Comfy carbon aero wheels?
Discussion
Can anyone recommend some 50mm ish carbon aero wheels that are not bone jarringly uncomfortable? I currently ride Mavic Kysrium Elites on my Cervelo and love the ride but though I'd try some Zipp 404 Firecrests. I just couldn't get on with them as the ride was awful, same tyres (25mm 4000s) and various pressures. Damn they we're quick though!
I'm reluctant to spend that much again as I took quite a hit on resale, I'm wondering if the £300 ebay specials are worth a try?
I'm reluctant to spend that much again as I took quite a hit on resale, I'm wondering if the £300 ebay specials are worth a try?
You won't get close to the level of comfort of the Mavics you are running, but you will find some wheels more/less comfortable.
I don't think cheap carbon wheels will be comfortable though (could be wrong). To make a wheel strong, stiff and comfortable would require careful carbon layup, which is likely to be expensive.
My limited experience I can say that FFWD wheels are quite uncomfortable, but they are just rebadged Chinese wheels in any case.
I'd suggest some Reynolds wheels.
I don't think cheap carbon wheels will be comfortable though (could be wrong). To make a wheel strong, stiff and comfortable would require careful carbon layup, which is likely to be expensive.
My limited experience I can say that FFWD wheels are quite uncomfortable, but they are just rebadged Chinese wheels in any case.
I'd suggest some Reynolds wheels.
I had a set of 404's and hated them, tried to get on with them but after 6 months sold them to a friend, I now have Mavic Cosmic SLR'S and these are amazing, the best I have been out on. I love the feel of them, can sprint, attack hills, they don't appear to have the drag like the zip's do and they look great.
They get caught by the wind a bit, but then they are deep section wheels, but the look, feel and sound of them make up for it!.
Highly recommend these wheels
They get caught by the wind a bit, but then they are deep section wheels, but the look, feel and sound of them make up for it!.
Highly recommend these wheels
I'm pretty heavy, (cough, I mean 'powerfully built') at over 100kg, I guess they just flex well. I also have some Harry Rowland built mavic open pro rims on ambrosia hubs for my 'winter trainer', they are similarly comfy. I guess carbon just has different properties that dont work for me 
At that weight you probably shouldn't be on carbon wheels? Zipp have a 220lb limit I think, not sure I would want to be on that limit. Not meaning to sounds like a dick, just it might have something to do with it? And I'd not want a wheel to fail on me! (Although one did on the weekend!)
Regarding cosmics being better than zipps? Not sure on that. They should feel similar, and the zipps are likely the faster wheels.
Regarding cosmics being better than zipps? Not sure on that. They should feel similar, and the zipps are likely the faster wheels.
Edited by okgo on Sunday 30th March 21:44
LotusMartin said:
I'm pretty heavy, (cough, I mean 'powerfully built') at over 100kg, I guess they just flex well. I also have some Harry Rowland built mavic open pro rims on ambrosia hubs for my 'winter trainer', they are similarly comfy. I guess carbon just has different properties that dont work for me
You must be putting some serious power down then as TBH carbon Aero wheels won't do much till you hit 20 mph + average speeds. In-fact they are prob making you slower dude.4 hours on ZIPPS ( 404/808 ) Sunday and i feel battered today
Well, all I know is they felt fast and I consistently battered all my strava times on every route I rode them on. Possibly the placebo effect, but they just motored. Problem was my arms, wrists and shoulders were also battererd!! I experimented with various pressures from 70psi up to 100. I normally ride at about 75-80 on 25mm 4000s's
For the record, in case anyone reading this is considering 404 FCs, the actual correct max recommended rider weight is 250b or 114kg so I'm well in side that, I experienced little flex even out of the saddle gunning it.
Probably just stick with the Elites.
For the record, in case anyone reading this is considering 404 FCs, the actual correct max recommended rider weight is 250b or 114kg so I'm well in side that, I experienced little flex even out of the saddle gunning it.
Probably just stick with the Elites.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/video-d...
Apparently it is all in your head. Maybe get one of those padded saddle covers that I see old ladies use.
Apparently it is all in your head. Maybe get one of those padded saddle covers that I see old ladies use.
superkartracer said:
You must be putting some serious power down then as TBH carbon Aero wheels won't do much till you hit 20 mph + average speeds. In-fact they are prob making you slower dude.
Not really true - only time aero wheels are slower is if you live in the alps 
Anyways, without going off topic..There are two types of stiffness you care about. Lets call them lateral and vertical.
Lateral is what you feel when you stand up and sprint. That's when the brakes rub - or not, and you feel the snap off the wheel. Vertical is what matters when you hit a bump, or the road is buzzy.
I don't think you can entirely separate the two, nor am I smart enough at building wheels to tell you how to control each, however: A deep carbon rim is going to be vertically stiff, period. There's a lot of material that will resist the 'hoop' deforming, even before you add spokes. A shallow rim on the other hand can be 'squidged' (for want of a better term) into an oval much more easily. Add in spokes, and basically the higher the spoke tension, the stiffer the wheel will be (in both senses).
So, a zipp 808 isn't going to 'give' much on the bumps. A mavic open pro (old fashioned box) will give more.
The answer for the OP probably lies in a 'hybrid' of the two, like the cosmics. They're not really a 'carbon' wheel, they're a conventional ally hoop, with a carbon fairing. The fairing is light, non structural, and adds very little to the stiffness, it's there for aero only.
Personally I run HEDs (similar), and find no noticable stiffness/harshness increase over conventional wheels. Then again, I also ran a borrowed zipp disk for a while and didn't find that terribly harsh - 90% of the road buzz ought to be absorbed by the tyre..
I don't think this is about compliance as such - the rim won't flex to absorb impacts (it wouldn't be much use if it did). For the same frame - and frame design and layup is IMO much more important - I think it's a combination of three things: crosswind sensitivity, because fighting the bike will wear you out; vibration absorption - so try tubs instead of clinchers; and tyre choice - a 25c will give a plusher ride than a 23c if you exploit the larger volume to run a lower pressure.
upsidedownmark said:
superkartracer said:
You must be putting some serious power down then as TBH carbon Aero wheels won't do much till you hit 20 mph + average speeds. In-fact they are prob making you slower dude.
Not really true - only time aero wheels are slower is if you live in the alps /quote]Done plenty of tests at various powers and the 404/808 combo is slower up hills than running Shamal Ultra's on the R3. They spin-up slower and drag on climbs and are harsh. R3 fitted with Shamal sprints uphill like missile.
Flat/flatish runs the Zipps fly without doubt ( once spinning ).
Cheers.
Yes but unless the hill is one minute long, nobody sprints up hills.
Aero faster than light on most shallow to gentle climbs circa 6%. I've used my time trial bike in a few uphill prologue type events and placed well above where I would have if I had ridden my road bike. And that is a good couple of KG heavier than road, and has a 1kg + disc wheel.
This has been proven time and time again, not sure why anyone is disputing it based on 'feel' when people have based it on science.
Aero faster than light on most shallow to gentle climbs circa 6%. I've used my time trial bike in a few uphill prologue type events and placed well above where I would have if I had ridden my road bike. And that is a good couple of KG heavier than road, and has a 1kg + disc wheel.
This has been proven time and time again, not sure why anyone is disputing it based on 'feel' when people have based it on science.
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