355 Engine Wear
Discussion
Hi
I have a 355 F1GTS which went into the dealer for a service and with in a mile of leaving the forecourt I had blue smoke blowing everywhere. After 4 trips to the dealer I am now left with a stripped down engine and my dealer is telling me that the engine has suffered high levels or bore wear. They are claiming that the Nickelsil bores have worn by 7 thou in 16K miles. The correct amount should be 1 thou in 100K miles.
The dealer is quoting me £12K for a rebuild. They have told me that it has already cost £2250 just to remove and strip the engine. Is it me or has the dealer lost the plot?
I am tempted to call in a specialist engine surveyor / specialist to inspect what they are saying. In addition I also have a cracked manifold, which I can see from the forum is only too common.
Do people believe that having the engine rebuilt by a non approved ferrari dealer would diminish the value of the car?
I just hope I have more luck with the F430 I have on order.
All advice will be gratefully received.
I have a 355 F1GTS which went into the dealer for a service and with in a mile of leaving the forecourt I had blue smoke blowing everywhere. After 4 trips to the dealer I am now left with a stripped down engine and my dealer is telling me that the engine has suffered high levels or bore wear. They are claiming that the Nickelsil bores have worn by 7 thou in 16K miles. The correct amount should be 1 thou in 100K miles.
The dealer is quoting me £12K for a rebuild. They have told me that it has already cost £2250 just to remove and strip the engine. Is it me or has the dealer lost the plot?
I am tempted to call in a specialist engine surveyor / specialist to inspect what they are saying. In addition I also have a cracked manifold, which I can see from the forum is only too common.
Do people believe that having the engine rebuilt by a non approved ferrari dealer would diminish the value of the car?
I just hope I have more luck with the F430 I have on order.
All advice will be gratefully received.
I don't believe taking it out of the main dealer network will affect it's value much, if at all.
I'd call an indie for a rough quote and to see if they could pick up a dismantled car. If you get a decent estimate, call the dealer where your car is at, speak to the manager and "discuss" the price. If they won't budge, get it picked up and tell the main dealer to stick it.
I've recently found out that one main dealer in the south charges 110 quid +VAT an hour for labour!! WTF is that all about - apart from taking the piss royally because they are dealing with "premium" motors.
Where are you based? I have nothing but good stuff to say about Verdis if you're in the South. They'll probably be able to give you a decent quote and will definitely give you some good advice.
Sorry to hear about your hassles but I'm sure it'll be up and running again soon. And once you find a good indie it's a liberating experience.
PS Have a look on www.ferrarichat.com. There's a chap called Ade on there that may be able to give you more first hand experience...
I'd call an indie for a rough quote and to see if they could pick up a dismantled car. If you get a decent estimate, call the dealer where your car is at, speak to the manager and "discuss" the price. If they won't budge, get it picked up and tell the main dealer to stick it.
I've recently found out that one main dealer in the south charges 110 quid +VAT an hour for labour!! WTF is that all about - apart from taking the piss royally because they are dealing with "premium" motors.
Where are you based? I have nothing but good stuff to say about Verdis if you're in the South. They'll probably be able to give you a decent quote and will definitely give you some good advice.
Sorry to hear about your hassles but I'm sure it'll be up and running again soon. And once you find a good indie it's a liberating experience.
PS Have a look on www.ferrarichat.com. There's a chap called Ade on there that may be able to give you more first hand experience...
bilton_d said:
i was always told that synthetic oil didn't burn blue???
If it had that much engine wear you would have noticed this earlier and probably seem significant oil consumption not wanting to point fingers but i would guess something they have done during the service!!
The car was running perfectly when it went into the dealer. I had no significant oil usage before it went in. I spent £3K with the dealer on the service and other associated parts so as to keep the car A1.
I drove off and when I stopped at the first junction the car dissapeared in a ball of blue smoke. I phoned the dealer there and then and the service manager told me it was just WD40 from the service prep and valet???
I took the car in 4 times and each time they said they could find no problem but in 756 miles it used 4 litres of oil. They checked it again and this time carried out a compression test and told me No. 2 cylinder had no compression. When they stripped it down they found no problem but then said that No. 5 had very bad wear on the rings piston and bore, but good compression.
I find myself in the situation where I wonder if they have any idea what they are doing?
Surely this amount of wear in an engine that has done 16K miles is not normal or right?
Ferrari are saying that it is 7 years old, tough luck.
Good customer service!!!!!!!!
I am reading this with dread. I am just on the brink of buying a 20,000 mile 1998 355F1.If this happened after its next service......
Getting a groundhog day feeling from when I brought my Cerbera with the same rose tinted glasses.
Then it broke.....lots of times
Is Ferrari ownership gonna be much the same guys?
Beginning to wish I'd never sold the 996
Getting a groundhog day feeling from when I brought my Cerbera with the same rose tinted glasses.
Then it broke.....lots of times
Is Ferrari ownership gonna be much the same guys?
Beginning to wish I'd never sold the 996
klimrod said:
i was always told that synthetic oil didn't burn blue???
If it had that much engine wear you would have noticed this earlier and probably seem significant oil consumption not wanting to point fingers but i would guess something they have done during the service!!
The car was running perfectly when it went into the dealer. I had no significant oil usage before it went in. I spent £3K with the dealer on the service and other associated parts so as to keep the car A1.
I drove off and when I stopped at the first junction the car dissapeared in a ball of blue smoke. I phoned the dealer there and then and the service manager told me it was just WD40 from the service prep and valet???
I took the car in 4 times and each time they said they could find no problem but in 756 miles it used 4 litres of oil. They checked it again and this time carried out a compression test and told me No. 2 cylinder had no compression. When they stripped it down they found no problem but then said that No. 5 had very bad wear on the rings piston and bore, but good compression.
I find myself in the situation where I wonder if they have any idea what they are doing?
Surely this amount of wear in an engine that has done 16K miles is not normal or right?
Ferrari are saying that it is 7 years old, tough luck.
Good customer service!!!!!!!!
shirley you should raise merry hell with the dealer? if it was running sweetly before the service and afterwards it was not, I think you need to have words with them along the lines of "your fault miladdo, you fix it - and pronto" or something close
That does sound very strange.
I think you need to arrange an appointment with the dealer management and have a sit down and talk about it.
Is it a Ferrari Approved Main Dealer? If so, you might also want to raise it with Ferrari UK. Though to be honest, don't get your hopes up too much with those guys.
Unfortunately the Ferrari Approved network doesn't seem to be massively bothered about its customers at times - waiting lists a mile long seem to engender a degree of laissez faire in them.
On the 996 front, I wonder what Porsche's attitude will be when their cars are 7yrs old and get RMS failures...the trouble is, engineers and people with the passion no longer run these companies. Accountants do (literally in Porsche's case as I understand it).
I think you need to arrange an appointment with the dealer management and have a sit down and talk about it.
Is it a Ferrari Approved Main Dealer? If so, you might also want to raise it with Ferrari UK. Though to be honest, don't get your hopes up too much with those guys.
Unfortunately the Ferrari Approved network doesn't seem to be massively bothered about its customers at times - waiting lists a mile long seem to engender a degree of laissez faire in them.
On the 996 front, I wonder what Porsche's attitude will be when their cars are 7yrs old and get RMS failures...the trouble is, engineers and people with the passion no longer run these companies. Accountants do (literally in Porsche's case as I understand it).
I think one of the last owners used cheep oil and maybe somewere along the line the speedo has been disconected to save on resale value. But now your the one picking up the bill. But the car running fine before you took it into the dealers puzzels me, unless the tune up that they gave it brought the problems forward. So sorry to hear it mate.
bradley1 said:
I think one of the last owners used cheep oil and maybe somewere along the line the speedo has been disconected to save on resale value. But now your the one picking up the bill. But the car running fine before you took it into the dealers puzzels me, unless the tune up that they gave it brought the problems forward. So sorry to hear it mate.
I am only the second owner and I have owned it for 4 years. I have had no trouble at all and only started spewing smoke after it had gone into the dealer. It was the first time this particular dealer had been let lose on the car.
I am concerned that when the car was with them it was either buzzed or the wrong oil was used or some other similar human error.
jenzo said:
turbobloke said:
99% certain I'm wrong - but as previous posts have mentioned, clouds of blue smoke after a service could be coincidence. Or it could be that they overfilled it on the oil change.
I think that the problem is a little more than just over filled oil
I thought I'd said that my opinion was 99% in agreement with that 'serious' view you seem to share, and 1% with overfilling with oil. Perhaps you missed that bit. However the initial post didn't mention an oil level check, did it?
Since the original post said - before the engine stripping started - there was a lot of blue smoke driving away after a service, too much oil might just be responsible as I had exactly these symptoms myself. After draining a couple of litres of synthetic the smoke stopped (and synthetic oil does burn blue in small amounts, clouds look like clouds!).
As draining oil is much easier and far less costly than an engine re-build it seemed reasonable to suggest the possibility. From the information that was given it couldn't be dismissed 100%, it saved me the same moolah that somebody else isn't totally delirious about paying out now just to get the engine stripped
As to the report of so many thou wear, I had that from a main dealer on another component unrelated to engine wear, and was facing a £2k bill. Having a little mechanical sense and suspecting this was total b0ll0x it went to an independent who stood next to me and showed me I was right, he estimated the part concerned had about 10k miles serviceable use left in it and that proved to be about right.
Moral - don't believe everything you hear that's suggesting expensive repairs or replacements and get a second opinion before forking out a few £k. OK? Hopefully that's happening here and no doubt the wear will be as stated and the diagnosis correct. But I had 1% doubt.
>> Edited by turbobloke on Sunday 23 January 12:20
A 2nd opinion is a good idea. My missus' Range Rover diesel was running rough on tickover so I took it to a main dealer whose computer diagnostics told them it was the flywheel and needed a new one at £1500 thank you very much. Being a suspicious so and so, especially as a flywheel is a solid lump of steel which cant realy wear out, I decided to change the £20 crank sensor, which picks up its signal from the flywheel, myself.
Its ran perfect ever since. Robbing dogs. Good lesson learned tho'.
>> Edited by hazy on Saturday 22 January 21:55
Its ran perfect ever since. Robbing dogs. Good lesson learned tho'.
>> Edited by hazy on Saturday 22 January 21:55
Clive
If you are looking for somebody a bit nearer to you, you would do well to ask Tim Bate. Tim used to work at Westover and has recently left Meridien Modena, he used to service my 355 which as it happens previously belonged to his father. He's recently setup on his own as a specialist in Bournmouth under the name of Emblem
If you are looking for somebody a bit nearer to you, you would do well to ask Tim Bate. Tim used to work at Westover and has recently left Meridien Modena, he used to service my 355 which as it happens previously belonged to his father. He's recently setup on his own as a specialist in Bournmouth under the name of Emblem
Clive, YHM.
Bloody hell, they stripped the engine quick!
Sounds a little suspicious to me bud.
That kind of wear is not reasonable at all, sounds fishy.
An engine is an engine, there is no way in hell you should have to pay 12k for an engine rebuild, you're not talking about a V12 twin turbo engine with crazy F1 heads etc.... (although that would be a little more pricy)...
but anyway, hope you dont leave her with this dealer. Cut yourself the 2k odd losses and get the car and engine out of there pronto!
Another reason why you should never get a rebuild until the car has been inspected by another.
I mean, you wouldnt let someone operate on your heart from just one doctors opinion right?
Bloody hell, they stripped the engine quick!
Sounds a little suspicious to me bud.
That kind of wear is not reasonable at all, sounds fishy.
An engine is an engine, there is no way in hell you should have to pay 12k for an engine rebuild, you're not talking about a V12 twin turbo engine with crazy F1 heads etc.... (although that would be a little more pricy)...
but anyway, hope you dont leave her with this dealer. Cut yourself the 2k odd losses and get the car and engine out of there pronto!
Another reason why you should never get a rebuild until the car has been inspected by another.
I mean, you wouldnt let someone operate on your heart from just one doctors opinion right?
Eurospares have a complete 355 engine (13,000 miles) available for £9,500 on an exchange basis. Speak to James or Claudio who are both extremely helpful and very knowledgeable
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