Fox hunters - jacket colours, organised how?
Discussion
on tv, when ive seen them trotting off to kill the evil fox, ive recently wondered 3 things...
1. what do their various jacket colours denote, ie- red, blue, green, tweed.
2. how does it proceed rule-wise, like do some charge off while others observe or direct etc, like a kind of rule based setup as is done with team sport etc?
[as theres bound to be some kind of control process]
3. why call it fox hunting when the partipants dont really hunt, but just follow where the dogs lead them?
for isnt it the 'dogs' that do the hunting an killing? dont the humans just sit back an follow on when a scent is picked up?
+ hunters eat their prey - the riders dont!
an dont tell me even the dogs live off the fox kill as 1 fox doesnt have enough meat to feed 3 dozen hounds.
so shouldnt 'fox hunting' be better renamed as 'fox bloodsport'?
[note- this isnt an anti fox hunting topic, but just a 'term correction' topic for what certainly is not hunting an thus shouldnt be called as so]
1. what do their various jacket colours denote, ie- red, blue, green, tweed.
2. how does it proceed rule-wise, like do some charge off while others observe or direct etc, like a kind of rule based setup as is done with team sport etc?
[as theres bound to be some kind of control process]
3. why call it fox hunting when the partipants dont really hunt, but just follow where the dogs lead them?
for isnt it the 'dogs' that do the hunting an killing? dont the humans just sit back an follow on when a scent is picked up?
+ hunters eat their prey - the riders dont!
an dont tell me even the dogs live off the fox kill as 1 fox doesnt have enough meat to feed 3 dozen hounds.
so shouldnt 'fox hunting' be better renamed as 'fox bloodsport'?
[note- this isnt an anti fox hunting topic, but just a 'term correction' topic for what certainly is not hunting an thus shouldnt be called as so]
1.'Pink' or red coats are worn by hunt officials &those persons who have received the coveted 'hunt button' from the Master. Women do not normally wear red coats but may sport a different colour collar.
Whippers-In can sometimes wear green/black or blue jackets. It all depends on the Hunts colours.
Tweed/Black/Blue for the followers is the norm.
The coat colour can also depend on the quarry.
2. Never EVER get infront of the Master, very bad manners. Most people dont have fit enough horses to keep up with the front of the pack. Most just are happy to ride at a slower pace and take their time over the jumps.
3. See above. A lot of the meat comes from the farmers when livestock dies. Hunts also put animals down for free in exhange for the carcass.
4. Oh - there isnt a No4.
Claire
>> Edited by Gaffer on Wednesday 23 February 17:23
Whippers-In can sometimes wear green/black or blue jackets. It all depends on the Hunts colours.
Tweed/Black/Blue for the followers is the norm.
The coat colour can also depend on the quarry.
2. Never EVER get infront of the Master, very bad manners. Most people dont have fit enough horses to keep up with the front of the pack. Most just are happy to ride at a slower pace and take their time over the jumps.
3. See above. A lot of the meat comes from the farmers when livestock dies. Hunts also put animals down for free in exhange for the carcass.
4. Oh - there isnt a No4.
Claire
>> Edited by Gaffer on Wednesday 23 February 17:23
vlc said:
on tv, when ive seen them trotting off to kill the evil fox, ive recently wondered 3 things...
1. what do their various jacket colours denote, ie- red, blue, green, tweed.
2. how does it proceed rule-wise, like do some charge off while others observe or direct etc, like a kind of rule based setup as is done with team sport etc?
[as theres bound to be some kind of control process]
3. why call it fox hunting when the partipants dont really hunt, but just follow where the dogs lead them?
for isnt it the 'dogs' that do the hunting an killing? dont the humans just sit back an follow on when a scent is picked up?
+ hunters eat their prey - the riders dont!
an dont tell me even the dogs live off the fox kill as 1 fox doesnt have enough meat to feed 3 dozen hounds.
so shouldnt 'fox hunting' be better renamed as 'fox bloodsport'?
1. Depends on the hunt entirely. Some are far more formal than others. Some require everyone to wear black/navy with a white stock whereas some will allow navy stock with a tweed jacket. Red are usually for senior members of the hunt (ie Master, Whipper in)
2. Yah, completely. Think of the charge of the light brigade and you're there
Seriously, not far off. You follow the hounds to have it in a nutshell. 
Gaffer said:so what decides who gets the hunt button?
1.'Pink' or red coats are worn by hunt officials &those persons who have received the coveted 'hunt button' from the Master. Women do not normally wear red coats but may sport a different colour collar. Claire
Gaffer said:what are whippers-in?
Whippers-In can sometimes wear green/black or blue jackets. It all depends on the Hunts colours.Claire
an every hunt ive seen on tv still uses the same colours, so what are the 'hunts colours', coz i never seen purple, yellow jackets etc, just the 4 i mentioned?
Gaffer said:but if someone did or worse, would they get banned or something less?
2. Never EVER get infront of the Master, very bad manners. Claire
Gaffer said:uh? but aren't some farmers 'meant' to supply meat like as to supermarket meat counters an butcher hi-street shops? besides livestock is meant to die as thats part of the meat farming business, surely.
3. A lot of the meat comes from the farmers when livestock dies. Hunts also put animals down for free in exhange for the carcass. Claire
an why would hunts put down animals - aren't vets meant to do that, or slaughter house workers - you dont need hunt people for that i assure you, there are more capable people for that, the RSPCA for eg do it better.
vlc said:
uh? but aren't some farmers 'meant' to supply meat like as to supermarket meat counters an butcher hi-street shops? besides livestock is meant to die as thats part of the meat farming business, surely.
an why would hunts put down animals - aren't vets meant to do that, or slaughter house workers - you dont need hunt people for that i assure you, there are more capable people for that, the RSPCA for eg do it better.
I'm not entirely sure you're not taking the pee here but;
a) animals are reared for meat but are slaughtered elsewhere. They don't die of old age and then get taken to the supermarkets. Those not slaughtered as per regulations are not eligible for sale as meat for human consumption. Those that die of unknown cause on the farm, "fallen stock" are not eligible as food, and have to be disposed of which means digging a big hole or paying someone, - or getting the hunt kennel to get rid of it for free.
b) most farm animals are not killed by vets. how much do you thinka call out would be relative to the value of the animal?
c) The RSPCA will not come out to rescue farm animals unless they can secure a prosecution.
vlc said:
so what decides who gets the hunt button?
The Master decides who gets the buttons - usually people who have life memberships to the hunt, or have done something for the hunt that merits it.
what are whippers-in?
an every hunt ive seen on tv still uses the same colours, so what are the 'hunts colours', coz i never seen purple, yellow jackets etc, just the 4 i mentioned?
http://mvhunt.net/foxhunting.htm - this explains all the jobs and terms in hunting.
Gaffer said:
2. Never EVER get infront of the Master, very bad manners. Claire
but if someone did or worse, would they get banned or something less?
No its just extreamly bad manners. It depends on the circumstances, I dont see people getting banned for getting infront of the Master but I suspect it could happen.
uh? but aren't some farmers 'meant' to supply meat like as to supermarket meat counters an butcher hi-street shops? besides livestock is meant to die as thats part of the meat farming business, surely.
an why would hunts put down animals - aren't vets meant to do that, or slaughter house workers - you dont need hunt people for that i assure you, there are more capable people for that, the RSPCA for eg do it better.
A lot of people prefer to get the Hunt to put the horses down or they do that if the vet cannot get there and the animal is in pain. Farmers IIRC send animals that are not fit for human consumption to the hounds. Could be wrong though.
Claire
Seeing as how we are on the subject 
Here are a few pics I took when I went on a hunt over Christmas. I must say there was a very large turnout and we had a great day
Oh and this is Prince Charles in blue, you'll have to trust me on this one
>> Edited by Mrs Fish on Thursday 24th February 08:22
Here are a few pics I took when I went on a hunt over Christmas. I must say there was a very large turnout and we had a great day
Oh and this is Prince Charles in blue, you'll have to trust me on this one
>> Edited by Mrs Fish on Thursday 24th February 08:22
Team colours boys and girls.
1) Master, MFH, Red coat, 4 buttons,white stock,pin fastened horizontally, white breeches, butcher boots, ie. black with brown tops, white hunting whip. Black cap, ribbons hanging at rear.(Some hunts allow male subscribers to wear the same as above, but ribbons must be stitched up on back of hat if you are being correct.May also wear top hat and look like a prat.)
2)Hunt Servants, Huntsman, 1st and 2nd whippers-in. As above but 5 button coats and stock pins fastened vertically.Front of coat, corners are cut square.
3)Followers who subscribe. Black coats,3 black or brass hunt buttons, white stock, pin horizontal, white breeches, black boots, black cap, brown whips, ribbons fastened up, except for farmers who own or farm land within the hunts country. (territory)
4)Non subscribing followers. Youths and maids !!!! Ratcatcher ie. Tweed jacket,self coloured buttons, white stock, pin horizontal, or collar and tie, buff/cream breeches, black or brown boots, cap, silk cap ribbons fastened up.Brown whips (not youths and maids)
5) ratcatcher is traditionally worn during autumn hunting, ie. before the opening meet. MFH usually wears a black coat, only hunt servants wear reds at this time. Hunt horses wear white halters under their bridle at this time too.
Some hunts wear different coloured coats, Berkley are a mustardy yellow, others are blue or green. Hunt subscribers can wear the hunt buttons and coloured collar at the discretion of the master, usually if you are a help to the hunt, own zillions of acres, or give them pots of cash.
Hunts collect the dead, sad and sorry farm animals, humanely slaughter them and dispose of them, usually by incineration, in return for the useful meat to feed the hounds. Recent legislation prevents farmers burying on their land. Correct licensed removal is horrendously expensive, approx £140-00 for a cow or horse and £35-00 for a sheep.£960-00 for an 8 ton skip of licensed animal by-product to be removed and dealt with.
I dont mind what views people hold on any subject, but prefer it if the view is based on facts, not media hyped tosh and emotive clap trap. I hope the above is of some value to those who wanted to know.
1) Master, MFH, Red coat, 4 buttons,white stock,pin fastened horizontally, white breeches, butcher boots, ie. black with brown tops, white hunting whip. Black cap, ribbons hanging at rear.(Some hunts allow male subscribers to wear the same as above, but ribbons must be stitched up on back of hat if you are being correct.May also wear top hat and look like a prat.)
2)Hunt Servants, Huntsman, 1st and 2nd whippers-in. As above but 5 button coats and stock pins fastened vertically.Front of coat, corners are cut square.
3)Followers who subscribe. Black coats,3 black or brass hunt buttons, white stock, pin horizontal, white breeches, black boots, black cap, brown whips, ribbons fastened up, except for farmers who own or farm land within the hunts country. (territory)
4)Non subscribing followers. Youths and maids !!!! Ratcatcher ie. Tweed jacket,self coloured buttons, white stock, pin horizontal, or collar and tie, buff/cream breeches, black or brown boots, cap, silk cap ribbons fastened up.Brown whips (not youths and maids)
5) ratcatcher is traditionally worn during autumn hunting, ie. before the opening meet. MFH usually wears a black coat, only hunt servants wear reds at this time. Hunt horses wear white halters under their bridle at this time too.
Some hunts wear different coloured coats, Berkley are a mustardy yellow, others are blue or green. Hunt subscribers can wear the hunt buttons and coloured collar at the discretion of the master, usually if you are a help to the hunt, own zillions of acres, or give them pots of cash.
Hunts collect the dead, sad and sorry farm animals, humanely slaughter them and dispose of them, usually by incineration, in return for the useful meat to feed the hounds. Recent legislation prevents farmers burying on their land. Correct licensed removal is horrendously expensive, approx £140-00 for a cow or horse and £35-00 for a sheep.£960-00 for an 8 ton skip of licensed animal by-product to be removed and dealt with.
I dont mind what views people hold on any subject, but prefer it if the view is based on facts, not media hyped tosh and emotive clap trap. I hope the above is of some value to those who wanted to know.
How to do fox hunting. A general description.
1) MFH is responsible for the running of the hunt. Organises permission from landowners, farmers, gamekeepers etc., etc.. Arranges list of meets, makes the general plan for the day, with Huntsman.Attempts to control the mounted field on the day of hunting.
2)Huntsman. Looks after hounds fitness and health and kenneling. On a hunting day, he controls the pack, draws the coverts, and assists the hounds if they lose the scent of the quarry. Uses his hunting horn to communicate with hounds, other hunt servants and field(horsey folk)
3) Whipper-in(s) Assist the huntsman in controlling hounds. Mainly keeping stragglers up together and rating (disciplining) the naughty and wayward ones.
Also acts as a "point". ie. goes forward to see where the fox is heading etc., and to "Holloa" a fox away from cover.
4)Field master, sometimes as at 1), sometimes another individual who attempts to keep the mounted field in touch with the hunt, out of the way of the hounds and off ground over which the hunt is not allowed access.
5)The Field.(Mounted) Pays their dosh, follows, roughly, the hunt. Tend to drink, chatter, get in the way, annoy the staff, fall off, get bored, go home. Occasionally some of them see something happen.
6) Foot/car followers. Try to keep up with the hunt from the road. Generally quite knowledgeable, helpful, getting gates etc., Often led by wiley old boys who seem to know where the fox will go, before the fox does. Genuine devoted foxhunters, working folks, decent people.
The Plan.
Hounds meet at 11-00am, at, well, the Meet actually. Often a farmyard, Pub, house. Drinkypoos and a mince pie, then move off.
Master holds mounted field back, (Good Luck!), Huntsman takes hound to a covert (wood) draws it, ie, allows the hounds to spread out and look for a fox. Whips move to the end of the wood, if a fox leaves, he "holloas" (yells) and hounds come, find the scent, and off we go. Hounds run on the line the fox took, "speaking", barking actually, Huntsman blows "Gone away" Mounted field charge off after him.
Whipper-in makes sure all the hounds are coming too, then joins in.
If hounds "check" ie. lose the scent, the Huntsman, "casts them" ie, makes them cover an arc, hoping to regain the scent. If succesful, off we go again. If not, back to another covert and start again.
Sometimes a fox goes down a hole, when it may be left, or if there has been lamb or poultry killing, the landowner may ask the terrier men to kill it, which he does by letting his terriers locate it underground, he digs down to it, and shoots it with a .22pistol. It used to be allowed to force the fox out using terriers, this was recently discouraged by MFH rules, except in certain circumstances.
Most often fox gets clean away, if a bit breathless, sometimes he gets caught and killed by hounds, about 1 in 7 get caught on average.
Pack up, go home, Hunt servants now have hours of work feeding hounds, treating any cuts or knocks etc. Mounted field have horses to attend to, MFH goes home and gets P***ed. Grooms do horses. All go to bed early, knackered.
1) MFH is responsible for the running of the hunt. Organises permission from landowners, farmers, gamekeepers etc., etc.. Arranges list of meets, makes the general plan for the day, with Huntsman.Attempts to control the mounted field on the day of hunting.
2)Huntsman. Looks after hounds fitness and health and kenneling. On a hunting day, he controls the pack, draws the coverts, and assists the hounds if they lose the scent of the quarry. Uses his hunting horn to communicate with hounds, other hunt servants and field(horsey folk)
3) Whipper-in(s) Assist the huntsman in controlling hounds. Mainly keeping stragglers up together and rating (disciplining) the naughty and wayward ones.
Also acts as a "point". ie. goes forward to see where the fox is heading etc., and to "Holloa" a fox away from cover.
4)Field master, sometimes as at 1), sometimes another individual who attempts to keep the mounted field in touch with the hunt, out of the way of the hounds and off ground over which the hunt is not allowed access.
5)The Field.(Mounted) Pays their dosh, follows, roughly, the hunt. Tend to drink, chatter, get in the way, annoy the staff, fall off, get bored, go home. Occasionally some of them see something happen.
6) Foot/car followers. Try to keep up with the hunt from the road. Generally quite knowledgeable, helpful, getting gates etc., Often led by wiley old boys who seem to know where the fox will go, before the fox does. Genuine devoted foxhunters, working folks, decent people.
The Plan.
Hounds meet at 11-00am, at, well, the Meet actually. Often a farmyard, Pub, house. Drinkypoos and a mince pie, then move off.
Master holds mounted field back, (Good Luck!), Huntsman takes hound to a covert (wood) draws it, ie, allows the hounds to spread out and look for a fox. Whips move to the end of the wood, if a fox leaves, he "holloas" (yells) and hounds come, find the scent, and off we go. Hounds run on the line the fox took, "speaking", barking actually, Huntsman blows "Gone away" Mounted field charge off after him.
Whipper-in makes sure all the hounds are coming too, then joins in.
If hounds "check" ie. lose the scent, the Huntsman, "casts them" ie, makes them cover an arc, hoping to regain the scent. If succesful, off we go again. If not, back to another covert and start again.
Sometimes a fox goes down a hole, when it may be left, or if there has been lamb or poultry killing, the landowner may ask the terrier men to kill it, which he does by letting his terriers locate it underground, he digs down to it, and shoots it with a .22pistol. It used to be allowed to force the fox out using terriers, this was recently discouraged by MFH rules, except in certain circumstances.
Most often fox gets clean away, if a bit breathless, sometimes he gets caught and killed by hounds, about 1 in 7 get caught on average.
Pack up, go home, Hunt servants now have hours of work feeding hounds, treating any cuts or knocks etc. Mounted field have horses to attend to, MFH goes home and gets P***ed. Grooms do horses. All go to bed early, knackered.
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