£800 fines for unauthorised cycle races in a public place

[Some Gump]

So,

On PH front page is a look into the current tabloid headlines of 10k fines for speeding on the M6.

Lower down the article, it mentions fines of up to £800 for unauthorised cycle racing in a public place. Now, obviously this isn't law yet, but how open to suggestion is that? Section 86 was written to stop muppets with No Fear on the side of their Jimneys ruining green lanes and mullering horses - it more often gets used to penalise people with noisy exhausts near shopping centres....

Anyways, where do you see the line re. racing? When, exactly does a ride become a race?

[vanordinaire]

Equality and all that! If there are fines for racing on a public road, they should apply to all road users at the same rate, no exceptions.

[ewenm]

vanordinaire said:

Equality and all that! If there are fines for racing on a public road, they should apply to all road users at the same rate, no exceptions.

Yes, but that wasn't the question. When does a group ride/drive become a race? It's the definition of "racing" that is the key thing here.

[S10GTA]

What is the question?

[vanordinaire]

ewenm said:

vanordinaire said:

Equality and all that! If there are fines for racing on a public road, they should apply to all road users at the same rate, no exceptions.

Yes, but that wasn't the question. When does a group ride/drive become a race? It's the definition of "racing" that is the key thing here.

Same as the current rules for a motorised vehicle, if one is trying to beat another it's a race, doesn't need to be organised in any shape or form.

[ewenm]

vanordinaire said:

Same as the current rules for a motorised vehicle, if one is trying to beat another it's a race, doesn't need to be organised in any shape or form.

So it comes down to the subjective assessment, which makes it difficult (as it is now).

If my daughter is trying to beat me to the next lamppost on her balance bike, is that a race subject to fines? Or is there some measure of "causing a nuisance" to be added to the "unauthorised racing" criteria?

Obviously I'm being facetious but once you start bringing subjective criteria into it, everything gets difficult.

[Engineer1]

vanordinaire said:

ewenm said:

vanordinaire said:

Equality and all that! If there are fines for racing on a public road, they should apply to all road users at the same rate, no exceptions.

Yes, but that wasn't the question. When does a group ride/drive become a race? It's the definition of "racing" that is the key thing here.

Same as the current rules for a motorised vehicle, if one is trying to beat another it's a race, doesn't need to be organised in any shape or form.

Then that is virtually every social ride as someone will want to be beating someone else and the presence of a few other people will make it look like a race

[ewenm]

Engineer1 said:

Then that is virtually every social ride as someone will want to be beating someone else and the presence of a few other people will make it look like a race

Not to mention most car-club drives too...

[vanordinaire]

I'm not saying I believe the rules on racing on a public highway should be this way, it's just that they are if you are in a car or motorbike so they should be the same if you are on a pedal bike. I'd be happier if the everyone was free to race when they wanted (as long as they didn't inconvenience or endanger other road users) but as that isn't going to happen anytime soon the best we can expect is that we are all treated equally. So yes, you having a race against your child on a public road should be treated exactly as I would be if caught 'speed testing' my motorbike against someone else on a quiet motorway.

[Kermit power]

vanordinaire said:

ewenm said:

vanordinaire said:

Equality and all that! If there are fines for racing on a public road, they should apply to all road users at the same rate, no exceptions.

Yes, but that wasn't the question. When does a group ride/drive become a race? It's the definition of "racing" that is the key thing here.

Same as the current rules for a motorised vehicle, if one is trying to beat another it's a race, doesn't need to be organised in any shape or form.

Does the other vehicle have to be there at the same time for it to be a race?

I reckon these days more people "race" for segment times on Strava than actually race face to face on the roads.

[shouldbworking]

Cracking. can we use the same laws regarding leading motorbike rideouts to prosecute all kom holders on strava?

[boyse7en]

vanordinaire said:

I'd be happier if the everyone was free to race when they wanted (as long as they didn't inconvenience or endanger other road users)

I wouldn't. An on-road car/motorcycle race would be pretty dull. <Murray Walker voice>"and here he comes, he's right on the limit doing 70mph, the car in second is also doing 70mph, so can't catch up!</Mwalker>

A bicycle race or running race can be competitive yet still stay well within the legal speed limits.

vanordinaire said:

you having a race against your child on a public road should be treated exactly as I would be if caught 'speed testing' my motorbike against someone else on a quiet motorway.

They are treated equally. You can speed test your motorcycle right up to the legal maximum of 70mph on a motorway without fear of prosecution.

[otolith]

For those struggling to wrap their minds around why the two activities are treated differently;

Bicycle race goes horribly wrong:



Motorsport goes horribly wrong:

[Vocal Minority]

...on a lighter note


OKGO.

Only sensible answer

[BoRED S2upid]

shouldbworking said:

Cracking. can we use the same laws regarding leading motorbike rideouts to prosecute all kom holders on strava?

Some of them need prosecuting I swear they must be on motorbikes some of them.

[gazza285]

otolith said:

For those struggling to wrap their minds around why the two activities are treated differently;

Bicycle race goes horribly wrong:





Motorsport goes horribly wrong:

Both caused by the drivers of the cars involved?

[otolith]

As it happens, though I'm sure racers on bikes crash without help sometimes. But the key point is the consequences of being around 85kg of out of control bloke plus bike @ 25mph vs 1000kg of car @ 100mph...

[Some Gump]

vanordinaire said:

So yes, you having a race against your child on a public road should be treated exactly as I would be if caught 'speed testing' my motorbike against someone else on a quiet motorway.

Interesting interpretation.

If we're going after all road users equally, I spose we have to also include pedestrians. What is your take if 2 children decide that last one to the shop is a rotten egg?

[Mr Will]

This is probably intended to be used against alley-cat races and similar but it will no doubt end up being abused.

[vanordinaire]

Some Gump said:

vanordinaire said:

So yes, you having a race against your child on a public road should be treated exactly as I would be if caught 'speed testing' my motorbike against someone else on a quiet motorway.

Interesting interpretation.

If we're going after all road users equally, I spose we have to also include pedestrians. What is your take if 2 children decide that last one to the shop is a rotten egg?

As I said previously, I don't agree with the law but do believe that all road users should be treated equally (I've argued for this as a cyclist, a biker, a car driver and a commercial driver). There will always be a vast difference between one end of the spectrum and another and proportionality should always be considered as well as other factors such as dangerous behaviour, however if there is a law prohibiting racing on a public road then yes, it should be directed at all road users.