Discussion
I'm looking for a 355 Spider, and I'm drawn to the F1. I'm just worried that as it becomes more of a classic car it will become more difficult to sell, or will take a hit in value compared to a manual. There's more to go wrong on an F1 and as the cars get older, buyers might increasingly tend to avoid them.
On the other hand, most new Ferrari buyers go for F1s, so they must be in demand, and I have been told (by Joe Macari and others) that the 355 F1 system works better than the 360 F1 system. Also because the F1 system was introduced later in the 355's life, the 355 F1 is relatively rare compared to the 360 F1 (and all future models). So these factors could tend to make the 355 F1 more sought-after than the manual.
Does anyone have a view on the issue of future values?
(By the way - I've read loads of threads here and on Ferrarichat about whether the F1 or manual is better to drive, and the concensus seems to be that... there is no concensus. I think it comes down to personal preference - I just need to drive one and try to make up my own mind.)
On the other hand, most new Ferrari buyers go for F1s, so they must be in demand, and I have been told (by Joe Macari and others) that the 355 F1 system works better than the 360 F1 system. Also because the F1 system was introduced later in the 355's life, the 355 F1 is relatively rare compared to the 360 F1 (and all future models). So these factors could tend to make the 355 F1 more sought-after than the manual.
Does anyone have a view on the issue of future values?
(By the way - I've read loads of threads here and on Ferrarichat about whether the F1 or manual is better to drive, and the concensus seems to be that... there is no concensus. I think it comes down to personal preference - I just need to drive one and try to make up my own mind.)
driver said:
I'm just worried that as it becomes more of a classic car
Just my opinion, but I would have thought that, with the numbers produced and, the relative young age of the 355, you are many years away from having to worry about classic status or rarity.
The 348s are older and were produced in much less quantity and they won't become "classics" for a number of years yet.
Just buy on feel and reliability advice, it's all you can do really. personally i love the thought of the fast F1 change... but actually buying one? ... that gated gear shift is a Ferrari institution when all said and done
NUTSKIE.. said:
Is Joe trying to sell you a 355 F1 car ?!!
The F1 box in a 355 does not work better than a 360 F1 box. IMHO he's talking crap
No, he has F1s and manuals. He's not the only person to say this - I'm sure this has been discussed on Ferrarichat, but less so on this forum.
burriana said:
you are many years away from having to worry about classic status or rarity.
that gated gear shift is a Ferrari institution when all said and done
I guess it depends what you mean by 'classic car'. I just meant the time when these sort of cars stop depreciating - I think that's happening with the Porsche 993 at the moment.
I don't think the 355 will ever go up much in value, just because they made so many.
On the other hand a lot of people like it more than the car that replaced it, which is another way you could define 'classic'.
I'll probably get flamed for this, but I have driven a manual and I didn't particularly like the gate. It just seems to make it easier to get the wrong gear. Anyway didn't they only become a standard fitment on their road cars in the 70s? I'm sure I've seen pictures of Daytonas with a leather boot instead.
>> Edited by driver on Thursday 20th January 13:15
I had a 355 F1 for about a year and to be honest I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Great on a serious blat, it was a nightmare in traffic, especially stop start traffic, and they can go through clutches like nobody's business (I was told by the dealer that 6k was the average lifespan, although I managed to stretch mine to just under 10k).
You can alter your style of driving and make the F1 box behave, and a suitably eqipped garage can adjust the biting point to suit you better (IIRC) but it is still a bit too crude when you get stuck in traffic (inevitable!).
I drove the 360 and it was a considerable improvement in my opinion and I'm sure later cars are even better as Ferrari (and their supplier, Magneti Marelli (??)) improve the technology.
However, my experience is limited to the car I owned so to be fair to you it is of limited value. The next time I bought a 355, I bought a manual which was bliss. Drive them both (and include some traffic or a junction on a hill) and see which you prefer.
You can alter your style of driving and make the F1 box behave, and a suitably eqipped garage can adjust the biting point to suit you better (IIRC) but it is still a bit too crude when you get stuck in traffic (inevitable!).
I drove the 360 and it was a considerable improvement in my opinion and I'm sure later cars are even better as Ferrari (and their supplier, Magneti Marelli (??)) improve the technology.
However, my experience is limited to the car I owned so to be fair to you it is of limited value. The next time I bought a 355, I bought a manual which was bliss. Drive them both (and include some traffic or a junction on a hill) and see which you prefer.
well firsly ive owned 2 355s 1 manual and 1 F1 and driven the 360F1.
No point in going on here about which system is better, manual-F1 One thing for sure as the 360 throttle works on fly by wire the F1 system in that is worse much worse!! than any 355F1 until 2003/4 when system was upgraded. Just drive a 99-2002 360 to confirm that!
All the f1 systems seem to lack consistency in that when the flywheel heats up ( as in traffic) they dont seem to operate in the same way; the sytems seem unable to compensate for that. It helps a lot if the PIS( point of initial slip) is adjusted properly- which many are not!
As for clutch wear and stories of 2K miles on a clutch, well My car has done 19K had clutch replaced but still 3-4 K left on it. My business partner 25K still on original and many on F chat who have over 20K with no problems. In terms of general reliability it seems to not have issues over the manual car.
as to the man-f1 debate- some say you must have the gate, thats ok but lets face it the 355 manual box is not the best!! ( no where near as good as 360 man)
On a nice open road where the car sgould be driven the F1 is great fun.
To make a jusdgmnet ou need to drive an F1 car for much longer to really know how t use it and get the best from it!
No point in going on here about which system is better, manual-F1 One thing for sure as the 360 throttle works on fly by wire the F1 system in that is worse much worse!! than any 355F1 until 2003/4 when system was upgraded. Just drive a 99-2002 360 to confirm that!
All the f1 systems seem to lack consistency in that when the flywheel heats up ( as in traffic) they dont seem to operate in the same way; the sytems seem unable to compensate for that. It helps a lot if the PIS( point of initial slip) is adjusted properly- which many are not!
As for clutch wear and stories of 2K miles on a clutch, well My car has done 19K had clutch replaced but still 3-4 K left on it. My business partner 25K still on original and many on F chat who have over 20K with no problems. In terms of general reliability it seems to not have issues over the manual car.
as to the man-f1 debate- some say you must have the gate, thats ok but lets face it the 355 manual box is not the best!! ( no where near as good as 360 man)
On a nice open road where the car sgould be driven the F1 is great fun.
To make a jusdgmnet ou need to drive an F1 car for much longer to really know how t use it and get the best from it!
[quote]
The 348s are older and were produced in much less quantity and they won't become "classics" for a number of years yet.
[quote]
Surely part of the reason for that is that dynamically there were never really that good compared to their contemporaries such as the NSX, whereas the F355 seemed leagues better? I would hazard a guess that 355's would be seen as classics more so in the future than the 348 as it can be percived as being a little "doggy" ( couldn't think of another way to describe it)
>> Edited by obiwonkeyblokey on Thursday 20th January 14:54
The 348s are older and were produced in much less quantity and they won't become "classics" for a number of years yet.
[quote]
Surely part of the reason for that is that dynamically there were never really that good compared to their contemporaries such as the NSX, whereas the F355 seemed leagues better? I would hazard a guess that 355's would be seen as classics more so in the future than the 348 as it can be percived as being a little "doggy" ( couldn't think of another way to describe it)
>> Edited by obiwonkeyblokey on Thursday 20th January 14:54
355f - What exactly happens when the flywheel heats up? I've also heard that the clutches can overheat in traffic jams. This is my main worry about F1 really - does it just shorten clutch life, or do you have to stop the car? How much do main dealers charge for a new clutch? At Verdis it's about £500, which is OK.
Obiwon - Yeah, the road tests weren't that complementary about the 348 when they were new, whereas they all said the 355 was close to perfect.
Obiwon - Yeah, the road tests weren't that complementary about the 348 when they were new, whereas they all said the 355 was close to perfect.
well firstly the autocar roadtest on the 355F1 in 99 said 'oneday all transmissions will be like this, dont get to taken in with motor mags!
If the clutch overheats it simply goes into neutral to protect itself, and you re engage immeditately it works very well. But it rarely happens to me as I always put the car in neutral at the lights- just as you would in a manual.
Cost of a clutch, 4/500 and its not engine out to do it.
You need to try it for a day, you might really like it!
>> Edited by 355f on Thursday 20th January 18:42
If the clutch overheats it simply goes into neutral to protect itself, and you re engage immeditately it works very well. But it rarely happens to me as I always put the car in neutral at the lights- just as you would in a manual.
Cost of a clutch, 4/500 and its not engine out to do it.
You need to try it for a day, you might really like it!
>> Edited by 355f on Thursday 20th January 18:42
My 355 is a manual, having just changed from a 996 tptronic.
Nice to be driving a sportscar how it was originally intended.
In terms of future classicability - go for the manual - electronic parts (not ferraris strongpoint) for the gearchange will become harder and more expensive to source as the model becomes rarer.
Nice to be driving a sportscar how it was originally intended.
In terms of future classicability - go for the manual - electronic parts (not ferraris strongpoint) for the gearchange will become harder and more expensive to source as the model becomes rarer.
355f - What happens when the flywheel heats up though? Does it ever stall (embarassing!)? F1 owners have said that you have to drive 1000 miles in them to get used to the system, but when the 355 F1 came out, Ferrari UK limited magazines to 500 miles (see EVO Jan 99 p73). That could be why UK magazines never quite warmed to the F1. I can't imagine a Ferrari dealer handing me the keys for a day, unfortunately! They seem to regard all potential customers as 'time wasters'...
(Strangely, although EVO said the 355 F1 was fantastic, they placed it behind the 996 and the Elise Sport 135 in ECOTY 1998, without really saying why, and they gave the F1 four stars, but the manual five stars in 'The Knowledge'.)
F355spider - It's somewhat worrying if you can't get K-Jetronic parts. I would have thought there'd be a mom & pop operation doing refurbs somewhere.
(Strangely, although EVO said the 355 F1 was fantastic, they placed it behind the 996 and the Elise Sport 135 in ECOTY 1998, without really saying why, and they gave the F1 four stars, but the manual five stars in 'The Knowledge'.)
F355spider - It's somewhat worrying if you can't get K-Jetronic parts. I would have thought there'd be a mom & pop operation doing refurbs somewhere.
obiwonkeyblokey said:
[quote]
The 348s are older and were produced in much less quantity and they won't become "classics" for a number of years yet.
[quote]
Surely part of the reason for that is that dynamically there were never really that good compared to their contemporaries such as the NSX, whereas the F355 seemed leagues better? I would hazard a guess that 355's would be seen as classics more so in the future than the 348 as it can be percived as being a little "doggy" ( couldn't think of another way to describe it)
>> Edited by obiwonkeyblokey on Thursday 20th January 14:54
I drove both a 348TS and an NSX back to back yesterday. I'd say that dynamically the 348 is better, but much harder to live with.
Simon
obiwonkeyblokey said:
than the 348 as it can be percived as being a little "doggy"
er, right
The 355 may be technically the better car, but to call the 348 "doggy" is just plain mis-guided. Yes, day to day an NSX will be a lot easier to live with, so would your Z4 - but blasting up and down the Alps and across France and Germany, my 348 was superb fun and great to drive on both motorways and hairpins.... strangely a lot of people who have been in it seem to think so too.
My point was that there are simply too many 355s out there to make them classics for quite some time yet. Being good, doesn't necessarily make something a classic before it's time.
>> Edited by burriana on Friday 21st January 13:57
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