Reynolds Steel
Discussion
I have a yearning for a steel framed bike, made to measure, British and something that will last forever. I can't seam to navigate away from Brian Rourke's website at the moment but have a few questions regarding the Reynolds steel he builds his frames with. Does anyone know what the material property differences are between the 853 and the 953 Reynolds steel and can you tell the difference? If you can, does the 953 justifies the higher price tag(+£700 )?
The only information I can find is that the 953 has a higher strength to weight ratio for the same stiffness. So I suppose the 'so what' is the tubes can be made thinner therefore lighter? Does this not then have an effect on how stiff the bike feels?
http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pdf/rtl_steel...
The only information I can find is that the 953 has a higher strength to weight ratio for the same stiffness. So I suppose the 'so what' is the tubes can be made thinner therefore lighter? Does this not then have an effect on how stiff the bike feels?
http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pdf/rtl_steel...
Edited by TSCfree on Thursday 24th April 17:14
TSCfree said:
The only information I can find is that the 953 has a higher strength to weight ratio for the same stiffness. So I suppose the 'so what' is the tubes can be made thinner therefore lighter? Does this not then have an effect on how stiff the bike feels?
It can be made lighter for the same stiffness or stiffer for the same weight. Question is, which will the frame builder choose?Thats why they use triple butted tubes, varying in thickness along the length of each tube. They can be thinner in the middle to save a little weight but beefed up at the welds so you dont notice any flex in the frame. You dont need thick tubing in the middle of the top tube for example, just where it meets the seat tube and the headtube. They apply the same logic to carbon frames, bulk up the areas like headtube and bottom bracket where there will be increased twisting forces but are a little leaner in the centre of the tubes.
I cant see that there is £700 worth of difference between 853 and 953 personally, a custom 853 frame would be stunning.
Dont forget to have a look at Columbus tubing too and, amongst the usual suspects, frame builders like Ricky Feather, Robin Mather and Paulus Quiros
I cant see that there is £700 worth of difference between 853 and 953 personally, a custom 853 frame would be stunning.
Dont forget to have a look at Columbus tubing too and, amongst the usual suspects, frame builders like Ricky Feather, Robin Mather and Paulus Quiros
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 24th April 17:35
Not considered a Roberts, a Chas Roberts?
I don't want to coat off Rourke frames but....not so long ago they were a bit budget. Late eighties and early nineties they were the sort of Ribble of their day.( Sorry to anyone with an 80s Rourke or current Ribble) That said, they were good value but Roberts were in a different league. I had real problems with my back as a Junior and had a frame handmade in 531c, stiff and light but very strong and a perfect fit. Did the Tuesday league at Palace for a few seasons and the track is hard work on a frame. A couple of guys have newer offerings down at Herne Hill velodrome, one is fillet brazed and the feedback is much the same, real quality product. Your choice of course, just unaware that Rourke had made up that much of a gap in this market?
I don't want to coat off Rourke frames but....not so long ago they were a bit budget. Late eighties and early nineties they were the sort of Ribble of their day.( Sorry to anyone with an 80s Rourke or current Ribble) That said, they were good value but Roberts were in a different league. I had real problems with my back as a Junior and had a frame handmade in 531c, stiff and light but very strong and a perfect fit. Did the Tuesday league at Palace for a few seasons and the track is hard work on a frame. A couple of guys have newer offerings down at Herne Hill velodrome, one is fillet brazed and the feedback is much the same, real quality product. Your choice of course, just unaware that Rourke had made up that much of a gap in this market?
ro55a said:
Not considered a Roberts, a Chas Roberts?
I don't want to coat off Rourke frames but....not so long ago they were a bit budget. Late eighties and early nineties they were the sort of Ribble of their day.( Sorry to anyone with an 80s Rourke or current Ribble) That said, they were good value but Roberts were in a different league. I had real problems with my back as a Junior and had a frame handmade in 531c, stiff and light but very strong and a perfect fit. Did the Tuesday league at Palace for a few seasons and the track is hard work on a frame. A couple of guys have newer offerings down at Herne Hill velodrome, one is fillet brazed and the feedback is much the same, real quality product. Your choice of course, just unaware that Rourke had made up that much of a gap in this market?
By eck lad, if it's good enough for Guy Martin, then it'll do for me I don't want to coat off Rourke frames but....not so long ago they were a bit budget. Late eighties and early nineties they were the sort of Ribble of their day.( Sorry to anyone with an 80s Rourke or current Ribble) That said, they were good value but Roberts were in a different league. I had real problems with my back as a Junior and had a frame handmade in 531c, stiff and light but very strong and a perfect fit. Did the Tuesday league at Palace for a few seasons and the track is hard work on a frame. A couple of guys have newer offerings down at Herne Hill velodrome, one is fillet brazed and the feedback is much the same, real quality product. Your choice of course, just unaware that Rourke had made up that much of a gap in this market?
It's only a small detail but I actually like the wrap round seatstay design and the fact it's almost local is a real plus. I haven't fully decided on the build just yet, as with anything the budget will decide. pablo said:
TwistingMyMelon said:
I have a modern (cheaper) Reynolds 520 steel bike, its lovely and feels so solid compared to plastic (sorry I meant carbon fibre) and coke can bikes (Aluminium), riding it on a brooks saddle is like piloting a spitfire.
Meh, I quite like plastic...
TSCfree said:
By eck lad, if it's good enough for Guy Martin, then it'll do for me It's only a small detail but I actually like the wrap round seatstay design and the fact it's almost local is a real plus. I haven't fully decided on the build just yet, as with anything the budget will decide.
Yeah, I thought he had built that fixed for Guys record attempt, by that reckoning it'll be well made. Good luck with whatever you get. I have currently got an Ali, steel and carbon bike. It's funny, cos they are all good for different things but if I had to choose one to do it all??? It's only a small detail but I actually like the wrap round seatstay design and the fact it's almost local is a real plus. I haven't fully decided on the build just yet, as with anything the budget will decide. Rourke is a good choice if you go 953 as he's handy with a TIG torch.
Stainless steels are (in general) stiffer, and will build into a great race frame.
The question is- is this going to be an outright, flat-out race bike that you are happy to bin if you stack it (or it cracks)?
If not, then fillet brazed conventional steel (Reynolds 853, Columbus Spirit, etc etc) might be a better choice as they'll last longer, and can be repaired if the worst happens.
Stainless steels are (in general) stiffer, and will build into a great race frame.
The question is- is this going to be an outright, flat-out race bike that you are happy to bin if you stack it (or it cracks)?
If not, then fillet brazed conventional steel (Reynolds 853, Columbus Spirit, etc etc) might be a better choice as they'll last longer, and can be repaired if the worst happens.
Dammit said:
Rourke is a good choice if you go 953 as he's handy with a TIG torch.
Stainless steels are (in general) stiffer, and will build into a great race frame.
The question is- is this going to be an outright, flat-out race bike that you are happy to bin if you stack it (or it cracks)?
If not, then fillet brazed conventional steel (Reynolds 853, Columbus Spirit, etc etc) might be a better choice as they'll last longer, and can be repaired if the worst happens.
I already have a race frame complete with battle scars. This would be non comp high and dry days bike, although I still want race/sport geometry.Stainless steels are (in general) stiffer, and will build into a great race frame.
The question is- is this going to be an outright, flat-out race bike that you are happy to bin if you stack it (or it cracks)?
If not, then fillet brazed conventional steel (Reynolds 853, Columbus Spirit, etc etc) might be a better choice as they'll last longer, and can be repaired if the worst happens.
If you can afford it I'd go for stainless. I love the look of the unpainted metal & the fact it's a real art to work with. It will rust but is far more resilient than "normal" steel. As mentioned Rourkes will build a made to measure 953 frame (£1800 +). Don't discount Enigma, they're steel offerings are gorgeous & made to measure also (the Extensor is the SS frame...very nice) Condor have a range of steel bikes although they are made in Italy. I've got one of their Super Acciaio's (just built it up with sram red) It's stunning & rides beautifully, feels stiff & taut & weighs noticably less than a mates Madison-Genesis team bike (Reynolds 953). Racey geo, same as the Leggero race bike the Rapha boys race on.
The ultimate (for me) would be an Independant Fabrication SSR-Max. This is a gorgeous thing but they are mega money...still cheaper than a Dogma tho. Dario Pegoretti is widely regarded as master of steel & has built frames for many a TDF winner, I just can't get on with the paint finishes although saying "I ride a Big Leg Emma" has ring to it. Mosquito bikes in London are the importers.
Have a look at my old bike in the "dream bike" thread...British made (Ilkeston) & will last forever, as long as I never get it wet 😉 weighs a ton tho but we were all hard as nails then !
The ultimate (for me) would be an Independant Fabrication SSR-Max. This is a gorgeous thing but they are mega money...still cheaper than a Dogma tho. Dario Pegoretti is widely regarded as master of steel & has built frames for many a TDF winner, I just can't get on with the paint finishes although saying "I ride a Big Leg Emma" has ring to it. Mosquito bikes in London are the importers.
Have a look at my old bike in the "dream bike" thread...British made (Ilkeston) & will last forever, as long as I never get it wet 😉 weighs a ton tho but we were all hard as nails then !
Steel is steel, you can't tell the difference between cheap and expensive tubing.
It's all wonderful.
Best of luck OP. I feel a chat with your frame builder about exactly what it is you intend to do with the bike will be infinitely more useful than worrying what gauge steel he uses.
Just make sure it has clearance for 622/28 tyres AND mudguards.
Oh, and have a quick look at the PX Kaffenback II, it's a stunning deal with the disc brakes.
It's all wonderful.
Best of luck OP. I feel a chat with your frame builder about exactly what it is you intend to do with the bike will be infinitely more useful than worrying what gauge steel he uses.
Just make sure it has clearance for 622/28 tyres AND mudguards.
Oh, and have a quick look at the PX Kaffenback II, it's a stunning deal with the disc brakes.
Hello,
Due to the fact that my modern training bike had finally put it's little feet up in protest to much abuse of many miles in the wet, whilst waiting for a few spares to be sent I pulled out my (Ernie) Clements 753 1980's race bike. This was built for me by hand by an ex British road race champion and Olympian. It is built with a mixture of period Super Record and Durace. In 1985 the frame cost me £750, the bike cost 2 grand to build in total.
The bike is heavy compared to my modern carbon race bike, it's geo is very different. It has a shorter wheelbase compared to modern race bikes, much taller with a shorter top tube. The back triangle is much shorter. It is stiffer than my out and out carbon race bike, will put alot more vibration into your body. When I climb off the 753 after more than 2 hours my back hurts (never happened with 3 531 bikes I owned/raced OR my carbon race bike), however I have never riden anything that comes close to the handling of my 753 bike, it turns in so well and tracks true with good line adjustment.
Having read about 853 and 953 I think they don't quite reach the heights of 753 but 953 is close. Spoil yourself go 953 and get the ultimate steel bike currently available. It will last a lifetime, feel special and handle in a way a carbon bike can't quite match.
It will be heavier, not quite as fast in certain circumstances but will "roll" in a way only a steel bike can.
Due to the fact that my modern training bike had finally put it's little feet up in protest to much abuse of many miles in the wet, whilst waiting for a few spares to be sent I pulled out my (Ernie) Clements 753 1980's race bike. This was built for me by hand by an ex British road race champion and Olympian. It is built with a mixture of period Super Record and Durace. In 1985 the frame cost me £750, the bike cost 2 grand to build in total.
The bike is heavy compared to my modern carbon race bike, it's geo is very different. It has a shorter wheelbase compared to modern race bikes, much taller with a shorter top tube. The back triangle is much shorter. It is stiffer than my out and out carbon race bike, will put alot more vibration into your body. When I climb off the 753 after more than 2 hours my back hurts (never happened with 3 531 bikes I owned/raced OR my carbon race bike), however I have never riden anything that comes close to the handling of my 753 bike, it turns in so well and tracks true with good line adjustment.
Having read about 853 and 953 I think they don't quite reach the heights of 753 but 953 is close. Spoil yourself go 953 and get the ultimate steel bike currently available. It will last a lifetime, feel special and handle in a way a carbon bike can't quite match.
It will be heavier, not quite as fast in certain circumstances but will "roll" in a way only a steel bike can.
Have a look at Dave Yates. Dave was one of the top frame builders back in the day and is still going today. My 20 yr old (guess) 853 mountain bike is still going strong and is a respray short of being perfect.
I was also going to point you in the direction of Ricky Feather who is a modern artisan.
I was also going to point you in the direction of Ricky Feather who is a modern artisan.
I bought this 1998 Serotta CSi frame from LFGSS:
Sadly, it was knackered, from someone using an incorrectly sized seatpost:
So what to do? With an aluminium, titanium or carbon frame the answer is simple- get it in the bin.
But this is steel:
Whole thing is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8131181@N05/sets/721...
And all the work was done by Matt at Talbot Frameworks - www.talbotframeworks.co.uk
Sadly, it was knackered, from someone using an incorrectly sized seatpost:
So what to do? With an aluminium, titanium or carbon frame the answer is simple- get it in the bin.
But this is steel:
Whole thing is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8131181@N05/sets/721...
And all the work was done by Matt at Talbot Frameworks - www.talbotframeworks.co.uk
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