R500 or not R500 That is the question
Discussion
I really need the assistance from the collective here on the forum.
For years my father and I had talked about buying a Caterham together. Unfortunately my father passed away earlier this year before we had the opportunity to realise our dream. In his memory I intend to finish what we started and now I am looking for that special car.
We both wanted a R500 and I have come to realise that while not many are out there some exist that are not true R500s but have been converted at high cost to the owner.
What is the collectives opinion on non original R500s does this offer any challenges to a prospective buyer?
What would the expected difference in cost be between a real R500 and a good copy?
And if a copy was a worth while prospect then what should I look for or be aware of to make the right choice?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts on my questions and I look forward to your response.
For years my father and I had talked about buying a Caterham together. Unfortunately my father passed away earlier this year before we had the opportunity to realise our dream. In his memory I intend to finish what we started and now I am looking for that special car.
We both wanted a R500 and I have come to realise that while not many are out there some exist that are not true R500s but have been converted at high cost to the owner.
What is the collectives opinion on non original R500s does this offer any challenges to a prospective buyer?
What would the expected difference in cost be between a real R500 and a good copy?
And if a copy was a worth while prospect then what should I look for or be aware of to make the right choice?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts on my questions and I look forward to your response.
An R500 is an R500. A replica is not.
But all this depends on whether you think an R500 will ever attain 'classic' status. The jury is out on that. They've been valued at between £21k to £24k in K Series form for the past decade.
If you've never owned a Caterham before, the R500 is not the recommended choice for your first 7....
But all this depends on whether you think an R500 will ever attain 'classic' status. The jury is out on that. They've been valued at between £21k to £24k in K Series form for the past decade.
If you've never owned a Caterham before, the R500 is not the recommended choice for your first 7....
Hi thanks for your advice
I have had a 140k in the past and loved it and have been involved in motorsport all my life so that is why a R500 was high on the shopping list.
While it is not a purchase aimed at being an investment ,future status of the vehicle has to be a consideration when spending so much money.
I also wonder if I should go for a K or a D? I just can not decide.
I have had a 140k in the past and loved it and have been involved in motorsport all my life so that is why a R500 was high on the shopping list.
While it is not a purchase aimed at being an investment ,future status of the vehicle has to be a consideration when spending so much money.
I also wonder if I should go for a K or a D? I just can not decide.
Given the fact that a lot of cars are not original, i.e. have different engines, drivetrain, suspension, bodywork, etc. I wouldn't worry one bit about what Caterham's position with respect to resale is.
As to the K versus D argument, your best bet is to go and drive them both. Both have pros and cons and a heap of devotees to lavish praise on their choice. I have a 230hp 1.8 K series which does me fine. I've not driven a D, but would prefer a high revving engine in something like a 7 rather than a torque monster.
A lot of your choice will boil down to what type of use the car is likely to get and what sort of driving style you have, and how you want to actually drive the car (up and down the box all the time, using the entire rev range, etc)
If you want R500 performance, I wouldn't limit your choice solely to "genuine" R500s. There are loads of cars out there which have been very well built using non factory parts which go just as well if not better than a factory R500. As Rubystone says, at circa £21-24k, you're not going to get rich with a genuine car anyway...
PS if you want to hang out in pub car parks, or "rallies", perhaps a stock R500 is the better choice, so as not to attract commentary from those who have an aversion to cars not modified to their personal choice.
As to the K versus D argument, your best bet is to go and drive them both. Both have pros and cons and a heap of devotees to lavish praise on their choice. I have a 230hp 1.8 K series which does me fine. I've not driven a D, but would prefer a high revving engine in something like a 7 rather than a torque monster.
A lot of your choice will boil down to what type of use the car is likely to get and what sort of driving style you have, and how you want to actually drive the car (up and down the box all the time, using the entire rev range, etc)
If you want R500 performance, I wouldn't limit your choice solely to "genuine" R500s. There are loads of cars out there which have been very well built using non factory parts which go just as well if not better than a factory R500. As Rubystone says, at circa £21-24k, you're not going to get rich with a genuine car anyway...
PS if you want to hang out in pub car parks, or "rallies", perhaps a stock R500 is the better choice, so as not to attract commentary from those who have an aversion to cars not modified to their personal choice.
Edited by fergus on Tuesday 28th April 11:32
fergus said:
Given the fact that a lot of cars are not original, i.e. have different engines, drivetrain, suspension, bodywork, etc. I wouldn't worry one bit about what Caterham's position with respect to resale is.
You may not worry about Caterhams position on the resale and it does effect how you view things but some modified cars may be beautiful in the eyes of some but they can also be a bit of a pig in a poke Edited by fergus on Tuesday 28th April 11:32
A standard car tends to have a better re-sale as its not messed with and there are differing abilities of various 'builds' so a 'stock' Caterham is easier to sell than a converted one and tends to attract a higher price
( I just know I will get flamed for writing this)
Toaster said:
fergus said:
Given the fact that a lot of cars are not original, i.e. have different engines, drivetrain, suspension, bodywork, etc. I wouldn't worry one bit about what Caterham's position with respect to resale is.
You may not worry about Caterhams position on the resale and it does effect how you view things but some modified cars may be beautiful in the eyes of some but they can also be a bit of a pig in a poke Edited by fergus on Tuesday 28th April 11:32
A standard car tends to have a better re-sale as its not messed with and there are differing abilities of various 'builds' so a 'stock' Caterham is easier to sell than a converted one and tends to attract a higher price
( I just know I will get flamed for writing this)
A lot of "kit" builds are done by people with very little mechanical knowledge, so although they go through a post build inspection by a dealer/Caterham, this mainly covers safety critical items, rather than ensuring the correct threads are greased, powdercoated threads have been tapped out, diffs are correctly centralised, etc, etc.
Most of the heavily modified cars are taken right back to a bare chassis and then built up using more care and thought than Caterham put into their initial design/build.
Granted, some of the "modified" cars have bits simply bolted on with little thought.....
If the difference between these two scenarios is under £5k for a given "spec" of car, who's really that bothered as it's less than a small hatchback loses in depreciation over a relatively short time frame?
fergus said:
Most of the heavily modified cars are taken right back to a bare chassis and then built up using more care and thought than Caterham put into their initial design/build.
That feels to me to be a huge sweeping generalisation. I would make one the opposite. Most home-grown mega modded cars are pretty compromised!BTW there is a mega orange 250bhp +k-series sitting in my garage that the owner needs to sell!
Bert
BertBert said:
That feels to me to be a huge sweeping generalisation. I would make one the opposite. Most home-grown mega modded cars are pretty compromised!
BTW there is a mega orange 250bhp +k-series sitting in my garage that the owner needs to sell!
Bert
Hmmmm,.....is his asking price sensible?...BTW there is a mega orange 250bhp +k-series sitting in my garage that the owner needs to sell!
Bert
Being original only matters if it matters to you. IMHO, original spec cars go for a premium because people know what they are getting, and repairs and support is often easier. A degree of provenance is also nice to have.
As I've developed my car, I have kept all the original parts, so when it's time sell my car, it can be returned to original/factory option spec.
As I've developed my car, I have kept all the original parts, so when it's time sell my car, it can be returned to original/factory option spec.
Thanks everyone this really helps.
So am I right in thinking that if an original 500k ( numbered )goes for 21-24k then a non numbered 500 could demand approx 5k less?
Also if there is a vehicle that the collective thinks is worth looking at then I would love to know more. Finding just any car just won't do but I will know the right one when I find it so any suggestions will help.
I recently missed out on the perfect car because I was just too slow and any I have found through CC have too much mixed history and as a result leaves me with just too much doubt.
The guys at Seven's & Classics who have just been so helpful are also on the lookout for me and have offered some very useful information to assist with my quest but they are 5 hrs away and regular visits to Kent are just not possible.
Thanks once again for your assistance having read most of the posts on this forum I knew that asking the right questions here would lead to a much calmer mind and possibly a little clarity please keep your advice coming
So am I right in thinking that if an original 500k ( numbered )goes for 21-24k then a non numbered 500 could demand approx 5k less?
Also if there is a vehicle that the collective thinks is worth looking at then I would love to know more. Finding just any car just won't do but I will know the right one when I find it so any suggestions will help.
I recently missed out on the perfect car because I was just too slow and any I have found through CC have too much mixed history and as a result leaves me with just too much doubt.
The guys at Seven's & Classics who have just been so helpful are also on the lookout for me and have offered some very useful information to assist with my quest but they are 5 hrs away and regular visits to Kent are just not possible.
Thanks once again for your assistance having read most of the posts on this forum I knew that asking the right questions here would lead to a much calmer mind and possibly a little clarity please keep your advice coming
rfmotorsport said:
Thanks everyone this really helps.
So am I right in thinking that if an original 500k ( numbered )goes for 21-24k then a non numbered 500 could demand approx 5k less?
Also if there is a vehicle that the collective thinks is worth looking at then I would love to know more. Finding just any car just won't do but I will know the right one when I find it so any suggestions will help.
I recently missed out on the perfect car because I was just too slow and any I have found through CC have too much mixed history and as a result leaves me with just too much doubt.
The guys at Seven's & Classics who have just been so helpful are also on the lookout for me and have offered some very useful information to assist with my quest but they are 5 hrs away and regular visits to Kent are just not possible.
Thanks once again for your assistance having read most of the posts on this forum I knew that asking the right questions here would lead to a much calmer mind and possibly a little clarity please keep your advice coming
There's no such thing as a non numbered R500. And tbh, a properly sorted 7 with R500 power is going to be better than an original 'out of the box' KR500 :-) . Not sure that helps, beyond trying to make you think about the car rather than what it might be worth....So am I right in thinking that if an original 500k ( numbered )goes for 21-24k then a non numbered 500 could demand approx 5k less?
Also if there is a vehicle that the collective thinks is worth looking at then I would love to know more. Finding just any car just won't do but I will know the right one when I find it so any suggestions will help.
I recently missed out on the perfect car because I was just too slow and any I have found through CC have too much mixed history and as a result leaves me with just too much doubt.
The guys at Seven's & Classics who have just been so helpful are also on the lookout for me and have offered some very useful information to assist with my quest but they are 5 hrs away and regular visits to Kent are just not possible.
Thanks once again for your assistance having read most of the posts on this forum I knew that asking the right questions here would lead to a much calmer mind and possibly a little clarity please keep your advice coming
Yes that does help thanks
So how would you describe this one ?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...
Is it a road sport or a R500 ?
So how would you describe this one ?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...
Is it a road sport or a R500 ?
Edited by rfmotorsport on Tuesday 28th April 22:51
Edited by rfmotorsport on Tuesday 28th April 22:52
It's neither. It's an ex-racer that has been modded. Now it might have been well-modded, but it is not an R500. It might to all intents and purposes be equivalent to an R500, but it isn't one. Does it matter? Only the buyer can decide.
rfmotorsport said:
Yes that does help thanks
So how you describe this one ?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...
Is it a road sport or a R500 ?
So how you describe this one ?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...
Is it a road sport or a R500 ?
Edited by rfmotorsport on Tuesday 28th April 22:51
[quote=BertBert]It's neither. It's an ex-racer that has been modded. Now it might have been well-modded, but it is not an R500. It might to all intents and purposes be equivalent to an R500, but it isn't one. Does it matter? Only the buyer can decide.quote=rfmotorsport]
Possibly and possibly yes when you sell it as its not a R500 as you pointed out
Possibly and possibly yes when you sell it as its not a R500 as you pointed out
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