981 Cayman at Spa
981 Cayman at Spa
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ravon

Original Poster:

607 posts

300 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
quotequote all
Just home from the RMA two day event at Spa Francochamps, not really a great circuit to show off the Cayman's prowess, it's just lacking in power. I realise it's half the price of a GT3, but it's a little disappointing to see how the Cayman is completely demolished by all GT3 variants, not only in straight line performance but also in grip, but it's got relatively small tyres too. It's still a great car, but for my twilight years of track day driving it needs a substantial power boost . Very frustrating to think that it's all there in the car now, but for some software and throttle body ?

mrdemon

21,146 posts

283 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
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I don't have issues with grip and your corner speed should be faster and your braking later.

the straights are long though and only bhp can over come that

it is a GT3 circuit though, and at last they can use their long ratio's :-)

put some camber on it and a set of cup 2's and then see if they can stay with you at cadwell park.

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 24th September 21:29

keep it lit

3,388 posts

185 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
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mrdemon said:
I don't have issues & your corner speed should be faster and your braking later
all good ones wink

aelord

337 posts

243 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
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mrdemon said:
I don't have issues with grip and your corner speed should be faster and your braking later.

the straights are long though and only bhp can over come that

it is a GT3 circuit though, and at last they can use their long ratio's :-)

put some camber on it and a set of cup 2's and then see if they can stay with you at cadwell park.

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 24th September 21:29
What tyres and pressures you run for road work Mr D? I have the o/e michelins on presently and 2.2 bar. It is a bit skittish on poor b roads. Thinking of lowering pressure a tad to start with.

Steve Rance

5,453 posts

249 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
quotequote all
mrdemon said:
I don't have issues with grip and your corner speed should be faster and your braking later.

the straights are long though and only bhp can over come that

it is a GT3 circuit though, and at last they can use their long ratio's :-)

put some camber on it and a set of cup 2's and then see if they can stay with you at cadwell park.

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 24th September 21:29
Mmm.. Well I suppose if you say it enough times people may believe you Old Boy.

ravon

Original Poster:

607 posts

300 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
quotequote all
Thanks Mr.Demon, maybe I need some help from you on the driving front ? I've driven it at Donington, where it was really excellent, but the brakes ( steel ) got very noisy after seven or eight laps, at Brands Hatch Indy, again excellent, Circuit de Bretagne, again excellent, and strangely it feels great on Silverstone GP, but the long climb at Spa really tells. At Spa I ran on the OEM fit 20" Pirelli and also some 18" Toyo 888's, which initially seemed excellent but quickly appeared to "go off".

The point of my post was really to say what a shame that latent power can't be liberated, but no doubt given time the tuners will get around the software lock ?

ellroy

7,592 posts

243 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
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Base 981 or S out of interest?

ravon

Original Poster:

607 posts

300 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
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Sorry, yes an S, with PDK.

mrdemon

21,146 posts

283 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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Pirelli go off after about 1 lap and with oem camber you prob bent back the outter tred.
The 888 is a old tyres now, I am moving to cup2 next year :-)
The S with PDK is a fast car but with the BHp at 320 above 100mph the larger bhp cars do really pull away on the straights.

Don't get scared of the GT3 banter here as on a smaller track they will be having issues vs yours, the euro gt3 hard core boys don't run stock gt3’s. Most running big camber and cups. And a lot running trick shocks.

I run RS 29 pads also which feel great and on the road in my R run 30/31 psi I don't track the R though but still run no front toe and neg -1.2 front camber. Also I would fit motel 660 for track. And up he camber to -1.8 if a road car or -2.5 if more a track car.


The Pirelli are really bad for track they just over heat.

Your car prob a bit quicker than a 996 or even a 997.1 gt3 to 90mph with PDK and it will hold more mid corner speed.
spa is a fun visit but def a GT3 track.
That's a gts with stock st tyres and no camber vs a gt3 with a good set up and better tyres.
Gts would have won with camber and tyres.

At the end of the day we run road cars and have a laugh on track, the gt3 boys have track cars which are not so great on the road.
a lot of GT3 are so track set up they turn up on trailers which imo is daft.

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/292816/...

lets hope the GT4/new R gets the BHP the car can use. :-)




Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 25th September 08:33

s_mcneil

995 posts

213 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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mrdemon said:
At the end of the day we run road cars and have a laugh on track, the gt3 boys have track cars which fail on the road.
That's your opinion based on your experience with a GT3. My opinion based on my experience with a Cayman was it is comparatively dull and bland on the road.

Each to their own.

mrdemon

21,146 posts

283 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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s_mcneil said:
That's your opinion based on your experience with a GT3. My opinion based on my experience with a Cayman was it is comparatively dull and bland on the road.

Each to their own.
I did change my comment but too late it seems lol

Spa is a GT3 track and prob the best track for a GT3, Silverstone is also a power track now.

I do wonder how GT3 owners get to love their cars on the road, it was one of the most frustrating car owner ship buys I have had.
Loved the car hated the way it was just not accessible, every drive was total frustration, where in the R most drives are fun and exciting.

there are more and more ex GT3 owner who drives R's now and will agree with me.

I even look at GT3 adds and want another and then have to think long and hard why I sold mine and it puts me right off owning another.

Cayman dull. not a chance, it's one of the best on road driver cars you can buy in R form. if not "THE BEST"

V8KSN

4,713 posts

202 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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mrdemon said:
At the end of the day we run road cars and have a laugh on track, the gt3 boys have track cars which are not so great on the road.
In the interest of balance for anyone reading this thread, I have just done 2700 odd miles across Europe on the ROAD in a 997.1 GT3 and it was GREAT fun with a LOT of laughs! The car was (and is) perfect for me!

MrDemon, we all know you dont like GT3's, its getting quite boring now!


mrdemon

21,146 posts

283 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
V8KSN said:
In the interest of balance for anyone reading this thread, I have just done 2700 odd miles across Europe on the ROAD in a 997.1 GT3 and it was GREAT fun with a LOT of laughs! The car was (and is) perfect for me!

MrDemon, we all know you dont like GT3's, its getting quite boring now!

seawise

2,229 posts

224 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
ravon said:
Just home from the RMA two day event at Spa Francochamps, not really a great circuit to show off the Cayman's prowess, it's just lacking in power. I realise it's half the price of a GT3, but it's a little disappointing to see how the Cayman is completely demolished by all GT3 variants, not only in straight line performance but also in grip, but it's got relatively small tyres too. It's still a great car, but for my twilight years of track day driving it needs a substantial power boost . Very frustrating to think that it's all there in the car now, but for some software and throttle body ?
Sorry to hear that - I was there on Monday driving my 996 RS and having go's in a pals 964 RS. what a glorious day it was, and some proper kit on the track. I've driven a Cayman S round Spa before, and a Boxster spyder. agree both were not ideally suited to this circuit, simply not fast enough and too composed in the high speed corners to be much fun. sounds like you have a hankering for a GT3, go for it, I doubt you'll regret the decision. Also whilst a few people trailer their GT3's to the circuit, I don't as I find it a perfectly habitable road car as well, especially for long distance use. I run standard Pilot Sport tyres, not CUPs, as I don't want to worry about aquaplaning off Belgium autoroutes. Drove home from Spa in 5 hours and was perfectly refreshed when I got out. And on the circuit, it's unbelievably exciting, no other road car competes in my experience.

boxsey

3,578 posts

228 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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While I agree it is a great track for GT3s I don't think it's necessary to have a GT3 to enjoy it. Spa is now an annual trip for our 964 bunch. We don't go anywhere near as fast but I'll wager we have just as much fun. Spa is track day nirvana that drags us back again and again. There's certainly no shortage in interest smile


Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

264 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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981s are quick cars, not fast cars. You're never going to reach the speed of light in a car that weight with 320 bhp. Mind you, the PDK box can get them shifting up the road pretty smartly! Much quicker in the real world than my manual car.

V8KSN

4,713 posts

202 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
mrdemon said:
V8KSN said:
In the interest of balance for anyone reading this thread, I have just done 2700 odd miles across Europe on the ROAD in a 997.1 GT3 and it was GREAT fun with a LOT of laughs! The car was (and is) perfect for me!

MrDemon, we all know you dont like GT3's, its getting quite boring now!
rolleyes

braddo

11,898 posts

206 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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boxsey said:
While I agree it is a great track for GT3s I don't think it's necessary to have a GT3 to enjoy it. Spa is now an annual trip for our 964 bunch. We don't go anywhere near as fast but I'll wager we have just as much fun. Spa is track day nirvana that drags us back again and again. There's certainly no shortage in interest smile

On the weekend I spotted a yellow 964 like on the left of this photo, around the Brands Hatch/Kent area. smile

braddo

11,898 posts

206 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
mrdemon said:
That's a gts with stock st tyres and no camber vs a gt3 with a good set up and better tyres.
Gts would have won with camber and tyres.

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/292816/...
While taking nothing away from how impressive the Cayman's performance in the video is, the owner of the GT3 has the car set up for his own preferences and not for ultimate pace, as was discussed in the thread about this evo video.

readit

Heaven forbid that the video be just a bit of fun. For more objective nerd factor there was an interesting feature by a US magazine comparing a Cayman R and GT3 and the whole rear-engined vs mid-engined thing.

boxsey

3,578 posts

228 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
braddo said:
On the weekend I spotted a yellow 964 like on the left of this photo, around the Brands Hatch/Kent area. smile
Braddo, probably one and the same. It's actually a 964RS and he lives down that way. smile