Discs on road bikes
Discussion
Is it worth consolidating this onto a thread rather than on each new bike thread?
The bikes I regularly use I’ve gone from retro cantilevers on a retro MTB with slicks to Tiagra road brakes on a CAAD to promax mechanical discs on my Whyte. Currently all the rim braked bikes have similar Koolstop pads and offer adequate power in the dry and some pretty exhilarating moments of absolutely zero braking in rain or really wet rides.
Moving onto the budget discs has been a real eye-opener. I can now stop in the wet, and stop quickly. There’s so much less mess, and the disc is getting worn out not the rims. I now realise that the Gatorskins that are my default choice of commuting tyre (for their puncture resistance) actually have a lot more grip in the wet than they felt like they had with the rim brakes.
I’ve never actually used a hydraulic system but I’m happy with the vast improvement that the cheap mechanical disc system has given. Right now, if I were to buy another bike that would be used for leisure and commuting, all weathers, all year round – discs would be an absolute must have.
So what way is it going to go?
Cabled systems seem to be the simplest way of doing it – but they lack the power and modulation of the hydraulic system - by all accounts.
I’m not sure if I can be bothered with the gopping shifter units and potential issues you get with maintaining the hydraulic system.
I like the look of the cable to hydraulic calliper system for convenience but it could be a half-way house?
Will it get to the point with electronic shifting meaning that changing gear ceases to become a focus of the shifter unit and actually you’ll end up with a sort of universal hydraulic reservoir and lever that can talk to any type or speed of derailleur to change gear?
It seems that often the aero or aesthetic advantages of deep carbon rims are to the detriment of actually being able to stop the bike in the wet – presumably discs would be the answer.
Would it be better to stick to old-fashioned cables for the all-weather bikes that might be used or left out in the rain for long periods of time?
I know that good rim brakes are fine though and if I was to get a proper road bike to be mainly used in the dry, I’d be more than happy without discs, but then I suppose I’d be a bit gutted that the best bike I had would not get used in crap weather over something I know can stop better.
I know one of the reason that this is all still up in the air is pro use and a lack of UCI approval but apart from some really wet stages with a lot of descending the pros probably need them a lot less than we do. Especially as the bikes used in competitions get fixed, cleaned and fettled every night.
The bikes I regularly use I’ve gone from retro cantilevers on a retro MTB with slicks to Tiagra road brakes on a CAAD to promax mechanical discs on my Whyte. Currently all the rim braked bikes have similar Koolstop pads and offer adequate power in the dry and some pretty exhilarating moments of absolutely zero braking in rain or really wet rides.
Moving onto the budget discs has been a real eye-opener. I can now stop in the wet, and stop quickly. There’s so much less mess, and the disc is getting worn out not the rims. I now realise that the Gatorskins that are my default choice of commuting tyre (for their puncture resistance) actually have a lot more grip in the wet than they felt like they had with the rim brakes.
I’ve never actually used a hydraulic system but I’m happy with the vast improvement that the cheap mechanical disc system has given. Right now, if I were to buy another bike that would be used for leisure and commuting, all weathers, all year round – discs would be an absolute must have.
So what way is it going to go?
Cabled systems seem to be the simplest way of doing it – but they lack the power and modulation of the hydraulic system - by all accounts.
I’m not sure if I can be bothered with the gopping shifter units and potential issues you get with maintaining the hydraulic system.
I like the look of the cable to hydraulic calliper system for convenience but it could be a half-way house?
Will it get to the point with electronic shifting meaning that changing gear ceases to become a focus of the shifter unit and actually you’ll end up with a sort of universal hydraulic reservoir and lever that can talk to any type or speed of derailleur to change gear?
It seems that often the aero or aesthetic advantages of deep carbon rims are to the detriment of actually being able to stop the bike in the wet – presumably discs would be the answer.
Would it be better to stick to old-fashioned cables for the all-weather bikes that might be used or left out in the rain for long periods of time?
I know that good rim brakes are fine though and if I was to get a proper road bike to be mainly used in the dry, I’d be more than happy without discs, but then I suppose I’d be a bit gutted that the best bike I had would not get used in crap weather over something I know can stop better.
I know one of the reason that this is all still up in the air is pro use and a lack of UCI approval but apart from some really wet stages with a lot of descending the pros probably need them a lot less than we do. Especially as the bikes used in competitions get fixed, cleaned and fettled every night.
There's cable-activated hydraulics like the TRP HY/RD ( http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/... ). Can't remember them off the top of my head but there's a few bikes coming with them now. Or there's the Hope V-Twin system if you have the cash.
Shimano RS685 STIs look fine to me, bleeding process is the same as MTB stuff (very, very easy if you follow the instructions) likewise things like shortening hoses. People seem to think it's way harder than it is. I'm waiting for next year for it to flow down a price bracket or two though.
No worries at all about hydraulics in the wet - much better than cables in that regard. I accidentally left a set of new Shimano MTB brakes in a plastic box under the hole in my garage roof so they were submerged for a couple of weeks. Dried them out and used them, no issues at all.
It'll happen everywhere, pros included. Headache at the moment is around all the various standards for spare wheels, etc - not just disc sizes and manufacturers but QR/bolt-through issues too.
Shimano RS685 STIs look fine to me, bleeding process is the same as MTB stuff (very, very easy if you follow the instructions) likewise things like shortening hoses. People seem to think it's way harder than it is. I'm waiting for next year for it to flow down a price bracket or two though.
No worries at all about hydraulics in the wet - much better than cables in that regard. I accidentally left a set of new Shimano MTB brakes in a plastic box under the hole in my garage roof so they were submerged for a couple of weeks. Dried them out and used them, no issues at all.
It'll happen everywhere, pros included. Headache at the moment is around all the various standards for spare wheels, etc - not just disc sizes and manufacturers but QR/bolt-through issues too.
sjg said:
No worries at all about hydraulics in the wet - much better than cables in that regard. I accidentally left a set of new Shimano MTB brakes in a plastic box under the hole in my garage roof so they were submerged for a couple of weeks. Dried them out and used them, no issues at all.
Sorry that was unclear - I was thinking about the electronic shifting + hyrdaulic combination and it's durablilty in the elements. Cant see the point personally. My "best" bike will always be the summer/dry day bike and even then I've ridden it in awful conditions whenI have been caught in the rain and never felt the need for the increased stopping power that discs offer. My commuter has rim brakes and I wipe the rims down most nights which will prolong the life of the rims so for me discs offer no greater performance and are probably no cheaper. I get it that the discs and pads are consumales and save the rims but quality discs and pads arent that cheap so I question how much the overall saving is.
All the aero geeks must shake their heads in despair after spending ages in wind tunnels optimising tube profile just to find the martketing team have stuck a caliper on the side of the fork to try and flog some more bikes....
I think the UCI have an issue regarding discs in the event of a crash, a freak fall on a disc could easily slice open an arm or a leg. I'm not saying that couldnt already happen but the front disc would be quite exposed in a crash and cause a serious injury.
All the aero geeks must shake their heads in despair after spending ages in wind tunnels optimising tube profile just to find the martketing team have stuck a caliper on the side of the fork to try and flog some more bikes....
I think the UCI have an issue regarding discs in the event of a crash, a freak fall on a disc could easily slice open an arm or a leg. I'm not saying that couldnt already happen but the front disc would be quite exposed in a crash and cause a serious injury.
pablo said:
I think the UCI have an issue regarding discs in the event of a crash, a freak fall on a disc could easily slice open an arm or a leg. I'm not saying that couldnt already happen but the front disc would be quite exposed in a crash and cause a serious injury.
The UCI have a lot of concern over them and their use in road racing for quite a few reasons. 1 being the potential you mention, decent speeds getting higher due to the ability to stop on discs and a few others I can't remember.They relented in CX due the average speed being slower, and pile ups happening at near standstill so risks are very much reduced.
Commuting or winter riding, especially if hilly , I can see the benefit
Summer/better weather , then definitely no for me. I have cheap Miche callipers and £2 Tekro pads on my quickest road bike and they stop me fine, plus I like to keep things simple and straightforward. Maybe on 15% -25% descents I get some brake fade , but not worth the hassle of disks and I'm sure better pads would solve this.
Could get messy on club rides if some of the pack have much much better brakes than others as well, although I cant see this being much of an issue
Summer/better weather , then definitely no for me. I have cheap Miche callipers and £2 Tekro pads on my quickest road bike and they stop me fine, plus I like to keep things simple and straightforward. Maybe on 15% -25% descents I get some brake fade , but not worth the hassle of disks and I'm sure better pads would solve this.
Could get messy on club rides if some of the pack have much much better brakes than others as well, although I cant see this being much of an issue
I've been running cabled Avid BB7 brakes on a road bike for almost a year now, and the benefits aren't just wet weather and ultimate stopping power. For me the main advantage is the modulation and feel on big descents, I can approach a corner much quicker because I have the confidence that the brakes are going to slow me down predictably and reliably every time. With rim brakes they're much more binary and harder to just release a little bit of braking to stop a lock up without compromising the stopping distance.
I'm sure the bike makers will lobby the UCI in the next couple of years to allow discs in racing as it'll help drive sales of new road bikes, but for serious race bikes there's still an issue with chain alignment and the 135mm hub which seems to have been universally adopted.
I'm sure the bike makers will lobby the UCI in the next couple of years to allow discs in racing as it'll help drive sales of new road bikes, but for serious race bikes there's still an issue with chain alignment and the 135mm hub which seems to have been universally adopted.
AyBee said:
So do you think the UCI will ever allow discs?
The Paris-Roubaix in 2016 is apparently to be a disc test event. They run specific bikes for anyway, so not a bad choice to try it out. The rules and standards around it will take at least that long to work out, plus allow Campag and SRAM to catch up with theirs.It'll happen, just as it did in MTB and later cyclocross.
Edited by sjg on Tuesday 2nd December 15:58
AyBee said:
So do you think the UCI will ever allow discs?
Yes. They will probably want to follow the trend in normal road bikes. You can compare it to MotoGP. All three classes were eventually moved from two stroke to four stroke, as it had no real resemblance of what the average consumer was buying. IE, not many people buying two strokes.
I don't see why the discs can't be fitted with a shroud. I appreciate that this will add valuable grams, but it would stop a hot disc slicing someone's arm off in an accident.
Hydraulic callipers seemed to much more evident in this year's TDF, so maybe they have ironed some of the kinks out there.
jamiebae said:
I've been running cabled Avid BB7 brakes on a road bike for almost a year now, and the benefits aren't just wet weather and ultimate stopping power. For me the main advantage is the modulation and feel on big descents, I can approach a corner much quicker because I have the confidence that the brakes are going to slow me down predictably and reliably every time. With rim brakes they're much more binary and harder to just release a little bit of braking to stop a lock up without compromising the stopping distance.
I'm sure the bike makers will lobby the UCI in the next couple of years to allow discs in racing as it'll help drive sales of new road bikes, but for serious race bikes there's still an issue with chain alignment and the 135mm hub which seems to have been universally adopted.
Ditto here.I'm sure the bike makers will lobby the UCI in the next couple of years to allow discs in racing as it'll help drive sales of new road bikes, but for serious race bikes there's still an issue with chain alignment and the 135mm hub which seems to have been universally adopted.
A well set up set of BB7R brakes is superior to the best rim brakes in the dry. Not by a lot admittedly.
The moment it's wet - game changer.
The worse the conditions the more advantage discs have.
I want hydraulics, however the cost issue is holding me back right now. That wont be for long I'm sure.
I've tried HY-RD setups, however they seem to have a lot of dead lever movement before they bite.
I've only tried the hope Vtwin on a static hope bike at the CX world cup round on display but it seemed promising. will be looking into that if I don't encounter a Rival Hydro groupset in the new year sales.
pablo said:
I'm sure the Manufacturers are already pushing the UCI for discs to become race legal because its a huge selling point and millions of people only need a small excuse to justify spending money on shiny new bikes! 
Though to be fair, whilst I've rarely felt discs essential for most UK roads, steep, long, twisting descents in the Lakes are a different matter - particularly in wet weather at 95kg.
After a few hours riding on damp Cumbrian B roads, rims and pads get coated with sufficient dirt to become very unresponsive or completely overcome in some instances in my experience - generally when confronted by a Navara with bullbars on on a steep, narrow descent!
I want powerful, fade free brakes that work immediately in such conditions. Not such an issue with a lighter rider and/or slower speeds I know but ideal for heavier riders who like descending.
Similarly I find completely slick tyres, though great in the wet elsewhere, less effective than, say a herringbone tread to help displace the silt, cow muck, leaves, pine needles & gravel frequently washed onto roads in this area in particular. Puddles can be particularly effective at concealing these surfaces along with potholes.
As I like to do my road riding on such routes, discs are a good option for me. You can swap wheelsets between Road/CX/Hybrid/29er too.
I've noticed a lot of riders recently mention about the cost of hydraulic disc brakes yet they will happily spend a small fortune on a seat post or bottle cage!
They are becoming more mainstream on bikes for sale so it will get to a stage where the UCI will have to give in. As for protecting discs some motoX bikes run them and I believe THE made a mountain bike version, so would be quite a simple fix to please the UCI, however I'd be more concerned with spokes than a disc.
They are becoming more mainstream on bikes for sale so it will get to a stage where the UCI will have to give in. As for protecting discs some motoX bikes run them and I believe THE made a mountain bike version, so would be quite a simple fix to please the UCI, however I'd be more concerned with spokes than a disc.
I think the safety issue with discs is heat as well as sharp rotating bits of metal. A few weeks ago I went on a big ride around Ticino and Lake Como and on a descent down the other side of a cat 1 climb I could feel the heat rising from the front brake with my hands still on the bars so I certainly wouldn't want that landing on top of me in a big crash in the peloton and burning through my thigh.
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