Marine electrical query

[s2kjock]

I am currently refurbishing a 21' boat with my father and I have installed a new fused switch panel like this:

http://www.force4.co.uk/department/electrical/swit...

The instructions that came with it were minimal to say the least, but I have used these several years ago. Unfortunately the one on the left of the picture below does not seem to work when switched.



The positive supply as marked at the bottom (red wire) goes to the bar that supplies the 6 fuseholders, there is then a black pre-fitted loop from the fuseholder to each rocker switch. From two of the rocker switches there are supplies to the 2 devices (only wired up 2 at the moment) which are earthed to a an separate busbar mounted elsewhere.

I assumed that the rocker switch just completes the circuit when activated yet this does not seem to be happening with whichever switch I use. Continuity seems OK in each case for the switch, and also the fuses in the holders.

Anyone know what I am missing here, or have I a duff switch panel?

Very appreciative of any help anyone can offer.

[paintman]

Check that the battery is fully charged and in good condition.
Check that its terminal connections are tight & that the earth is correctly connected to the earth busbar you mention.
What happens if you connect the live directly to the live out wire, bypassing the fuse & switch?
Check the live feed methodically at every connection point with either a test bulb or a multimeter that there is power present. Connect the other side of the test bulb/multimeter directly to the battery earth terminal. Bear in mind a digital multimeter will often show full battery voltage even though there may be insufficient power to work the item due to faults in the wiring. A bulb will show that by either not lighting at all or being dim.
Check that the item you are powering is switched on if it has its own switch.
If the item is an LED check that it is connected the right way round - won't work if connected backwards. If it a normal bulb then test that.
A couple of long leads with a crocodile clip at each end may help - does the item work if powered directly from a battery.

Edited by paintman on Thursday 2nd July 01:29

[chedder]

Try temporarily connecting the negative lead off the right hand panel to the left hand panel neg busbar, if this works then all you need to do is wire a permanent neg to the unit.

Chedder

[s2kjock]

chedder said:

Try temporarily connecting the negative lead off the right hand panel to the left hand panel neg busbar, if this works then all you need to do is wire a permanent neg to the unit.

Chedder

Tried that and it didn't seem to work.

[s2kjock]

Thanks - most of this I have already looked at I think.

paintman said:

Check that the battery is fully charged and in good condition.

Battery is fine - devices run fine when connected to the other panel.

paintman said:

Check that its terminal connections are tight & that the earth is correctly connected to the earth busbar you mention.

Seem to be - all checked.

paintman said:

What happens if you connect the live directly to the live out wire, bypassing the fuse & switch?

Devices work if directly connected.

paintman said:

Check the live feed methodically at every connection point with either a test bulb or a multimeter that there is power present. Connect the other side of the test bulb/multimeter directly to the battery earth terminal. Bear in mind a digital multimeter will often show full battery voltage even though there may be insufficient power to work the item due to faults in the wiring. A bulb will show that by either not lighting at all or being dim.

Most of this I have done, although I am a bit unsure about the spade connectors on the rocker switches - particularly why there are three connectors when I imagine only 2 would be needed to make a connection. There is some sort of "grumbling" when the radio is connected, but not proper operation as there is when connected direct to the positive and earth busbars or using the other switch panel on the right.

paintman said:

Check that the item you are powering is switched on if it has its own switch.

Checked.

paintman said:

If the item is an LED check that it is connected the right way round - won't work if connected backwards. If it a normal bulb then test that.

No LEDs as such.

paintman said:

A couple of long leads with a crocodile clip at each end may help - does the item work if powered directly from a battery.

Tried this previously and worked fine.

It does seem to be an issue with the rocker switches either being faulty or me not connecting them right.

[AW111]

The new switches appear to be wired differently to the panel on the right, is this intentional?

Both panels feed the aux. from the centre terminal, but the left hand panel has power going to what would be opposite terminal on the switch, if it were spdt.

[s2kjock]

AW111 said:

The new switches appear to be wired differently to the panel on the right, is this intentional?

Both panels feed the aux. from the centre terminal, but the left hand panel has power going to what would be opposite terminal on the switch, if it were spdt.

Both panels are different - no idea why as they appear to be the same design if not manufacturer.

The one on the right works fine, although I needed to connect the earth bar to ensure the cigarette lighter socket worked. I didn't think a similar connection would be needed on the left hand panel (?)

For the rocker switch like these how should it normally be wired if it was independent of the panel in terms of feed to the device and positive supply and earth?

[LFB531]

Do the internal lights on the switches work when switched to on? It looks like the earth bar to the left is not wired which I would think needs to be done. You might find that's all you need to do, I had a similar issue a while back with illuminated switches until I wired them completely (still no idea why!)

Edited by LFB531 on Thursday 2nd July 16:08

[s2kjock]

Thanks.

I think I tried that previously but need to give it another go.

[gazzarose]

I've fitted a fair few of those type switch panels. The negative on the panel is only needed to illuminate the on indicator in the switch. If theres +ve every where you've checked then I'd be looking at the earth for the device next. I have had vhfs doing funny things and is usually a bad connection either in the +ve or the -ve. What are you using to test with? Sometimes a multimeter will show a voltage, but because they are very high impedance and so take very little current, it can mask a bad connection. I use a test lamp with a bulb (as opposed to an led). I've even used bilge pumps or horns before now. A supply that will light a bulb may not run a horn.

[s2kjock]

gazzarose said:

I've fitted a fair few of those type switch panels. The negative on the panel is only needed to illuminate the on indicator in the switch. If theres +ve every where you've checked then I'd be looking at the earth for the device next. I have had vhfs doing funny things and is usually a bad connection either in the +ve or the -ve. What are you using to test with? Sometimes a multimeter will show a voltage, but because they are very high impedance and so take very little current, it can mask a bad connection. I use a test lamp with a bulb (as opposed to an led). I've even used bilge pumps or horns before now. A supply that will light a bulb may not run a horn.

When I connected the VHF supply to the other switch panel on the right, it (the VHF) seemed to work fine (as did the depth sounder when I did the same thing) which indicates the earth connections are OK. It's all very odd - I'm not near the boat myself at the moment so can't recheck things, but I think I will have a go again at testing the switches myself with a bulb tester.

The boat needs to go in the water next weekend, so I think we will just connect the radio and sounder to the right hand panel for now. Interior lights and other electronic gizmos are not critical and can wait.

[dave-the-diver]

Possible the panel has been wired wrong, and the wrong switch connection has been commoned, eg the Acc not the ground in the diagram above.

Where are you / the boat?

David