O/T any legal chappies here
Discussion
I have been working here for the last 7 years. I have had and signed a contract that says that I have to give 1 months notice to leave. Since February this year they have wanted all managers including me to sign a new contract that states 3 months notice. If I never signed that contract can they enforce the 3 months notice if I want to leave now in a month????
thanks!
thanks!
I am not a current lawyer, but did a law degree.
Basically, if it is a written contract you will generally need to have signed it, therefore the 3 month notice period will not hold.
However, if you *verbally* agreed to the contract, as in 'yeah, 3 months is fine' then it gets trickier, as if they can prove this they could hold you to this oral agreement. Basically, you can make a verbal contract with someone and it will stand up in court if proved.
Maybe a practising lawyer can confirm.
Cheers
Domster
Basically, if it is a written contract you will generally need to have signed it, therefore the 3 month notice period will not hold.
However, if you *verbally* agreed to the contract, as in 'yeah, 3 months is fine' then it gets trickier, as if they can prove this they could hold you to this oral agreement. Basically, you can make a verbal contract with someone and it will stand up in court if proved.
Maybe a practising lawyer can confirm.
Cheers
Domster
I was told, in a previous job, that since I continued to work under the changed contract, I had implicitly agreed to the terms. This explained why they had ignored my request to discuss this.
A mate of mine got out of this by saying fine, I will give you three months notice, and then asking what the policy was for disgruntled employees. On being told that they were released immeadiately, he told them that in one months time, he would be a disgruntled employee. They agreed to his one month!
Hope this helps,
C
A mate of mine got out of this by saying fine, I will give you three months notice, and then asking what the policy was for disgruntled employees. On being told that they were released immeadiately, he told them that in one months time, he would be a disgruntled employee. They agreed to his one month!
Hope this helps,
C
quote:
Have you tried telling them you're going to a rival firm ? You usualy get escorted to the door there and then
This is true of sales jobscertainly – just make sure you've the disk with your sales contacts on when you leave
Many a time when I've been to lunch and come back to see the empty desk of someone who 'resigned'. Years ago, I had to sack one of the design tram at the place where I worked. She then had a 'leaving interview' with the MD – ended up the same day as being employed as our 'sales girl' with company car. 
I was 
Good story, a guy who used to be Ass Ed of a big sports mag was flogging stories from the news teams to various websites and making a small fortune on the side. Bosses couldn't understand how the web sites were gettting the quotes etc. so they put different stories out in the office to certain people. This particular story was then seen on a web site still with the mistakes typed in on the original copy (so not even subbed). The guy was bang to rights. Resigned (not sacked you hear). What's he doing now? Sports reporter on one of the daily red tops!! Fecking joke.
Mike (not in sales, or a reporter)
quote:Out of interest Bill what are your concerns with having a 3 month notice period? is it that you ar elikely to leave in the near future, in which case just get out now, it is unlikely they will enforce the 3 months period. Of course it works both ways, which means your employer has to give you 3 months notice to quit, and if they want you to leave immediatly they have to give you 3 months pay which is (probabaly) tax free. I would n't have a problem with a 3 month contract at a company I was reasonably happy at - which after 7 years I guess you are? Rich...
...a new contract that states 3 months notice.
I still don't think they can get you on the 'working under a new contract implies that you have accepted it'.
This would be like saying that if you hung around a car showroom long enough and took a test drive then you had 'implicitly' accepted the showroom's offer to buy that car.
i.e. they may try it on, but it won't stick.
It would be wise to maybe voice a concern about the contract, though, so they couldn't even play the 'implied' card. If you say that you are 'unsure whether the contract is in my best interests, and will continue to work under the terms of my old one until I have a chance to discuss it with management further' you should be OK.
Remember that contracts are about offer and acceptance. They made the offer - did you make the acceptance, implied or otherwise?
Working under a new contract may not necessarily mean that you have accepted it.
Hope this helps
Domster
This would be like saying that if you hung around a car showroom long enough and took a test drive then you had 'implicitly' accepted the showroom's offer to buy that car.
i.e. they may try it on, but it won't stick.
It would be wise to maybe voice a concern about the contract, though, so they couldn't even play the 'implied' card. If you say that you are 'unsure whether the contract is in my best interests, and will continue to work under the terms of my old one until I have a chance to discuss it with management further' you should be OK.
Remember that contracts are about offer and acceptance. They made the offer - did you make the acceptance, implied or otherwise?
Working under a new contract may not necessarily mean that you have accepted it.
Hope this helps
Domster
quote:
quote:Out of interest Bill what are your concerns with having a 3 month notice period? is it that you ar elikely to leave in the near future, in which case just get out now, it is unlikely they will enforce the 3 months period. Of course it works both ways, which means your employer has to give you 3 months notice to quit, and if they want you to leave immediatly they have to give you 3 months pay which is (probabaly) tax free. I would n't have a problem with a 3 month contract at a company I was reasonably happy at - which after 7 years I guess you are? Rich...
...a new contract that states 3 months notice.
I'm going travelling round the world and want to leave in 5 weeks time - there is a chance they would have said go anyway after 4 weeks but I didnt want to risk it. Change of managemnet here means I hate the place but am trying to leave "nicely" its just I'm trying to preempt them as I do not want to spend 3 months here without any training ( I'm in IT ) or responsibilties etc etc. I resigned yesterday.
As you're off anyway, then assuming you don't want to go back to them when you return from your travels, then just leave, but put it in writing that you have not signed the 3 month notice contract and are offering your resignation under your existing contract of employment. Shouldn't be a problem
just worried about the reference otherwise I'd tell them where to stick it. Have I got any assurance over a good reference?? Can I work my arse off the next 4 weeks helping the transition and then find they back stab me with a bad reference??? I like to think I've done a v good job here but my current boss is v unpredictable and a 
Bill, in my experience I wouldn't worry too much about references. When you speak to any new employers you can always say you were at your last job for 7 years until the management cahnged to bunch of arseholes. Could you give them your previous manager as a reference? What about customers or other contacts all of whom will give a better reference than your current knob of a boss? I have always been honest in intereviews - if my last boss was a knob I just say thats why I left. NOt a problem.
They wouldn't - possibly couldn't, certainly shouldn't - do that without you agreeing first. Also an employer almost never asks for references unless they've virtually decided to offer you the job anyway - in which case, you can dictate who they approach for references.
For a start, the person the approach has to know that they are going to approach them. And the only person who can tell them that is you.
For a start, the person the approach has to know that they are going to approach them. And the only person who can tell them that is you.
billb,
Domster is right in his first post.
Provided that the written contract doesn't cross refer to some other terms (eg. employee handbook), the only terms of your employment are in the one contract.
Generally, changing a written employment contract merely by oral agreement is not sufficient (although this will in part depend on the industry you work in, ie. whether written contracts are the norm). In the vast majority of cases, if you have a written contract that specifically states a 1 month notice period, this will stand unless/until you sign a contract containing a 3 month notice provision.
Hope this helps,
Nick
Domster is right in his first post.
Provided that the written contract doesn't cross refer to some other terms (eg. employee handbook), the only terms of your employment are in the one contract.
Generally, changing a written employment contract merely by oral agreement is not sufficient (although this will in part depend on the industry you work in, ie. whether written contracts are the norm). In the vast majority of cases, if you have a written contract that specifically states a 1 month notice period, this will stand unless/until you sign a contract containing a 3 month notice provision.
Hope this helps,
Nick
quote:
billb,
Domster is right in his first post.
Provided that the written contract doesn't cross refer to some other terms (eg. employee handbook), the only terms of your employment are in the one contract.
Generally, changing a written employment contract merely by oral agreement is not sufficient (although this will in part depend on the industry you work in, ie. whether written contracts are the norm). In the vast majority of cases, if you have a written contract that specifically states a 1 month notice period, this will stand unless/until you sign a contract containing a 3 month notice provision.
Hope this helps,
Nick
Unless they sent a letter with the details of the contract changes that stated you had a time period to raise objections and this has now passed!
And Domster, the car showroom analogy is incorrect, the showroom is not offering for sale it is actually an 'invitation to treat'. The punter makes the offer to 'buy' which the showroom accepts or declines.
My previous note still holds even if they give you notification of a 3-month notice period. On the whole, you cannot unilaterally alter an employment contract, whether orally or by writing.
The idea that you can accept a change in a contract merely by a course of conduct is correct - however, this does not usually work for employment contracts. As I said above, if it is a written contract then you need something in writing to vary it.
The idea that you can accept a change in a contract merely by a course of conduct is correct - however, this does not usually work for employment contracts. As I said above, if it is a written contract then you need something in writing to vary it.
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