Discussion
Gutten abend porsche people! My first visit in here, don't spit on me for having a TVR please! 
After going around in circles for weeks as to what car to buy I've now found myself looking at 911s
(Long and miserable story trying to buy and f type and big disappointment after driving a vantage)
Having done the usual internet research and pondering over the bargain 996 turbos out there I've decided it needs to be a 997, ideally a .2 but I think I may be pushing the budget a bit there and they certainly seem a little thinner on the ground.
I would like to spend circa 50k however can go to 70k if absolutely needed for the right car.
But the the purposes of this, let's assume a hard limit of 55k
Having spoken with a few specialist and browsing the classifieds it would seem that the best bang for buck would be a 997.1 turbo manual.
It's without many of the reliability issues that beset the non turbo 997.1's (different engine?) and seems a good bet (as good as these things can be) from a residual value perspective if I decide to sell in a few years.
Have I missed something or does that sound about right?
50k-ish seems to get a cracker of a 2006-2008 turbo dependant on spec and mileage.
After going around in circles for weeks as to what car to buy I've now found myself looking at 911s
(Long and miserable story trying to buy and f type and big disappointment after driving a vantage)
Having done the usual internet research and pondering over the bargain 996 turbos out there I've decided it needs to be a 997, ideally a .2 but I think I may be pushing the budget a bit there and they certainly seem a little thinner on the ground.
I would like to spend circa 50k however can go to 70k if absolutely needed for the right car.
But the the purposes of this, let's assume a hard limit of 55k
Having spoken with a few specialist and browsing the classifieds it would seem that the best bang for buck would be a 997.1 turbo manual.
It's without many of the reliability issues that beset the non turbo 997.1's (different engine?) and seems a good bet (as good as these things can be) from a residual value perspective if I decide to sell in a few years.
Have I missed something or does that sound about right?
50k-ish seems to get a cracker of a 2006-2008 turbo dependant on spec and mileage.
As others have said, a 2wd GTS comes highly recommended and not only would offer most driving involvement of 911s at this price but would be best long term residually too....in fact prices have actually risen this year no doubt boosted by the 'analogue boom' and dearth of good 997 GT3s at sensible money.......
I am more than happy with my 4GTS with PDK, it really is a great mix between standard and more hardcore GT3. Use it as my daily and have done 43k in 2 and a half years. easy and relaxed in traffic, flip into sport and use the paddles on windy roads or sport with sport damper settings for autobahns (naturally I only enjoy this aspect in Germany). Even did 3 laps of Le Mans at the 2012 Classic - great. Only downside I can think of is that tyre roar on motorways which can be a bit wearing on long journeys but hey, a small price to pay for such great car. CMD
Filtering the search results to find the "real" GTS's is a challenge!
Am I right in saying the GTS is ONLY a 997.2 car onwards, so filtering from 2010/11 onwards will help sort the wheat from the chaff?
Auto trader seems to match GT3 and S and 4S with GTS... sigh...
Bit of wading later... found a few...
Will arrange to go and have a look! Cheers
Am I right in saying the GTS is ONLY a 997.2 car onwards, so filtering from 2010/11 onwards will help sort the wheat from the chaff?
Auto trader seems to match GT3 and S and 4S with GTS... sigh...
Bit of wading later... found a few...
Will arrange to go and have a look! Cheers
Edited by ILoveMondeo on Saturday 21st June 09:17
The first 997 I extensively drove was a manual 997.1 S with sport suspension back in 2005 and I really liked it. But in a decade the level of performance increased and I reckon a 997.1 S feels not that fast in straight line nowadays.
The model I managed to buy years later was fairly different a 997.1 4S cab manual with 381ps power kit. It was a car that a suffered an engine failure and replacement by Porsche but I knew the first owner and all the story so the descending tempting price (in the suspicious Italian market there was no way to sell it at original price).I had no reliability issues but the added weight and less rigidity of the cab plus the less clean steering due to 4wd spoiled the driving experience for me, so I can’t recommend it (kept less than a year)
The 997 GTS in 2wd-manual combination is tempting but it doesn’t make you smile like a GT3, I nearly bought a GTS on delivery miles following an attracting financing proposal from Porsche Italy but I was curious about the 991…I didn’t want to be the last man on earth to buy a new GTS. Now that we all know how the 991 is so different car, I guess that 997 final proposals like the GTS will retain some interest among Porsche fans for a long time.
GT3s are a bit hardcore and pricey but they are absolutely stunning in my experience (never drove a 4.0 but I managed to try all the other 4 997 versions including the RSs)
About turbo, a German friend of mine who owned first a 997.1 turbo and then a 997.2 turbo (both manual) thinks that the improvements are enormous but he let me drive his car and I haven’t appreciated all that difference but my 997.1 turbo driving memory wasn’t fresh. It felt insanely fast in gear…
About PDK I think that on 991 it definitely has become default choice but on the 997 I would look for a manual.
To sum up:
- Any GT3 for driving pleasure (but it is off budget)
- GTS most sensible choice (and maybe interesting future residuals)
- Turbo for “overtaking pleasure” performance
The model I managed to buy years later was fairly different a 997.1 4S cab manual with 381ps power kit. It was a car that a suffered an engine failure and replacement by Porsche but I knew the first owner and all the story so the descending tempting price (in the suspicious Italian market there was no way to sell it at original price).I had no reliability issues but the added weight and less rigidity of the cab plus the less clean steering due to 4wd spoiled the driving experience for me, so I can’t recommend it (kept less than a year)
The 997 GTS in 2wd-manual combination is tempting but it doesn’t make you smile like a GT3, I nearly bought a GTS on delivery miles following an attracting financing proposal from Porsche Italy but I was curious about the 991…I didn’t want to be the last man on earth to buy a new GTS. Now that we all know how the 991 is so different car, I guess that 997 final proposals like the GTS will retain some interest among Porsche fans for a long time.
GT3s are a bit hardcore and pricey but they are absolutely stunning in my experience (never drove a 4.0 but I managed to try all the other 4 997 versions including the RSs)
About turbo, a German friend of mine who owned first a 997.1 turbo and then a 997.2 turbo (both manual) thinks that the improvements are enormous but he let me drive his car and I haven’t appreciated all that difference but my 997.1 turbo driving memory wasn’t fresh. It felt insanely fast in gear…
About PDK I think that on 991 it definitely has become default choice but on the 997 I would look for a manual.
To sum up:
- Any GT3 for driving pleasure (but it is off budget)
- GTS most sensible choice (and maybe interesting future residuals)
- Turbo for “overtaking pleasure” performance
g7jhp said:
Is it a daily driver or weekend car and do you want manual or PDK?
You'd probably be best trying a 997.1 turbo, 997.2 C2S and 997 GTS and then deciding which floats your boat.
Sorry, I never answered this, It'll be a weekend car, sharing it's time with the Tuscan, the idea being something a little more composed and usable for long road trips and still maintaining sporty credentials when you get to the twisty bits at the end of the motorway! Rather than seat of your pants stuff the entire way.You'd probably be best trying a 997.1 turbo, 997.2 C2S and 997 GTS and then deciding which floats your boat.
PDK seems like an unnecessary expense.. a decent PDK is great, but I don't see the point in paying more for one when a manual is available for X-thousands less.
If it was to be a daily drive I think I'd gladly pay the money though.
I know it's not the cool choice, but personally the 997 c2s is my favourite 911 from a driving standpoint. Ownership is a different matter, I guess as it's just not got the cache or mystique of a Turbo or GT car. Depends what you're after.
I've had two and besides a dicky alternator no issues.
I've had two and besides a dicky alternator no issues.
mattiselvis said:
I know it's not the cool choice, but personally the 997 c2s is my favourite 911 from a driving standpoint. Ownership is a different matter, I guess as it's just not got the cache or mystique of a Turbo or GT car. Depends what you're after.
I've had two and besides a dicky alternator no issues.
Which of course puts me firmly in the "why not a cayman s" arena!I've had two and besides a dicky alternator no issues.
Porsche just have too many cars!
I spoke with a couple of dealers today about gts vs turbo and they all agreed, gts is far more involving and plenty fast and after the 3-4 seconds of sheer terror in a turbo there's not much left to do when driving on the road.
Couldn't be arsed driving around the country today so will make some appointments to see a couple of GTS's next weekend!
Couldn't be arsed driving around the country today so will make some appointments to see a couple of GTS's next weekend!
If it helps I've owned 996 GT3/ GT3 Mk2 / GT3 RS / Gen 1 997 Turbo, and now have a 2WD GTS, manual with bucket seats.
For everyday use and still being special and very 911-ish I think the GTS is a great car.
I miss the Turbo's thrust, but the Gen 2 over Gen 1 build quality and PCM upgrade make the GTS better for me.
Feels lighter and better to thread through corners than the Turbo as well.
For everyday use and still being special and very 911-ish I think the GTS is a great car.
I miss the Turbo's thrust, but the Gen 2 over Gen 1 build quality and PCM upgrade make the GTS better for me.
Feels lighter and better to thread through corners than the Turbo as well.
I'm a turbo owner gen.1 manual, so I am biased, but I do love the look of the GTS and it was something I coveted for some years. When I bought my Turbo the GTS models were still much more expensive so I ruled them out. I liked them so much I fitted my old gen.1 Carrera S Cab with GTS bumpers and wheels.
I think it's a good choice, I'm sure you will be happy when you find the right one.
My old car
I think it's a good choice, I'm sure you will be happy when you find the right one.
My old car
Edited by Isysman on Saturday 21st June 14:45
Beaver said:
If it helps I've owned 996 GT3/ GT3 Mk2 / GT3 RS / Gen 1 997 Turbo, and now have a 2WD GTS, manual with bucket seats.
For everyday use and still being special and very 911-ish I think the GTS is a great car.
I miss the Turbo's thrust, but the Gen 2 over Gen 1 build quality and PCM upgrade make the GTS better for me.
Feels lighter and better to thread through corners than the Turbo as well.
Yes it does help! Thank you.For everyday use and still being special and very 911-ish I think the GTS is a great car.
I miss the Turbo's thrust, but the Gen 2 over Gen 1 build quality and PCM upgrade make the GTS better for me.
Feels lighter and better to thread through corners than the Turbo as well.
One question that springs to mind, what are the driving aids like in a gen2 gts?
Is there a level of configuration you can do? Dial back the TC for example but not have it all the way off?
Edited by ILoveMondeo on Saturday 21st June 15:23
ILoveMondeo said:
Yes it does help! Thank you.
One question that springs to mind, what are the driving aids like in a gen2 gts?
Is there a level of configuration you can do? Dial back the TC for example but not have it all the way off?
You can press the Sport button which firms the dampers, backs off the TC (PSM) and maps the throttle response.One question that springs to mind, what are the driving aids like in a gen2 gts?
Is there a level of configuration you can do? Dial back the TC for example but not have it all the way off?
Edited by ILoveMondeo on Saturday 21st June 15:23
After that you can turn PSM off if you want - and the dampers can be switched off of Sport mode if it's too firm.
That's something that makes the older GT3s special - no PSM or Sports buttons!
Definitely go for a gen 2. GTS is a good shout or a std car with powerkit(hens teeth) Having owned a few TVRs inc a Tuscan I found my C4s abit too daily driver for a weekend car and am now in a GT3 CS which to me could be a daily drive and is special everytime. GTS is definitely the way to go if you don't want GT3...
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