Watch servicing , why do you do it
Discussion
I've read on a few forms where people have sent watches that are running fine in for a service , like its a car
I'm currently wearing my late grandfathers 30 year service gold watch given to him in 1969 so 46 years old and it keeps perfect time
Can somebody explain why people pay £300+ to get watches serviced when there's nothing wrong with them
I'm currently wearing my late grandfathers 30 year service gold watch given to him in 1969 so 46 years old and it keeps perfect time
Can somebody explain why people pay £300+ to get watches serviced when there's nothing wrong with them
Watches have moving parts which friction causes to wear when the oils cease to function properly. I'm a layperson so that's my humble guess but there are proper watch people here who'll answer you accurately.
I'm also guessing that before selling a watch on, without papers, some people have them serviced to facilitate a sale and also to have some sort of authenticating paperwork
I'm also guessing that before selling a watch on, without papers, some people have them serviced to facilitate a sale and also to have some sort of authenticating paperwork
Edited by ADP68 on Monday 17th August 09:11
I don't bother, personally. I'd only send a watch in for a service if it completely stops, dramatically loses/gains time, or I managed to damage the watch in some way. I'm sure lots of people do it for peace of mind, preventative measures, because they want an unmarked/'as new' finish, as well as selling on ...
However I reckon people with large collections might be a little more relaxed when it comes to servicing. I'd hate to think of the costs for 10-20+ watches. The standard Tag/Omega/Rolex £300-400 is enough, let alone JLC's £750+, or AP's £1K+ servicing costs!
That said, independents seem to be the way to go, providing said independents can acquire the parts required!
However I reckon people with large collections might be a little more relaxed when it comes to servicing. I'd hate to think of the costs for 10-20+ watches. The standard Tag/Omega/Rolex £300-400 is enough, let alone JLC's £750+, or AP's £1K+ servicing costs!
That said, independents seem to be the way to go, providing said independents can acquire the parts required!
ADP68 said:
Watches have moving parts which friction causes to wear when the oils cease to function properly.
The lubricants only last so many years, so benefit from being changed when the oils are past their best.I once waited too many years before servicing a watch. It was a costly mistake, so I now prefer preventative maintenance.
Not all watches cost £300+
to service (e.g. Oris charges £120 for a full service). Also, provided you keep the paperwork, you'll likely recoup some of the service costs if you sell the watch. Buying a watch can be like buying a car, in that depreciation is the main cost of ownership. Servicing costs can be partially offset by reduced depreciation.It's part preventative maintenance and part received wisdom handed down from times when it was more critical than it should be nowadays. unlike car companies, who are happy to stretch service intervals as new technology allows, the watch world is generally happy to keep people paying for 1950s service intervals with 2000s technology. Cynically, at £300+ a time that's perhaps not surprising.
On a practical level oils do deteriorate with age, but modern synthetics are a lot more stable than than the historic fish, vegetable and mineral types. When they do fail they also tend not to create the highly acidic residues that the old oils did.
The effects of delayed servicing on a watch are also very unpredictable. I've serviced plenty over the years that haven't been touched for decades and they've been fine, with no detectable wear (or, at least, no wear that matters) but I've also seen watches that are only a few years over the recommended interval with serious and expensive wear.
One thing to note, though, is that there will [ii]always[/i] be advanced warning of problems if you pay attention to changes in how a watch behaves. Failing lubrication will have one or more of these effects:
Changes in timekeeping. Daily average may not change much but positional performance will. This will show up as greater variations overnight with the watch laid in different positions.
Loss of power reserve. As friction increases the watch becomes unable to use the power at the end of the mainspring's wind. So it'll stop before fully unwinding, giving a shorter running time on a full wind (or off the wrist if an automatic). On automatics it can also affect the efficiency of the auto mech, which will prevent the watch from fully winding in normal use.
"Tight" or "loose" handsetting. There's a "clutch" between the hands and the movement (so you can turn the hands for setting without braking other bits). As lubrication fails, the friction of that clutch will alter - usually going tight but sometimes loosening. That shows up as a change in the "feel" when you set the hands and is a sure sign that you should have it checked - sooner or later a seized cannon pinion (the usual form of clutch) will do a hell of a lot of damage when you try to set the time. And it will do that damage instantly - a cannon pinion can go from "a little tight" to completely seized within 2 or 3 turns of the crown.
Incidentally, this one applies to quartz movements just as much, if not more, than it does to mechanicals. There are a couple of good quality quartz movements out there where it's not unusual to see one of the wheels cracked in half because the handsetting got too tight!
Tight or "rough" manual winding. Again, a good sign that something needs checking. Loss of lubrication on the winding work can cause rapid wear and expensive replacements (including the main movement plate) to correct properly.
Given that most watch owners (like most drivers) don't pay that level of attention to their watches, routine servicing is the "safe" way to go unless you consider the watch disposable. Even then, the makers' schedules are usually on the far-too-safe side
On a practical level oils do deteriorate with age, but modern synthetics are a lot more stable than than the historic fish, vegetable and mineral types. When they do fail they also tend not to create the highly acidic residues that the old oils did.
The effects of delayed servicing on a watch are also very unpredictable. I've serviced plenty over the years that haven't been touched for decades and they've been fine, with no detectable wear (or, at least, no wear that matters) but I've also seen watches that are only a few years over the recommended interval with serious and expensive wear.
One thing to note, though, is that there will [ii]always[/i] be advanced warning of problems if you pay attention to changes in how a watch behaves. Failing lubrication will have one or more of these effects:
Changes in timekeeping. Daily average may not change much but positional performance will. This will show up as greater variations overnight with the watch laid in different positions.
Loss of power reserve. As friction increases the watch becomes unable to use the power at the end of the mainspring's wind. So it'll stop before fully unwinding, giving a shorter running time on a full wind (or off the wrist if an automatic). On automatics it can also affect the efficiency of the auto mech, which will prevent the watch from fully winding in normal use.
"Tight" or "loose" handsetting. There's a "clutch" between the hands and the movement (so you can turn the hands for setting without braking other bits). As lubrication fails, the friction of that clutch will alter - usually going tight but sometimes loosening. That shows up as a change in the "feel" when you set the hands and is a sure sign that you should have it checked - sooner or later a seized cannon pinion (the usual form of clutch) will do a hell of a lot of damage when you try to set the time. And it will do that damage instantly - a cannon pinion can go from "a little tight" to completely seized within 2 or 3 turns of the crown.
Incidentally, this one applies to quartz movements just as much, if not more, than it does to mechanicals. There are a couple of good quality quartz movements out there where it's not unusual to see one of the wheels cracked in half because the handsetting got too tight!
Tight or "rough" manual winding. Again, a good sign that something needs checking. Loss of lubrication on the winding work can cause rapid wear and expensive replacements (including the main movement plate) to correct properly.
Given that most watch owners (like most drivers) don't pay that level of attention to their watches, routine servicing is the "safe" way to go unless you consider the watch disposable. Even then, the makers' schedules are usually on the far-too-safe side
Edited by Variomatic on Monday 17th August 21:04
Variomatic said:
It's part preventative maintenance and part received wisdom handed down from times when it was more critical than it should be nowadays. unlike car companies, who are happy to stretch service intervals as new technology allows, the watch world is generally happy to keep people paying for 1950s service intervals with 2000s technology. Cynically, at £300+ a time that's perhaps not surprising.
On a practical level oils do deteriorate with age, but modern synthetics are a lot more stable than than the historic fish, vegetable and mineral types. When they do fail they also tend not to create the highly acidic residues that the old oils did.
The effects of delayed servicing on a watch are also very unpredictable. I've serviced plenty over the years that haven't been touched for decades and they've been fine, with no detectable wear (or, at least, no wear that matters) but I've also seen watches that are only a few years over the recommended interval with serious and expensive wear.
One thing to note, though, is that there will [ii]always[/i] be advanced warning of problems if you pay attention to changes in how a watch behaves. Failing lubrication will have one or more of these effects:
Changes in timekeeping. Daily average may not change much but positional performance will. This will show up as greater variations overnight with the watch laid in different positions.
Loss of power reserve. As friction increases the watch becomes unable to use the power at the end of the mainspring's wind. So it'll stop before fully unwinding, giving a shorter running time on a full wind (or off the wrist if an automatic). On automatics it can also affect the efficiency of the auto mech, which will prevent the watch from fully winding in normal use.
"Tight" or "loose" handsetting. There's a "clutch" between the hands and the movement (so you can turn the hands for setting without braking other bits). As lubrication fails, the friction of that clutch will alter - usually going tight but sometimes loosening. That shows up as a change in the "feel" when you set the hands and is a sure sign that you should have it checked - sooner or later a seized cannon pinion (the usual form of clutch) will do a hell of a lot of damage when you try to set the time. And it will do that damage instantly. Incidentally, this one applies to quartz movements just as much, if not more, than it does to mechanicals. There are a couple of good quality quartz movements out there where it's not unusual to see one of the wheels cracked in half because the handsetting got too tight!
Tight or "rough" manual winding. Again, a good sign that something needs checking. Loss of lubrication on the winding work can cause rapid wear and expensive replacements (including the main movement plate) to correct properly.
Given that most watch owners (like most drivers) don't pay that level of attention to their watches, routine servicing is the "safe" way to go unless you consider the watch disposable. Even then, the makers' schedules are usually on the far-too-safe side
I've only ever seen you give true and impartial advice; a credit to your profession.On a practical level oils do deteriorate with age, but modern synthetics are a lot more stable than than the historic fish, vegetable and mineral types. When they do fail they also tend not to create the highly acidic residues that the old oils did.
The effects of delayed servicing on a watch are also very unpredictable. I've serviced plenty over the years that haven't been touched for decades and they've been fine, with no detectable wear (or, at least, no wear that matters) but I've also seen watches that are only a few years over the recommended interval with serious and expensive wear.
One thing to note, though, is that there will [ii]always[/i] be advanced warning of problems if you pay attention to changes in how a watch behaves. Failing lubrication will have one or more of these effects:
Changes in timekeeping. Daily average may not change much but positional performance will. This will show up as greater variations overnight with the watch laid in different positions.
Loss of power reserve. As friction increases the watch becomes unable to use the power at the end of the mainspring's wind. So it'll stop before fully unwinding, giving a shorter running time on a full wind (or off the wrist if an automatic). On automatics it can also affect the efficiency of the auto mech, which will prevent the watch from fully winding in normal use.
"Tight" or "loose" handsetting. There's a "clutch" between the hands and the movement (so you can turn the hands for setting without braking other bits). As lubrication fails, the friction of that clutch will alter - usually going tight but sometimes loosening. That shows up as a change in the "feel" when you set the hands and is a sure sign that you should have it checked - sooner or later a seized cannon pinion (the usual form of clutch) will do a hell of a lot of damage when you try to set the time. And it will do that damage instantly. Incidentally, this one applies to quartz movements just as much, if not more, than it does to mechanicals. There are a couple of good quality quartz movements out there where it's not unusual to see one of the wheels cracked in half because the handsetting got too tight!
Tight or "rough" manual winding. Again, a good sign that something needs checking. Loss of lubrication on the winding work can cause rapid wear and expensive replacements (including the main movement plate) to correct properly.
Given that most watch owners (like most drivers) don't pay that level of attention to their watches, routine servicing is the "safe" way to go unless you consider the watch disposable. Even then, the makers' schedules are usually on the far-too-safe side
Thanks.
wack said:
I've read on a few forms where people have sent watches that are running fine in for a service , like its a car
I'm currently wearing my late grandfathers 30 year service gold watch given to him in 1969 so 46 years old and it keeps perfect time
Can somebody explain why people pay £300+ to get watches serviced when there's nothing wrong with them
Car - good analogy. Don't service it and when it finally stops it's fI'm currently wearing my late grandfathers 30 year service gold watch given to him in 1969 so 46 years old and it keeps perfect time
Can somebody explain why people pay £300+ to get watches serviced when there's nothing wrong with them
ked.This is a spectacularly foolish post.
GC8 said:
Car - good analogy. Don't service it and when it finally stops it's fked.
This is a spectacularly foolish post.
Reallyked.This is a spectacularly foolish post.
True story
Guy at work had a fiesta, came in and spoke to the maintenance guy about a drip of oil under it
Maintenance guy goes and looks to find his oil filter has rusted through
When did you last have it serviced
I've never had it serviced, 8 years of short trips to work 6 days a week plus holidays etc
Even then he just put a filter on it and topped it up
It lasted another 3 years before the clutch went and he binned it
My grandfathers watch is over 45 years old, has never been serviced and keeps accurate time
But thanks for your input
wack said:
Really
True story
Guy at work had a fiesta, came in and spoke to the maintenance guy about a drip of oil under it
Maintenance guy goes and looks to find his oil filter has rusted through
When did you last have it serviced
I've never had it serviced, 8 years of short trips to work 6 days a week plus holidays etc
Even then he just put a filter on it and topped it up
It lasted another 3 years before the clutch went and he binned it
My grandfathers watch is over 45 years old, has never been serviced and keeps accurate time
But thanks for your input
Not by nature a mechanical kind of guy then...True story
Guy at work had a fiesta, came in and spoke to the maintenance guy about a drip of oil under it
Maintenance guy goes and looks to find his oil filter has rusted through
When did you last have it serviced
I've never had it serviced, 8 years of short trips to work 6 days a week plus holidays etc
Even then he just put a filter on it and topped it up
It lasted another 3 years before the clutch went and he binned it
My grandfathers watch is over 45 years old, has never been serviced and keeps accurate time
But thanks for your input
wack said:
GC8 said:
Car - good analogy. Don't service it and when it finally stops it's fked.
This is a spectacularly foolish post.
Reallyked.This is a spectacularly foolish post.
True story
Guy at work had a fiesta, came in and spoke to the maintenance guy about a drip of oil under it
Maintenance guy goes and looks to find his oil filter has rusted through
When did you last have it serviced
I've never had it serviced, 8 years of short trips to work 6 days a week plus holidays etc
Even then he just put a filter on it and topped it up
It lasted another 3 years before the clutch went and he binned it
My grandfathers watch is over 45 years old, has never been serviced and keeps accurate time
But thanks for your input
and it was going so well......
To continue with the car analogy - modern IC engines have a reserve of lubrication (the sump), whereas watches only have the very small amount of lubrication that they left the factory with
Cars will run with too little oil, but not for very long with no oil (although we once drained the oil out of a honda moped and started it up - it ran for over an hour before it died - closer inspection revealed it had run out of fuel - added a gallon and ran it for another hour or so before it seized. Put some oil in it (and down the bore) and it fired up again without drama or rattling - amazing)
A mechanical watch is rather more delicate and precision than an old Honda Cub, and it simply cannot be expected for it to last forever without a clean and some fresh lube. I'm guessing that the official service intervals are "cautious" and most will happily go much longer between services.
I will be listening to the likes of Variomatic - I probably won't have my Sub serviced on its 5th anniversary, but I WILL have it looked at the moment it starts to do anything unusual
To continue with the car analogy - modern IC engines have a reserve of lubrication (the sump), whereas watches only have the very small amount of lubrication that they left the factory with
Cars will run with too little oil, but not for very long with no oil (although we once drained the oil out of a honda moped and started it up - it ran for over an hour before it died - closer inspection revealed it had run out of fuel - added a gallon and ran it for another hour or so before it seized. Put some oil in it (and down the bore) and it fired up again without drama or rattling - amazing)
A mechanical watch is rather more delicate and precision than an old Honda Cub, and it simply cannot be expected for it to last forever without a clean and some fresh lube. I'm guessing that the official service intervals are "cautious" and most will happily go much longer between services.
I will be listening to the likes of Variomatic - I probably won't have my Sub serviced on its 5th anniversary, but I WILL have it looked at the moment it starts to do anything unusual
wack said:
I've read on a few forms where people have sent watches that are running fine in for a service , like its a car
[...]
Can somebody explain why people pay £300+ to get watches serviced when there's nothing wrong with them
[...]
Can somebody explain why people pay £300+ to get watches serviced when there's nothing wrong with them
wack said:
GC8 said:
Car - good analogy. Don't service it and when it finally stops it's fked.
This is a spectacularly foolish post.
Reallyked.This is a spectacularly foolish post.
True story
[...]
My grandfathers watch is over 45 years old, has never been serviced and keeps accurate time
But thanks for your input
Lots of people have pointed out that's not the case, in my case I took the trouble to give a fairly detailed view as a watchmaker, in non-technical terms.
Incidentally, I'm absolutely not bothered whether people service their watches regularly or not - with me or anyone else. If they choose not to then, when it does finally fail and end up on my bench they just get a bigger bill because of the wear that's happened. I really like the days when someone comes in and proudly says that their (now broken) watch "hasn't been touched for x decades" cos it means I get to eat steak in a week or two
In your case, with a 45 year old watch, there's a very good chance that, when it does fail, it won't just be expensive but irreparable because of obsolete parts. If you're happy with your granddad's watch becoming a piece of non-functional jewellery one day then that won't be a problem.
Anyway, it seems you'll do what you do and believe what you believe regardless of any advice given
Variomatic said:
In your case, with a 45 year old watch, there's a very good chance that, when it does fail, it won't just be expensive but irreparable because of obsolete parts. If you're happy with your granddad's watch becoming a piece of non-functional jewellery one day then that won't be a problem.
Anyway, it seems you'll do what you do and believe what you believe regardless of any advice given
^^ People who don't care about their watches in "don't have them serviced" shocker.Anyway, it seems you'll do what you do and believe what you believe regardless of any advice given
Pretty much this 100%. I've been working almost exclusively on vintage watches until now and it's amazing the state some watches end up in. Then people wonder why their returned watch isn't a chronometer like it was sixty years ago, after the watch has eaten itself to death.
Plus you've had to quote them a thousand manhours to undo the work their relatives "bargain" watchmaker did in the 60's (to be fair that's even worse than wear!) and make/modify the parts that have been obsolete since the 70's, if you're lucky enough for that to even be an option.
I sometimes wonder if many watches would have faired better if they had been made to a lower standard, but with some kind of failure mode that was easily repaired before serious damage was done to the watch.
Murph7355 said:
Why would that be any different if OP had his watch regularly serviced? Surely the risk of obsolescence is largely the same?
ADP68 said:
Perhaps they don't wear out if they're lubricated
Exactly that. With good lubrication, exclusion / removal of dirt, and barring accidental damage there's no reason for even a half decent watch to ever suffer any measurable wear - springs might eventually break from fatigue and ratchets might fail, but they're easy enough to find or make replacements for.
Effectively, if looked after, the train itself can last forever.
On the other hand, with failed oil and a bit of dust mixed in with it to from a grinding paste, wear will happen. If you consider a typical balance pivot (around 0.15mm diameter). In a watch running at 18000bph the surface of that pivot effectively slides about 135 metres every day, or 49 kilometres a year against its jewel hole.
That's no problem if it's clean and protected by oil, but if it's dry and abrasive particles have found their way in then, over 25 years of "never servicing", that's like dragging it from Lands End to John O'Groats across sandpaper. How anyone can be proud of doing that to a machine is a bit of a mystery really
Edited by Variomatic on Wednesday 19th August 23:27
I see servicing costs as part of the cost of ownership - it's good to know your quality timepieces are in good working order and that you're respecting the craftsmanship that went into them.
I wouldn't buy a watch (or car) that I wasn't willing to get serviced regularly.
Plus, sending off a watch for servicing and being without it for a few weeks is an opportunity to wear other pieces that don't normally get enough wrist time!
I wouldn't buy a watch (or car) that I wasn't willing to get serviced regularly.
Plus, sending off a watch for servicing and being without it for a few weeks is an opportunity to wear other pieces that don't normally get enough wrist time!
Just put my Panerai in for service, £400 after about 3 years. Not very impressed to be honest it has come to a complete stop a week or so ago and has never been a paticularly accurate time keeper. Mind you I have a Breitling as well which isn't much better!
Think I'll dig my £50 swatch out that still keeps good time after 25 years!
Think I'll dig my £50 swatch out that still keeps good time after 25 years!
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