car he can live with - heck maybe a BMW i3 REX is the answer or a plug in Prius etc you simply have to play the game.
Ok so the new company car scheme gives me a max spend of £17,500 and they still only pay 10p per mile providing I have a diesel car over 1600cc and under 2000cc. They say that I have to claim the rest back from inland revenue.
Yes we are 100% being shafted by the company here and if I had the option to walk into another job then I would but I'm probably stuck there for the time being.
If the company provide a fuel card then you are taxed on the fuel as BIK, even though the company tells the inland revenue can I explain to the inland revenue that I won't use it for personal miles and not pay BIK on the fuel card? I don't think so as I work from home, different if I left the car at an office overnight but I don't have an office base to work from.
Yes we are 100% being shafted by the company here and if I had the option to walk into another job then I would but I'm probably stuck there for the time being.
If the company provide a fuel card then you are taxed on the fuel as BIK, even though the company tells the inland revenue can I explain to the inland revenue that I won't use it for personal miles and not pay BIK on the fuel card? I don't think so as I work from home, different if I left the car at an office overnight but I don't have an office base to work from.
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