"Clinky, Clanky" noise doing my head in...
Discussion
Grrrr!
Running an errand yesterday, I suffered (another, second day in a row) a p**cture. Approaching a roundabout, under braking as I needed to give way to a turning car, and the road looked clear of debris and (unusually) in good repair. Then "pfffffffffffffft!" - all of the air escapes from it's penal servitude within my front tube.
Damn! So I strip the tyre and tube, check for intrusive debris, find nothing. Check the tube, and the perforation is larger than expected, and on the 'rim side' of the tube, not the 'tyre side'. Check rim tape, and after 18 years it's hardened, lost it's elasticity, and split at several spoke nipple heads.
Fortunately, I find myself less than 500 feet from the front door of my local bike shop, so I abandon the errand in order to get some new tape, repair the puncture, and have a chinwag. I carried the front wheel to the shop, and up until the point where it p**ctured, the bike was running silently.
Now the point of the post:
Almost as soon as I left the shop, an irritating "clinky, clanky" noise plagued my ride home. I tried the simple stuff first, but the magnet isn't fowling the cadence/speed sensor. I've checked the integrity of my spokes (both wheels) and checked them again. I tried coasting, but the noise is present when pedaling and when coasting both.
So it's rotational? Most likely, I think. But not crank related. And it sounds like it's at the front end (I have significant hearing loss, so unlikely to clearly hear a noise emanating from behind me). So what is it? And why just "appear" after a p**cture?
My most likely suspect is the hub bearings. Followed by the (threaded) headset. I'm going to strip the hub this morning, but was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions, preferably "experience based" suggestions. Hopefully it isn't the warning sound of fatigued fork legs about to part company with the crown...
Oh, it's a Falcon Pro-Line 'road' bike from the 1990s, for all the difference it makes, and I have to confess that it sees more (relatively gentle) off-road riding than tarmac these days...
I want to fix this myself, if possible, as the LBS staff often roll their eyes at the old warhorse, in all it's bodged glory. I don't want to go in and have to confess to being a 'bike abuser', lest I end up on a LBS blacklist, or having to sign a register for years on end...
Running an errand yesterday, I suffered (another, second day in a row) a p**cture. Approaching a roundabout, under braking as I needed to give way to a turning car, and the road looked clear of debris and (unusually) in good repair. Then "pfffffffffffffft!" - all of the air escapes from it's penal servitude within my front tube.
Damn! So I strip the tyre and tube, check for intrusive debris, find nothing. Check the tube, and the perforation is larger than expected, and on the 'rim side' of the tube, not the 'tyre side'. Check rim tape, and after 18 years it's hardened, lost it's elasticity, and split at several spoke nipple heads.
Fortunately, I find myself less than 500 feet from the front door of my local bike shop, so I abandon the errand in order to get some new tape, repair the puncture, and have a chinwag. I carried the front wheel to the shop, and up until the point where it p**ctured, the bike was running silently.
Now the point of the post:
Almost as soon as I left the shop, an irritating "clinky, clanky" noise plagued my ride home. I tried the simple stuff first, but the magnet isn't fowling the cadence/speed sensor. I've checked the integrity of my spokes (both wheels) and checked them again. I tried coasting, but the noise is present when pedaling and when coasting both.
So it's rotational? Most likely, I think. But not crank related. And it sounds like it's at the front end (I have significant hearing loss, so unlikely to clearly hear a noise emanating from behind me). So what is it? And why just "appear" after a p**cture?
My most likely suspect is the hub bearings. Followed by the (threaded) headset. I'm going to strip the hub this morning, but was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions, preferably "experience based" suggestions. Hopefully it isn't the warning sound of fatigued fork legs about to part company with the crown...
Oh, it's a Falcon Pro-Line 'road' bike from the 1990s, for all the difference it makes, and I have to confess that it sees more (relatively gentle) off-road riding than tarmac these days...
I want to fix this myself, if possible, as the LBS staff often roll their eyes at the old warhorse, in all it's bodged glory. I don't want to go in and have to confess to being a 'bike abuser', lest I end up on a LBS blacklist, or having to sign a register for years on end...
daddy cool said:
Assuming its related to the front wheel (the only thing that was touched in yesterdays hilarity) could you not pop it on your posh bike just to confirm its definitely coming from there?
DC, a genius idea, assuming front axle standards haven't changed. I'm gonna swap the wheels over and ride the old wheel on the new bike and vice-versa, just to be scientific about it.Cheers!
( #whydidntithinkofthat )
Fluffsri said:
Lock nut on the tube rattling?
I'm fairly certain it's not that. It's like a 'tumbling' sound, almost like a coin in with the laundry in a washing machine. And intermittent. No a constant "clink, clank" on every revolution, nor is it "always over a bump" or the like. Seemingly random spacing between the noise occurring, no obvious connection with "loading" any bearings. It's got me puzzled (at least until I try DC's suggestion about swapping wheels to isolate the cause a bit more).
MiseryStreak said:
1.Headset
2.Chainring bolts
3.Internal cable routing? If so good luck resolving that one!
From your suggestions, the only "possible" is the (threaded) headset. No chainring bolts (low-rent riveted chainset), and certainly no internal cabling on a bike of it's age. In fact the gear cables have no outers, save for the 'loop' for the rear derailleur.2.Chainring bolts
3.Internal cable routing? If so good luck resolving that one!
I'm off out now to do the wheel swap thing...
Right. An update (of sorts) and replies to the last three posts...
TMM - The headset ought to be OK. It was swapped only a few hundred miles ago, and the one that came out was the original one, that had lasted near enough 18 years, and many thousands of miles. But I'll bear it in mind when I get the wheels back on (hopefully tomorrow).
CC - First thing I did this morning was put the bike in the workstand, and spun the front wheel. And yes, it made the same noise as when riding it, only a bit less frequently/regularly when the weight was off it.
RXJR - Always push down when fastening the QR - it's the only way to ensure that it always sits right between the brakes. It has MASSIVE rims compared to my last road bike. The Merida's rims sit completely INSIDE these old Rigida rims. 20mm internal width, more than 25mm external. My 2010 Merida had 19.5mm external width, this years Trek has 24mm external width.
...and the update? Well I've been swearing at the blasted thing on and off all day. Up on the stand, I spun the wheels up, and decided that both hubs could do with a service. Off with the rear wheel, because it was also p**ctured. Then, joy of joys, it turns out that it doesn't have a freewheel, as I'd incorrectly remembered, but it's a cassette! Yay! Because this means more choice of gear ratios now, rather than just a 14-28, take it or leave it, if it was a freewheel.
Anyway. Off with the cassette, out with the axle, and in with the degreaser to clean out the cups. Now for some fresh bearings, so off to the shop, with the wheel, to buy bearings enough for both hubs, and to get the rim re-taped after yesterdays fun and games with the front wheel. While I was there, I got them to remove the 105 10-speed cassette from the old Merida wheels, as my lock-ring tool just wouldn't grip enough to loosen it off.
Then it was home, for a shower and off to hospital to get my new, more powerful hearing aid fitted and fettled. Then onto Pedal Heaven in Fleet for a new 7-speed cassette (a far more sympathetic 11-28 to replace the 'man test' 13-23 that was on there from new). Back home, I re-greased the cups (generously, perhaps too generously - we shall see) and reassembled the axle, before getting summoned by the wife to drive her home, and cooked our dinner. Too dark now to bugger about with the bike, so tomorrow I'll nip up the cone nuts, fit the new cassette, and strip and rebuild the front wheel bearings. Then the new (well, they were taken off the Merida in 2010) Vittoria Rubino 23c tyres can go on to replace the peeling Conti GP 4 Seasons 25c tyres that have finally (rear one at least) given up the ghost. Fit the new KMC chain I bought this afternoon and I'll be back on the road again. Hopefully noise-free.
Next up are some 'proper' tyres for the winter. I've got my eye on some Challenge Strada Bianca 700 x 30c 'gravel racing' tyres, or some Challenge Grifo 700 x 33c 'cyclocross' tyres. Both are hand made Italian "open tubulars", with the all-important period look amber/tan walls. I'm erring on the side of the 30c Strada Biancas, with one eye on mudguard clearance. Which should round off my spending on this bike for now, with a set of full length guards with mudflaps. The only fly in the ointment might be the chainset, if it's worn to excess and doesn't "play nice" with the new chain.
The only nagging question that's arisen from today is "will my Shimano Exage 300 rear derailleur cope with the extra 5 teeth on the new cassette over and above the original cassette's 23 teeth lowest gear, and will I need to adjust the length of the chain to compensate?"
Thanks for all the replies so far. Plenty of food for thought amongst that little lot, and I hope that the hubs turn out to be the true source of the noise. The front one in particular felt really "gritty" when spun in the stand, so even if the noise is still there, the hub service was a job that needed doing anyway, along with the new chain and cassette.
Oh, and one last thing! Long-drop brake calipers, so that the Ultegra 6700 bodge-up that's on there can be replaced by something that fits properly, and doesn't need the bodging to make it work.
Jeez. Running an old bike was supposed to be a money-saver. The costs on this one are starting to mount up a bit...
TMM - The headset ought to be OK. It was swapped only a few hundred miles ago, and the one that came out was the original one, that had lasted near enough 18 years, and many thousands of miles. But I'll bear it in mind when I get the wheels back on (hopefully tomorrow).
CC - First thing I did this morning was put the bike in the workstand, and spun the front wheel. And yes, it made the same noise as when riding it, only a bit less frequently/regularly when the weight was off it.
RXJR - Always push down when fastening the QR - it's the only way to ensure that it always sits right between the brakes. It has MASSIVE rims compared to my last road bike. The Merida's rims sit completely INSIDE these old Rigida rims. 20mm internal width, more than 25mm external. My 2010 Merida had 19.5mm external width, this years Trek has 24mm external width.
...and the update? Well I've been swearing at the blasted thing on and off all day. Up on the stand, I spun the wheels up, and decided that both hubs could do with a service. Off with the rear wheel, because it was also p**ctured. Then, joy of joys, it turns out that it doesn't have a freewheel, as I'd incorrectly remembered, but it's a cassette! Yay! Because this means more choice of gear ratios now, rather than just a 14-28, take it or leave it, if it was a freewheel.
Anyway. Off with the cassette, out with the axle, and in with the degreaser to clean out the cups. Now for some fresh bearings, so off to the shop, with the wheel, to buy bearings enough for both hubs, and to get the rim re-taped after yesterdays fun and games with the front wheel. While I was there, I got them to remove the 105 10-speed cassette from the old Merida wheels, as my lock-ring tool just wouldn't grip enough to loosen it off.
Then it was home, for a shower and off to hospital to get my new, more powerful hearing aid fitted and fettled. Then onto Pedal Heaven in Fleet for a new 7-speed cassette (a far more sympathetic 11-28 to replace the 'man test' 13-23 that was on there from new). Back home, I re-greased the cups (generously, perhaps too generously - we shall see) and reassembled the axle, before getting summoned by the wife to drive her home, and cooked our dinner. Too dark now to bugger about with the bike, so tomorrow I'll nip up the cone nuts, fit the new cassette, and strip and rebuild the front wheel bearings. Then the new (well, they were taken off the Merida in 2010) Vittoria Rubino 23c tyres can go on to replace the peeling Conti GP 4 Seasons 25c tyres that have finally (rear one at least) given up the ghost. Fit the new KMC chain I bought this afternoon and I'll be back on the road again. Hopefully noise-free.
Next up are some 'proper' tyres for the winter. I've got my eye on some Challenge Strada Bianca 700 x 30c 'gravel racing' tyres, or some Challenge Grifo 700 x 33c 'cyclocross' tyres. Both are hand made Italian "open tubulars", with the all-important period look amber/tan walls. I'm erring on the side of the 30c Strada Biancas, with one eye on mudguard clearance. Which should round off my spending on this bike for now, with a set of full length guards with mudflaps. The only fly in the ointment might be the chainset, if it's worn to excess and doesn't "play nice" with the new chain.
The only nagging question that's arisen from today is "will my Shimano Exage 300 rear derailleur cope with the extra 5 teeth on the new cassette over and above the original cassette's 23 teeth lowest gear, and will I need to adjust the length of the chain to compensate?"
Thanks for all the replies so far. Plenty of food for thought amongst that little lot, and I hope that the hubs turn out to be the true source of the noise. The front one in particular felt really "gritty" when spun in the stand, so even if the noise is still there, the hub service was a job that needed doing anyway, along with the new chain and cassette.
Oh, and one last thing! Long-drop brake calipers, so that the Ultegra 6700 bodge-up that's on there can be replaced by something that fits properly, and doesn't need the bodging to make it work.
Jeez. Running an old bike was supposed to be a money-saver. The costs on this one are starting to mount up a bit...
Edited by yellowjack on Friday 16th October 23:08
yellowjack said:
The only nagging question that's arisen from today is "will my Shimano Exage 300 rear derailleur cope with the extra 5 teeth on the new cassette over and above the original cassette's 23 teeth lowest gear, and will I need to adjust the length of the chain to compensate?"
Oh, and one last thing! Long-drop brake calipers, so that the Ultegra 6700 bodge-up that's on there can be replaced by something that fits properly, and doesn't need the bodging to make it work.
Current short cage Shimano mechs can handle up to 28 tooth cassettes. You'll need to adjust the limiter screw quite a bit though and add a few more links to your chain.Oh, and one last thing! Long-drop brake calipers, so that the Ultegra 6700 bodge-up that's on there can be replaced by something that fits properly, and doesn't need the bodging to make it work.
Edited by yellowjack on Friday 16th October 23:08
Long drop brakes ... BR-650s are the ones you want if you want 'Ultegra level' ones to replace yours. Cheaper are 561s like my Defy came with - wasn't that impressed though and they only lasted a month on the bike.
Gren said:
Long drop brakes ... BR-650s are the ones you want if you want 'Ultegra level' ones to replace yours. Cheaper are 561s like my Defy came with - wasn't that impressed though and they only lasted a month on the bike.
Word on the web when I got my 'Tiagra level' BR451s was that they are exactly the same as the 650s bar the finish, being matt black rather than shiny grey. And they were around half price. Couldn't see the value in spending double on 650s. Unless, perhaps, if the rest of a bike has shiny grey stuff and the calipers absolutely *have* to match.
Edit - I wrote 450 when I should have written 451. Anyway, I found the invoice for them in my inbox and I paid £18 each for them, compared to £35 Wiggle want for the shiny grey ones...
Edited by SixPotBelly on Saturday 17th October 09:46
Right. Rear wheel rebuilt, and cones adjusted. I might need to back them off a couple of thousandths of an inch, but then they'll only need nipping back up again when things settle in.
The new 11-28t cassette is on, the Vittoria Rubino tyre fitted.
Then, a series of interruptions, and errands, and making the dinner, interspersed with brief flurries of spanner action and (yet another) trip to the bike shop for a new axle. This disjointed day has ended with the front hub stripped, awaiting rebuild. It's taking far too long.
The front cones were beyond salvation. pitted badly, and with very little grease in them anyway. A new hollow axle was duly bought, along with a cassette lockring tool for QR axles (the one with the long central 'pin'). I promised myself I'd have this all done and dusted today, but that idea fell by the wayside about mid-afternoon.
I'm fairly confident that the mech will work with this larger cassette, but might need the 'B' adjuster screw to push the mech back a little. Then I'll consult Mr Zinn, and work out which of his four methods to use to determine the correct new chain length.
As for the long-drop brakes? The BR-451s sound like just the ticket. The Ultegra 6700 calipers currently on there are a bodge. The original no-name calipers were next to useless, the pivots were loose and braking was all over the place. But they were black, so the BR-451 calipers will be in the spirit of "keeping it as original as possible".
Tweeks are showing the BR-R650s at £30.79 each, and the BR-R451s at £18.74 each, and the only discernible difference is the quick-flip wheel release - the expensive calipers have an alloy lever, on the plebs' version it's a resin lever. Alternatively, Wiggle have Tektro R559 'extra long' (53mm to 73mm drop) brakes, which appear to be sold as a pair, for £36.51, in either black or silver. I'll have a think about it, rather than rushing into a decision. I'd like to keep things Shimano, I think, but I'm undecided on the colour.
And tyres! Wiggle have a good price on all their "Challenge" brand tyres, but they're (almost) all out of stock. 23mm tyres from the spares pile going on for now. Fingers crossed!
Edit: And mudguards! It'll need a new set of guards, preferably with rubber mudflaps, so that it looks the part, and is a nice place to be through the winter.
The new 11-28t cassette is on, the Vittoria Rubino tyre fitted.
Then, a series of interruptions, and errands, and making the dinner, interspersed with brief flurries of spanner action and (yet another) trip to the bike shop for a new axle. This disjointed day has ended with the front hub stripped, awaiting rebuild. It's taking far too long.
The front cones were beyond salvation. pitted badly, and with very little grease in them anyway. A new hollow axle was duly bought, along with a cassette lockring tool for QR axles (the one with the long central 'pin'). I promised myself I'd have this all done and dusted today, but that idea fell by the wayside about mid-afternoon.
I'm fairly confident that the mech will work with this larger cassette, but might need the 'B' adjuster screw to push the mech back a little. Then I'll consult Mr Zinn, and work out which of his four methods to use to determine the correct new chain length.
As for the long-drop brakes? The BR-451s sound like just the ticket. The Ultegra 6700 calipers currently on there are a bodge. The original no-name calipers were next to useless, the pivots were loose and braking was all over the place. But they were black, so the BR-451 calipers will be in the spirit of "keeping it as original as possible".
Tweeks are showing the BR-R650s at £30.79 each, and the BR-R451s at £18.74 each, and the only discernible difference is the quick-flip wheel release - the expensive calipers have an alloy lever, on the plebs' version it's a resin lever. Alternatively, Wiggle have Tektro R559 'extra long' (53mm to 73mm drop) brakes, which appear to be sold as a pair, for £36.51, in either black or silver. I'll have a think about it, rather than rushing into a decision. I'd like to keep things Shimano, I think, but I'm undecided on the colour.
And tyres! Wiggle have a good price on all their "Challenge" brand tyres, but they're (almost) all out of stock. 23mm tyres from the spares pile going on for now. Fingers crossed!
Edit: And mudguards! It'll need a new set of guards, preferably with rubber mudflaps, so that it looks the part, and is a nice place to be through the winter.
Edited by yellowjack on Saturday 17th October 20:07
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