F12 "XX" or "GTO"
Discussion
My point was not the name but whether anyone had heard if a limited edition designed for performance (ie GTO)rather than exclusivity (ie Superamerica)will come at the end of the model run.I am assuming it will and have put in an expression of interest for that car if built.Any guesses on name ? My money was on F12 Le Mans (assuming Ferrari enter again in next couple of years)but not so sure now after the last 2 slightly silly names.
Incidentally I'm told that there will certainly be an F12 upgrade in next couple of years (think 599 HGTE).
Incidentally I'm told that there will certainly be an F12 upgrade in next couple of years (think 599 HGTE).
I was asked a direct question by a dealer whether I might ever be interested in a GTO-esque F12. Didn't sound like the question was academic, not that such a car would be a surprise.
Lukewarm to be honest, puzzle is given the 599 GTO, and the development of the 458 Speciale, I'm not sure a hardcore F12 would offer a considerable driving difference. A limited edition hardcore F12 Spider/Aperta would however tick an immediate box
Lukewarm to be honest, puzzle is given the 599 GTO, and the development of the 458 Speciale, I'm not sure a hardcore F12 would offer a considerable driving difference. A limited edition hardcore F12 Spider/Aperta would however tick an immediate box
The Speciale is a great car but not a patch on the 599 GTO for drama. It isn't loud enough, the gearbox is too slick and efficient, you don't get the whipcrack downshifts etc.
That said, I feel much more comfortable going for an enthusiastic drive of a Speciale on my favourite country roads. The GTO is too big on occasion.
The GTO doesn't really have understeer in its repertoire unless you are being insane. The Speciale is a little soft, and definately understeers, but also has a playful back end. To be honest, the 991 GT3 is a FAR better driving tool than either. It simply demolishes a challenging set of country roads for example. It is absolutely astonishing.
I binned my Speciale order. Not because of the car. But the dealer should be ashamed of themselves for cocking about with the timing of my order after I'd been felt up for paying for options I didn't really want.
I've however put a deposit down for the Speciale Spider with a different dealer. I wouldn't touch the other dealer ever again, arrogance doesn't even begin to cover it.
That said, I feel much more comfortable going for an enthusiastic drive of a Speciale on my favourite country roads. The GTO is too big on occasion.
The GTO doesn't really have understeer in its repertoire unless you are being insane. The Speciale is a little soft, and definately understeers, but also has a playful back end. To be honest, the 991 GT3 is a FAR better driving tool than either. It simply demolishes a challenging set of country roads for example. It is absolutely astonishing.
I binned my Speciale order. Not because of the car. But the dealer should be ashamed of themselves for cocking about with the timing of my order after I'd been felt up for paying for options I didn't really want.
I've however put a deposit down for the Speciale Spider with a different dealer. I wouldn't touch the other dealer ever again, arrogance doesn't even begin to cover it.
Edited by AndrewD on Saturday 7th June 23:36
AndrewD said:
The Speciale is a great car but not a patch on the 599 GTO for drama. It isn't loud enough, the gearbox is too slick and efficient, you don't get the whipcrack downshifts etc.
That said, I feel much more comfortable going for an enthusiastic drive of a Speciale on my favourite country roads. The GTO is too big on occasion.
The GTO doesn't really have understeer in its repertoire unless you are being insane. The Speciale is a little soft, and definately understeers, but also has a playful back end. To be honest, the 991 GT3 is a FAR better driving tool than either. It simply demolishes a challenging set of country roads for example. It is absolutely astonishing.
I binned my Speciale order. Not because of the car. But the dealer should be ashamed of themselves for cocking about with the timing of my order after I'd been felt up for paying for options I didn't really want.
I've however put a deposit down for the Speciale Spider with a different dealer. I wouldn't touch the other dealer ever again, arrogance doesn't even begin to cover it.
Disappointing news about your dealer's behaviour, and cancelling your Speciale order. What did they do? That said, I feel much more comfortable going for an enthusiastic drive of a Speciale on my favourite country roads. The GTO is too big on occasion.
The GTO doesn't really have understeer in its repertoire unless you are being insane. The Speciale is a little soft, and definately understeers, but also has a playful back end. To be honest, the 991 GT3 is a FAR better driving tool than either. It simply demolishes a challenging set of country roads for example. It is absolutely astonishing.
I binned my Speciale order. Not because of the car. But the dealer should be ashamed of themselves for cocking about with the timing of my order after I'd been felt up for paying for options I didn't really want.
I've however put a deposit down for the Speciale Spider with a different dealer. I wouldn't touch the other dealer ever again, arrogance doesn't even begin to cover it.
Edited by AndrewD on Saturday 7th June 23:36
My dealer had a build slot for a demo (so they told me) in July and offered it to me last month, so I sold my GTB (SOR) through them and ordered the Speciale. Hope they don't dick me around too; they're usually good as gold.
Interesting observation about the Speciale's overall performance. I've not driven one (based my decision on reports and my own positive experience of the 599 GTO vs GTB). There's a recent video of some chap driving his Speciale at the Nurburgring posted on the other site and the car seems awesome.....the driver was exceptional too. Guess I'll have to wait and see.......assuming I see it as promised!
Camlet said:
Disappointing news about your dealer's behaviour, and cancelling your Speciale order. What did they do?
My dealer had a build slot for a demo (so they told me) in July and offered it to me last month, so I sold my GTB (SOR) through them and ordered the Speciale. Hope they don't dick me around too; they're usually good as gold.
Interesting observation about the Speciale's overall performance. I've not driven one (based my decision on reports and my own positive experience of the 599 GTO vs GTB). There's a recent video of some chap driving his Speciale at the Nurburgring posted on the other site and the car seems awesome.....the driver was exceptional too. Guess I'll have to wait and see.......assuming I see it as promised!
The date mysteriously slipped to September, and then went to July (and they tried to tell me July build completion was a June slot and nothing had changed, neatly ignoring the written agreement that the car must be delivered by end June). Frankly I lost faith in the dates they gave out. Of course, I am left wondering what happened to my June slot. One can only speculate, I will never know, they never explained it. All I do know is, as far as I'm concerned, they can go find their customers in Sherwood Forest for all I care.My dealer had a build slot for a demo (so they told me) in July and offered it to me last month, so I sold my GTB (SOR) through them and ordered the Speciale. Hope they don't dick me around too; they're usually good as gold.
Interesting observation about the Speciale's overall performance. I've not driven one (based my decision on reports and my own positive experience of the 599 GTO vs GTB). There's a recent video of some chap driving his Speciale at the Nurburgring posted on the other site and the car seems awesome.....the driver was exceptional too. Guess I'll have to wait and see.......assuming I see it as promised!
Edited by AndrewD on Monday 9th June 22:40
Chiefly said:
If Ferrari did that, they would fundamentally annoy the original VIP owners of the 599 GTO. High stakes?
I'm sure that they'd all be invited to buy one, as is the norm with Ferrrari. I think I am right in saying that the 599 GTO was the first Ferrari given the GTO nomenclature without any shred of motorsport history behind the model. rubystone said:
Chiefly said:
If Ferrari did that, they would fundamentally annoy the original VIP owners of the 599 GTO. High stakes?
I'm sure that they'd all be invited to buy one, as is the norm with Ferrrari. I think I am right in saying that the 599 GTO was the first Ferrari given the GTO nomenclature without any shred of motorsport history behind the model. 599XX
The 599XX is a car designed for track use only and is not street legal, based on 599 GTB. The rev. limiter is raised to 9000 rpm, with the engine rated for 730 PS (540 kW; 720 hp) at 9000 rpm. Weight is reduced by reducing the weight of the engine unit components, the use of composite materials, and the use of carbon-fiber body parts and brake pads. A new gearbox shift strategy is introduced to cut overall gear change time to 60 ms. Aerodynamics were retuned to give more downforce (280 kg (617 lb) at 200 km/h, 630 kg (1,389 lb) at 300 km/h). The car also includes 29/67 R19 front and 31/71 R19 rear tyres with 19 × 11J wheel rims at the front and 19 × 12J at the rear.
Camlet said:
No shred of motorsport history? Some shred.........
599XX
The 599XX is a car designed for track use only and is not street legal, based on 599 GTB. The rev. limiter is raised to 9000 rpm, with the engine rated for 730 PS (540 kW; 720 hp) at 9000 rpm. Weight is reduced by reducing the weight of the engine unit components, the use of composite materials, and the use of carbon-fiber body parts and brake pads. A new gearbox shift strategy is introduced to cut overall gear change time to 60 ms. Aerodynamics were retuned to give more downforce (280 kg (617 lb) at 200 km/h, 630 kg (1,389 lb) at 300 km/h). The car also includes 29/67 R19 front and 31/71 R19 rear tyres with 19 × 11J wheel rims at the front and 19 × 12J at the rear.
The Enzo FXX - same gig...I'm sure some rich amateur raced it somewhere...but only the MC12 could claim motorsport heritage. I'm talking about the GTO nomenclature....clue is in the 'O' btw 599XX
The 599XX is a car designed for track use only and is not street legal, based on 599 GTB. The rev. limiter is raised to 9000 rpm, with the engine rated for 730 PS (540 kW; 720 hp) at 9000 rpm. Weight is reduced by reducing the weight of the engine unit components, the use of composite materials, and the use of carbon-fiber body parts and brake pads. A new gearbox shift strategy is introduced to cut overall gear change time to 60 ms. Aerodynamics were retuned to give more downforce (280 kg (617 lb) at 200 km/h, 630 kg (1,389 lb) at 300 km/h). The car also includes 29/67 R19 front and 31/71 R19 rear tyres with 19 × 11J wheel rims at the front and 19 × 12J at the rear.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I am just stating that Ferrari cheapened 'GTO' with its use on the 599 which, to my knowledge, has never been raced or rallied (since, after all, that was what the 288 GTO was originally developed for..) anywhere in the world.
But since you seem to be an expert in Goggle (especially US sites from what I can see) feel free to go back on there to see what you can find to prove me wrong
you could argue they cheapened the 'GTO' name with the 599GTO but as far as values of 288GTO were concerned, they've risen and the 599 GTO is a great car.
ferrari are pretty much indestructible at the moment, I think they could plonk the gto badge on pretty much anything and it wouldn't make a massive amount of difference to the market or the brand.
ferrari are pretty much indestructible at the moment, I think they could plonk the gto badge on pretty much anything and it wouldn't make a massive amount of difference to the market or the brand.
rubystone said:
Camlet said:
No shred of motorsport history? Some shred.........
599XX
The 599XX is a car designed for track use only and is not street legal, based on 599 GTB. The rev. limiter is raised to 9000 rpm, with the engine rated for 730 PS (540 kW; 720 hp) at 9000 rpm. Weight is reduced by reducing the weight of the engine unit components, the use of composite materials, and the use of carbon-fiber body parts and brake pads. A new gearbox shift strategy is introduced to cut overall gear change time to 60 ms. Aerodynamics were retuned to give more downforce (280 kg (617 lb) at 200 km/h, 630 kg (1,389 lb) at 300 km/h). The car also includes 29/67 R19 front and 31/71 R19 rear tyres with 19 × 11J wheel rims at the front and 19 × 12J at the rear.
The Enzo FXX - same gig...I'm sure some rich amateur raced it somewhere...but only the MC12 could claim motorsport heritage. I'm talking about the GTO nomenclature....clue is in the 'O' btw 599XX
The 599XX is a car designed for track use only and is not street legal, based on 599 GTB. The rev. limiter is raised to 9000 rpm, with the engine rated for 730 PS (540 kW; 720 hp) at 9000 rpm. Weight is reduced by reducing the weight of the engine unit components, the use of composite materials, and the use of carbon-fiber body parts and brake pads. A new gearbox shift strategy is introduced to cut overall gear change time to 60 ms. Aerodynamics were retuned to give more downforce (280 kg (617 lb) at 200 km/h, 630 kg (1,389 lb) at 300 km/h). The car also includes 29/67 R19 front and 31/71 R19 rear tyres with 19 × 11J wheel rims at the front and 19 × 12J at the rear.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I am just stating that Ferrari cheapened 'GTO' with its use on the 599 which, to my knowledge, has never been raced or rallied (since, after all, that was what the 288 GTO was originally developed for..) anywhere in the world.
But since you seem to be an expert in Goggle (especially US sites from what I can see) feel free to go back on there to see what you can find to prove me wrong
― Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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