What classic muscle car fits my needs?
Discussion
Evening guys.
I think I'm nearing the time where I want to scratch an itch of owning a classic muscle car.
I've semi narrowed it down to a 67-69 Camaro, or a 60's mustang fastback.
That said I'm open to other suggestions. It's just these two are visually the most appealing to me - especially the interior of the mustang.
My plan is to head out to the US, with a budget of $30-35k, buy then drive for 2 weeks across the states to drop off at the port to be shipped to me over in Dubai.
So this 'holiday' includes buying the car, driving to give it a shakedown and therefore being able to know what extras or fixes I need to buy before shipping it back.
I'm specifically looking for a manual.
I'll prob add aircon if it doesn't already have it.
The camaros seem to be having a bit of a jump in value recently and it seems hard to find one in the spec I'm after. (I was initially looking about 2 years ago and the prices were a lot cheaper.)
When over in Dubai, I'll be using it as a second car mostly in the winter months.
There are some lovely mountain roads about 1.5-2 hours drive from here.
Which one of these would be the most fun on a windy mountain road? (Obviously I'm not talking high speed control, just lesuirely with possibly a bit of tail out!)
Open to any other suggestions and any thoughts towards my 'plan'
Also, I'm unsure at the moment of the complications possibly involved in buying a car, then insuring myself on it in the U.S. for this kind of trip, has anyone got any experience?
Cheers
I think I'm nearing the time where I want to scratch an itch of owning a classic muscle car.
I've semi narrowed it down to a 67-69 Camaro, or a 60's mustang fastback.
That said I'm open to other suggestions. It's just these two are visually the most appealing to me - especially the interior of the mustang.
My plan is to head out to the US, with a budget of $30-35k, buy then drive for 2 weeks across the states to drop off at the port to be shipped to me over in Dubai.
So this 'holiday' includes buying the car, driving to give it a shakedown and therefore being able to know what extras or fixes I need to buy before shipping it back.
I'm specifically looking for a manual.
I'll prob add aircon if it doesn't already have it.
The camaros seem to be having a bit of a jump in value recently and it seems hard to find one in the spec I'm after. (I was initially looking about 2 years ago and the prices were a lot cheaper.)
When over in Dubai, I'll be using it as a second car mostly in the winter months.
There are some lovely mountain roads about 1.5-2 hours drive from here.
Which one of these would be the most fun on a windy mountain road? (Obviously I'm not talking high speed control, just lesuirely with possibly a bit of tail out!)
Open to any other suggestions and any thoughts towards my 'plan'
Also, I'm unsure at the moment of the complications possibly involved in buying a car, then insuring myself on it in the U.S. for this kind of trip, has anyone got any experience?
Cheers
Edited by El Capitano on Monday 18th May 17:19
Ha, yea I'm not under any false pretences that it will actually handle, or stop well... Mostly it will be used to potter around the streets here, but I definitely would want to venture further to the hills now and again. I suppose the best plan would be to try and find a couple here with owners kind enough to take me for a drive to get a feel for the way they handle for myself.
I'm also slightly concerned about overheating in this climate. That said the winters should be no problem, but when the heat picks up I wonder how it would cope..
I'm also slightly concerned about overheating in this climate. That said the winters should be no problem, but when the heat picks up I wonder how it would cope..
CoolFool said:
No classic muscle car can make a mountain road fun.
You've never driven one then.I've had almost both the cars you're looking at. A '69 firebird and a currently have a '68 cougar. Both are good fun to hustle along 'B' roads. I'd say buy whichever you can get the best deal on. There are a lot of them out there. And they're very easy to upgrade improve.
Edited by Cledus Snow on Monday 18th May 19:09
Cledus Snow said:
You've never driven one then.
I've had almost both the cars you're looking at. A '69 firebird and a currently have a '68 cougar. Both are good fun to hustle along 'B' roads. I'd say buy whichever you can get the best deal on. There are a lot of them out there. And they're very easy to upgrade improve.
Sorry. It is just the muscle car cliche.I've had almost both the cars you're looking at. A '69 firebird and a currently have a '68 cougar. Both are good fun to hustle along 'B' roads. I'd say buy whichever you can get the best deal on. There are a lot of them out there. And they're very easy to upgrade improve.
Edited by Cledus Snow on Monday 18th May 19:09
Cledus Snow said:
You've never driven one then.
I've had almost both the cars you're looking at. A '69 firebird and a currently have a '68 cougar. Both are good fun to hustle along 'B' roads. I'd say buy whichever you can get the best deal on. There are a lot of them out there. And they're very easy to upgrade improve.
They are not fun on B roads. They are too wide and un yielding but good fun on wider A roads.I've had almost both the cars you're looking at. A '69 firebird and a currently have a '68 cougar. Both are good fun to hustle along 'B' roads. I'd say buy whichever you can get the best deal on. There are a lot of them out there. And they're very easy to upgrade improve.
Edited by Cledus Snow on Monday 18th May 19:09
Also Camaro's and Mustangs are Pony cars not muscle
LittleEnus said:
Cledus Snow said:
You've never driven one then.
I've had almost both the cars you're looking at. A '69 firebird and a currently have a '68 cougar. Both are good fun to hustle along 'B' roads. I'd say buy whichever you can get the best deal on. There are a lot of them out there. And they're very easy to upgrade improve.
They are not fun on B roads. They are too wide and un yielding but good fun on wider A roads.I've had almost both the cars you're looking at. A '69 firebird and a currently have a '68 cougar. Both are good fun to hustle along 'B' roads. I'd say buy whichever you can get the best deal on. There are a lot of them out there. And they're very easy to upgrade improve.
Edited by Cledus Snow on Monday 18th May 19:09
Also Camaro's and Mustangs are Pony cars not muscle
How about instead of telling me I'm wrong you offer the OP some constructive advice on which he might prefer?
Also, mid size body, full size engine etc. pedantry is not really moving the thread on.
All input is appreciated regardless!
Ok, for the pendants, 'what pony car....'
My knowledge on classic Americans isn't great, which is why I'm here to get some input from you guys in the know.
Living here in the UAE has essentially given me the perfect excuse to finally own a car like this.
The roads are straight and smooth. Admittedly busy in the city but very quiet outside. The fuel is comically cheap so big V8s aren't a problem (sorry, small v8s for the pony cars
The mountain roads I'm talking about are 3 lanes wide, new, smooth sweeping Tarmac with almost no other traffic on them. Tight roads are not a problem. It's not like a pass in the Alps...
Once again, the mountains aren't going to be a regular drive. It would just be nice to take take up now and again when I'm bored of city/beach driving.
As mentioned, another reason for the appeal of the classic Americans is the amount of available parts and upgrades at great prices.
I regularly fly to the USA with work and getting parts is not an issue for me.
I enjoy working on cars and being a simple classic I am comfortable with the vast majority of
Great photo. Fair play for getting on the track!
Ok, for the pendants, 'what pony car....'
My knowledge on classic Americans isn't great, which is why I'm here to get some input from you guys in the know.
Living here in the UAE has essentially given me the perfect excuse to finally own a car like this.
The roads are straight and smooth. Admittedly busy in the city but very quiet outside. The fuel is comically cheap so big V8s aren't a problem (sorry, small v8s for the pony cars
The mountain roads I'm talking about are 3 lanes wide, new, smooth sweeping Tarmac with almost no other traffic on them. Tight roads are not a problem. It's not like a pass in the Alps...
Once again, the mountains aren't going to be a regular drive. It would just be nice to take take up now and again when I'm bored of city/beach driving.
As mentioned, another reason for the appeal of the classic Americans is the amount of available parts and upgrades at great prices.
I regularly fly to the USA with work and getting parts is not an issue for me.
I enjoy working on cars and being a simple classic I am comfortable with the vast majority of
Great photo. Fair play for getting on the track!
Edited by El Capitano on Tuesday 19th May 00:22
They're some good looking roads. Certainly better than the Norfolk B roads I have to make do with.
As I said, but something that you like. I would personally avoid anything with a big block, i know fuel is cheap but it does make the cars very nose heavy and not handle as well as a small block. If you need more power there's a world of tuning bits available. The same goes for handling and braking bits.
Maybe worth finding something with a light coloured interior. As even in the UK the black vinyl in mine gets quite toasty. Also in my opinion Fords have nicer interiors.
As I said, but something that you like. I would personally avoid anything with a big block, i know fuel is cheap but it does make the cars very nose heavy and not handle as well as a small block. If you need more power there's a world of tuning bits available. The same goes for handling and braking bits.
Maybe worth finding something with a light coloured interior. As even in the UK the black vinyl in mine gets quite toasty. Also in my opinion Fords have nicer interiors.
El Capitano said:
stuff
the handling of the cars won't be all that much different really. What you do aftermarket to the front shocks/suspension will make all the difference.Also do watch out for what options were ticked on the cars you are looking at, a mustang could have manual or power brakes, front drums or discs, power steering or manula, aircon or none... makes for a very different cars, and will save a fortune in parts if you decide to change something at a later date.
There are lots more cars out there you probably haven't thought of, and I would suggest a bit of looking through the options is well worth your while.
If like me you can't be bothered trawling through which car threads, then head over to youtube and look for the series entitled: "Roadkill". It's a show run by two editors of HotRod magazine who basically get junkyard muscle cars up and running, barely...
Some lovely cars in there, realkly shows how easy it is to get these things going even when they have been stood for decades.
Whatever you buy will be awesome though, just make sure you are doing some of the work on it rather than just sending to a garage. bonding with your car over a stripped nut really helps you appreciate it!
On roads like those, I would find a classic muscle car a bit of a chore and you'd sweat a lot.
Ford and GM are easier for parts, the Mopar stuff often far harder. Rust is an issue in anything but sunny climes.
My choice would be something like a Plymouth Cuda (the Mustang is such a common cliché).
You could look at cars like the Dodge Dart and Plymouth Duster which are off most people's radar:
In reality, I would probably buy a modern 2005-2009 Mustang (wait, I did...) - possibly a supercharged Roush - all the retro, modern handling and a/c.
You will of course find people talking about investments and selling for more than they paid, often forgetting the costs incurred in restoring the things.
Oh and don't forget that pre 72, they quoted gross hp and post 72, net hp but this also coincided with emissions regs resulting in low power low compression smoggers with not much oomph. it's the pre-72s as a rule of thumb or a later car with engine mods.
Ford and GM are easier for parts, the Mopar stuff often far harder. Rust is an issue in anything but sunny climes.
My choice would be something like a Plymouth Cuda (the Mustang is such a common cliché).
You could look at cars like the Dodge Dart and Plymouth Duster which are off most people's radar:
In reality, I would probably buy a modern 2005-2009 Mustang (wait, I did...) - possibly a supercharged Roush - all the retro, modern handling and a/c.
You will of course find people talking about investments and selling for more than they paid, often forgetting the costs incurred in restoring the things.
Oh and don't forget that pre 72, they quoted gross hp and post 72, net hp but this also coincided with emissions regs resulting in low power low compression smoggers with not much oomph. it's the pre-72s as a rule of thumb or a later car with engine mods.
Edited by LuS1fer on Tuesday 19th May 19:02
El Capitano said:
My plan is to head out to the US, with a budget of $30-35k, buy then drive for 2 weeks across the states to drop off at the port to be shipped to me over in Dubai.
So this 'holiday' includes buying the car, driving to give it a shakedown and therefore being able to know what extras or fixes I need to buy before shipping it back.
Also, I'm unsure at the moment of the complications possibly involved in buying a car, then insuring myself on it in the U.S. for this kind of trip, has anyone got any experience?
Cheers
I have been looking into this aswell, I have already imported a truck from CA but all that was done over the phone / net. So this 'holiday' includes buying the car, driving to give it a shakedown and therefore being able to know what extras or fixes I need to buy before shipping it back.
Also, I'm unsure at the moment of the complications possibly involved in buying a car, then insuring myself on it in the U.S. for this kind of trip, has anyone got any experience?
Cheers
I go to Florida for 3 weeks every year at christmas, the last time i was there i wanted to buy a Mustang, drive it up to the port and get it shipped back. The guy said this would be illegal as the "Tag" licence plate needs to be registered and insured to someone and anyone letting someone else use their TAG can get into lots of trouble.
Long story short i did not buy the Stang so never got to the bottom of it, however i am planning on doing the same as you this year IE buy and drive it around for a bit to find out any issues and what parts i need before i ship it back.
From what i have found the car needs to be licensed to a US citizen with insurance and the correct driving license. You can get a temp "tag" but still need to have a US address with your name on it somewhere.
I have really drawn a blank on it to be honest, it does not help that it is different from state to to state and they all have there own DMV to deal with.
Would love to hear of "others" have done it
Yea, it needs some research.
I have family living in the states so that could potentially make life easier if I can temporarily put it in my cousins name or similar, then I just need to sort out the insurance.
Thanks for the suggestion LuS1fer but to be honest the modern muscle is everywhere here in Dubai. The roads are flooded with mustangs etc, and to be honest they don't really excite me. I'd like to have something rare and pretty unique.
The classic would be a weekend car, and something I'd work on myself. Classics have always held a lot more appeal to me than modern cars. I know the drive wont be great, and the power more than likely lacking but then that's all part of it IMO.
I'm still looking at other vehicles but the Camaro and Mustang are where I'm focusing at the moment. It seems for $30k you can get a nice manual Camaro, but the Manual fastbacks around this price are harder to find.
I have family living in the states so that could potentially make life easier if I can temporarily put it in my cousins name or similar, then I just need to sort out the insurance.
Thanks for the suggestion LuS1fer but to be honest the modern muscle is everywhere here in Dubai. The roads are flooded with mustangs etc, and to be honest they don't really excite me. I'd like to have something rare and pretty unique.
The classic would be a weekend car, and something I'd work on myself. Classics have always held a lot more appeal to me than modern cars. I know the drive wont be great, and the power more than likely lacking but then that's all part of it IMO.
I'm still looking at other vehicles but the Camaro and Mustang are where I'm focusing at the moment. It seems for $30k you can get a nice manual Camaro, but the Manual fastbacks around this price are harder to find.
I looked into the lovely romantic image of buying a classic driving California to Florida and shipping it back home to the UK, but licensing and insurance is virtually impossible unless you're a US citizen.
I've never run a Mustang, but most advice so far is about right, go for a small block car, it'll be more rewarding, if budget allows buy one that's been subtly retro-modded, with better suspension, brakes etc, and possibly a 5 or 6 speed manual... it'll just be a nicer car to own and drive at any speed. yes, it'll hustle around winding mountain roads quite well, but being a big car it's happier on wider sweeping stuff.....
Buy a dry state well looked after or fully restored car or it'll have rust.
These are easy cars to run own, very little electronics and quite basic mechanically.
I've never run a Mustang, but most advice so far is about right, go for a small block car, it'll be more rewarding, if budget allows buy one that's been subtly retro-modded, with better suspension, brakes etc, and possibly a 5 or 6 speed manual... it'll just be a nicer car to own and drive at any speed. yes, it'll hustle around winding mountain roads quite well, but being a big car it's happier on wider sweeping stuff.....
Buy a dry state well looked after or fully restored car or it'll have rust.
These are easy cars to run own, very little electronics and quite basic mechanically.
I forgot, below is e-mail from my pal who lives in AZ I received last night. He knows Yank cars backwards so hope his views help! The mail was a response to me asking did he think a ponycar with an ecoboost engine was worth the effort:
''Nothing, absolutely nothing, can exceed the feeling of your whole body being pushed back in the seat as you accelerate, and change gears just to feel the rush again, along with the next 2 gears, especially if it your own car with an engine you had assembled piece by piece!
Forgot to mention the Pontiac Firebird also. Trans Am racing was coming in play in the middle to late 60's. Chevy made the Z-28 engine by using a 327 engine block, 4 inch bore, and a 283 crankshaft, 3 inch stroke and that made a 302 cubic inch engine. A very high reving engine. Pontiac took their 400, can't remember the bore, but it was big, and can't remember the stroke, but it was short. And made a 303 cubic inch engine. These were 69 model year cars, not many made, and they were only white with either blue or pink stripes. Pretty bad getting beat by a car when it is wearing pink stripes!
In 1970 the Trans Am engine size was increased to 350, I think. Plymouth and Dodge came out with a T/A. They were 4 speed cars with the exhaust out just before the rear wheels. 340 cubic inch with 3- 2 barrel carbs. The Z-28 was now a 350, but with 360 hp and with an optional automatic, YUK!
Forgot to mention that the Monte Carlo was available with the biggest engines too, also with a 4 speed manual. The Pontiac Grand Prix was also available with a big horsepower 455 and a 4 speed. Both very rare!
Oldsmobile stopped installing 4 speed manual transmissions in there 400 and 455 Olds 88's and 98's at the end of 1970. Fully loaded 1970 Olds 98 luxury barge, convertible, with all the options and a 4 speed. Very neat car then and to have today.
Back in Sevierville, Tennessee, at the Floyd Garrett Muscle Car Museum is a 1968 Chrysler 300 convertible, 426 hemi, 425 hp, 4 speed manual, just no air conditioning!!
Badest car I was every in, not drove, just rode in, was a 1970 Hemi Cuda 4 speed. Ungodly car! A million dollar car now!!
Back in the days when 'Happy Motoring', really met "Happy Motoring!"
''Nothing, absolutely nothing, can exceed the feeling of your whole body being pushed back in the seat as you accelerate, and change gears just to feel the rush again, along with the next 2 gears, especially if it your own car with an engine you had assembled piece by piece!
Forgot to mention the Pontiac Firebird also. Trans Am racing was coming in play in the middle to late 60's. Chevy made the Z-28 engine by using a 327 engine block, 4 inch bore, and a 283 crankshaft, 3 inch stroke and that made a 302 cubic inch engine. A very high reving engine. Pontiac took their 400, can't remember the bore, but it was big, and can't remember the stroke, but it was short. And made a 303 cubic inch engine. These were 69 model year cars, not many made, and they were only white with either blue or pink stripes. Pretty bad getting beat by a car when it is wearing pink stripes!
In 1970 the Trans Am engine size was increased to 350, I think. Plymouth and Dodge came out with a T/A. They were 4 speed cars with the exhaust out just before the rear wheels. 340 cubic inch with 3- 2 barrel carbs. The Z-28 was now a 350, but with 360 hp and with an optional automatic, YUK!
Forgot to mention that the Monte Carlo was available with the biggest engines too, also with a 4 speed manual. The Pontiac Grand Prix was also available with a big horsepower 455 and a 4 speed. Both very rare!
Oldsmobile stopped installing 4 speed manual transmissions in there 400 and 455 Olds 88's and 98's at the end of 1970. Fully loaded 1970 Olds 98 luxury barge, convertible, with all the options and a 4 speed. Very neat car then and to have today.
Back in Sevierville, Tennessee, at the Floyd Garrett Muscle Car Museum is a 1968 Chrysler 300 convertible, 426 hemi, 425 hp, 4 speed manual, just no air conditioning!!
Badest car I was every in, not drove, just rode in, was a 1970 Hemi Cuda 4 speed. Ungodly car! A million dollar car now!!
Back in the days when 'Happy Motoring', really met "Happy Motoring!"
i'm doing a poor job here of hogging the thread: again, mail from my pal ted in AZ as I asked him for the definitive Pony vs Muscle. His reply:
'Muscle cars were the bigger body cars with the largest engines, that made the most horsepower.
Mustang was the first one out in late 64, Plymouth Barracuda next, Camaro and Firebird later. But the Mustang, named after a horse, was considered the first PONY car. Smaller body with as big an engine, making as much horsepower possible, that would fit between the shock towers.
Then Pontiac went to town with the GTO, the 389 was the same size as the 350 and they bolted right in.
Soon the great big engines that were only available in the big cars were now available in the midsize.
And that soon changed to the Pony cars getting the big engines also.
And that was when the fun really started!!!
'Muscle cars were the bigger body cars with the largest engines, that made the most horsepower.
Mustang was the first one out in late 64, Plymouth Barracuda next, Camaro and Firebird later. But the Mustang, named after a horse, was considered the first PONY car. Smaller body with as big an engine, making as much horsepower possible, that would fit between the shock towers.
Then Pontiac went to town with the GTO, the 389 was the same size as the 350 and they bolted right in.
Soon the great big engines that were only available in the big cars were now available in the midsize.
And that soon changed to the Pony cars getting the big engines also.
And that was when the fun really started!!!
Cledus Snow said:
You're probably right. I've only spent the last 10 years owning and driving late 60's & early 70's yank stuff. So I'll bow to your superior knowledge.
How about instead of telling me I'm wrong you offer the OP some constructive advice on which he might prefer?
Well done on sounding like an utter cock. I've been driving and racing american iron for the past 23 years so stick that in your pipe.How about instead of telling me I'm wrong you offer the OP some constructive advice on which he might prefer?
None of them are any good on B roads.
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