Turbo trainer v 'proper' cycling...

[sidicks]

I'm training for London to Paris (July 2014), having not really cycled for 20 years.

In the last couple of months I've been doing a lot on a turbo trainer - lots of hill program's etc, but haven't ventured out into the road yet for a number of reasons:
- weather hasn't been great
- no quiet roads nearby
- late / dark when I get home from work
- laziness (!)
- I was keen to get some basic cycling fitness before going on any longer rides
- etc

However, I am planning to attend the local monthly bike ride next week, and am totally unsure what to expect.

Is using a turbo trainer (on a credible hilly route) easier / harder than "real world" cycling? If so, how much?!

Thanks

Sidicks

[Gargamel]

No air resistance....

So the answer is it depends how windy it is...

[Shivit]

The trainer is good to get your geometry set up nicely. You need hardcore road miles to get ready for your challenge.

[jodypress]

A turbo trainer is great for when the weather's rubbish but nothing can replace saddle time.

I did L2P in 2009 and would thoroughly recommend it. Fantastic experience. Best tip is to get on the bike and put in the miles.

[sidicks]

jodypress said:

A turbo trainer is great for when the weather's rubbish but nothing can replace saddle time.

I did L2P in 2009 and would thoroughly recommend it. Fantastic experience. Best tip is to get on the bike and put in the miles.

I know! 53km 'hill training' on the turbo trainer today - Something similar tomorrow, hopefully...!!

[sidicks]

I understand that we will need to carry a few things with us on the London to Paris trip - extra layers, reflective vest, extra snacks etc, so will need a fairly small but most importantly lightweight rucksack / backpack (I already have a small bag on the bike for inner tubes, puncture repair kit, tools, etc).

Any recommendations?!

Thanks

[gazza285]

Indoor miles don't count, that is all.

[sidicks]

gazza285 said:

Indoor miles don't count, that is all.

[matt-ITR]

Trainer miles really do not compare much at all and quoting distances or "hills" is completely meaningless.
They have a place in a training program, but can't replicate the feel or difficulty of riding outside.

I'd get out on roads as soon as possible. Also, I'd learn some basic maintenance if you don't already, especially fixing a puncture.
I've been a mechanic for L2P and couldn't believe the number of people who couldn't fix a puncture. It will save you loads of time not having to wait for a mechanic to reach you.

- weather hasn't been great Who says it won't rain on your L2P? Get used to it!
- no quiet roads nearby Paris is mental... get used to heavy traffic. Champs Elise is just insane!

Your other points have some validity, except laziness

Edited by matt-ITR on Sunday 30th March 08:51

[nammynake]

As above get out onto the roads ASAP. Turbo sessions can be really tough and they are very beneficial but doesn't simulate the whole body workout of a real bike. Changing your position on hills and counteracting side winds are not replicated on an indoor trainer.

Forget carrying a rucksack, you'll inevitably pack far more than is needed. A saddle bag and jersey pockets will be sufficient. Learn how much gear you need to carry - again getting in real road miles will teach you this.

And I echo the comments above regarding traffic. Get used to busy roads now as Paris is pretty mental!

[bakerstreet]

matt-ITR said:

Trainer miles really do not compare much at all and quoting distances or "hills" is completely meaningless.
They have a place in a training program, but can't replicate the feel or difficulty of riding outside.

I'd get out on roads as soon as possible. Also, I'd learn some basic maintenance if you don't already, especially fixing a puncture.
I've been a mechanic for L2P and couldn't believe the number of people who couldn't fix a puncture. It will save you loads of time not having to wait for a mechanic to reach you.

- weather hasn't been great Who says it won't rain on your L2P? Get used to it!
- no quiet roads nearby Paris is mental... get used to heavy traffic. Champs Elise is just insane!

Your other points have some validity, except laziness

Edited by matt-ITR on Sunday 30th March 08:51

Agreed. Repairing a puncture should be something that the OP knows how to do.

Turbo miles are useful, but there is no substitute for getting out there and getting the miles in on the road. To be honest you don't really have much time. I'd be aiming for something like 400-500 miles a month on the road. Forget what the weather is like.

If its the 3/four day L2P, then they are based on a 10-11mph average, so you don't have to be Bradley Wiggins to finish it, but at the same time, you want to be at a good state of fitness to still enjoy the ride rather than suffering through it.

If possible, I wouldn't want to be riding with a rucksack at all. You should be able to fit everything you need into rear pockets and a small saddle bag. A rucksack will be uncomfortable on 70-80 mile days (if your doing the three day event). Things like arm and leg warmers pack away very small and work well for mixed conditions. Rain jackets can also pack away very small too.

[okgo]

Turbo training is harder than riding outside. As such when I replace a road session with turbo I cut 25% off the length (though keep intervals or effort the same as road). The lack of inertia makes it harder for nearly all people to replicate outdoor power so therefore it offers better value per minute than riding outside in my view.

No replacement for road miles is not true. Most people can just mentally not do the turbo to the same durations or intensity as outdoor.

I did a lot on the turbo this winter and it helped a lot. But I always like to ride outside if I can but that is not because I value it more in a training sense, it's just more enjoyable for me.

And as for hills, that's what the riser block is for. The only thing I do agree with is you are not working your core as much so of doing lots of only turbo stuff consider maybe some planks and the like to make sure you're not neglecting that.

Of course the real issue is that you need to know what you're measuring effort wise. With a powermeter on obviously I can mimick riding up any hill length I want and I know the effort is just the same (or more as it mostly is harder to produce outdoor power indoors) as it would be outdoors. If you are measuring on heart rate that is fine for slightly longer intervals but it can and is slow to react to shorter sharper stuff.

This debate is had over and over on other forums and the general consensus is that it you can mentally stick it then value gained per hour is indeed greater on the turbo. And many of the best time trial riders I know ride more on the turbo than they do outside.

Edited by okgo on Sunday 30th March 19:24

[TKF]

gazza285 said:

Indoor miles don't count, that is all.

You're right. They count double.

[sidicks]

okgo said:

Turbo training is harder than riding outside. As such when I replace a road session with turbo I cut 25% off the length (though keep intervals or effort the same as road). The lack of inertia makes it harder for nearly all people to replicate outdoor power so therefore it offers better value per minute than riding outside in my view.

No replacement for road miles is not true. Most people can just mentally not do the turbo to the same durations or intensity as outdoor.

I did a lot on the turbo this winter and it helped a lot. But I always like to ride outside if I can but that is not because I value it more in a training sense, it's just more enjoyable for me.

Thanks, this is helpful. I wasn't trying to justify that I don't need to train outside because training inside is "harder", but it is helpful to understand what I'm potentially capable of outside given what I've achieved inside.

okgo said:

And as for hills, that's what the riser block is for. The only thing I do agree with is you are not working your core as much so of doing lots of only turbo stuff consider maybe some planks and the like to make sure you're not neglecting that.

Of course the real issue is that you need to know what you're measuring effort wise. With a powermeter on obviously I can mimick riding up any hill length I want and I know the effort is just the same (or more as it mostly is harder to produce outdoor power indoors) as it would be outdoors. If you are measuring on heart rate that is fine for slightly longer intervals but it can and is slow to react to shorter sharper stuff.

This debate is had over and over on other forums and the general consensus is that it you can mentally stick it then value gained per hour is indeed greater on the turbo. And many of the best time trial riders I know ride more on the turbo than they do outside.

My turbo trainer has an electro-brake, so on a hill program (or GPS mapped route), there is (significant) increased resistance to mimick hills.

I certainly plan to do more outside riding now, but the fact that I can cope with say a 2 hour 50km hill program on a turbo trainer suggests that I can cope with something broadly similar out on the roads.

One of the other things I've found today (during my bike fit at my LBS)was that my rear tyre was very flat (40psi not 110psi), so apparently that has made the turbo training harder that it needed to be!

Sidicks

[okgo]

I should add that although my opinion is just that, this is what my coach suggests, and he is well qualified, so yes, the turbo is a great training tool.

A few guys I know say that as long as their turbo power is increasing then so does the power they can put out when riding outside

[TwistingMyMelon]

Hmmm whilst I agree that a TT is great and often better for targeted specific intense training for more intermediate and advanced levels , in your case (OP) I would argue actual road miles are more important.

As others have said, TT just emulates the fitness aspect, not all the other variables you experience on long rides just as punctures, headwinds, rain, rain, minor mechanical issues etc.

I ride with some guys who train a lot on TTs and spinning classes, they absolutely fly on the first hour , 3 hours in and they are at the back of the pack and admit that their training programme fails to emulate stamina.

Then there is the aspect of road sense and confidence with cars passing closely and descending also takes time to master, especially if riding in a pack.

Working out what clothes to wear in different conditions and kit to take on rides takes a while to get the hang of. You don't realise you need a specific tool until something breaks and you are 40 miles from home with a flat phone battery

I'm not saying the TT training isn't beneficial but at a beginner level, actual fitness is only one side of the coin

[sidicks]

TwistingMyMelon said:

Hmmm whilst I agree that a TT is great and often better for targeted specific intense training for more intermediate and advanced levels , in your case (OP) I would argue actual road miles are more important.

As others have said, TT just emulates the fitness aspect, not all the other variables you experience on long rides just as punctures, headwinds, rain, rain, minor mechanical issues etc.

I ride with some guys who train a lot on TTs and spinning classes, they absolutely fly on the first hour , 3 hours in and they are at the back of the pack and admit that their training programme fails to emulate stamina.

Then there is the aspect of road sense and confidence with cars passing closely and descending also takes time to master, especially if riding in a pack.

Working out what clothes to wear in different conditions and kit to take on rides takes a while to get the hang of. You don't realise you need a specific tool until something breaks and you are 40 miles from home with a flat phone battery

I'm not saying the TT training isn't beneficial but at a beginner level, actual fitness is only one side of the coin

Yes, thanks for the advice. As I stated, I was just keen to understand where my TT would put me in terms of on road fitness - I accept that road cycling provides a huge number of other factors which makes it essential to do more road cycling going forward!

[nsi]

Camelbak ruck sacks are pretty good. They obviously have space for a drink but actually another good feature is the way the back is designed. They have models where it spaces the bag off your back so you still get plenty of airflow on your back between you and the bag to help with comfort.

[anonymous-user]

gazza285 said:

Indoor miles don't count, that is all.

Thats what they said, until I overtook them last year

[okgo]

I've done 3 hour turbo sessions, your mates would have stamina if they did longer sessions.